Circle Studios Birmingham - studio build/refurb

[bassjam]

Because on some of your Facebook pics, the left hand speaker has its mid to the outside?

[Trev@Circle]

Ah. Old picture. Thomas immediately picked me up on it. I'm sure I mentioned it in this thread somewhere.

[Trev@Circle]

There's been lots going on with the electrics this week. Splitting the buildings between the clean and the dirty power boards was finished, a (dirty) sub board was put in for the air-conditioning and we've tried a bunch of different light fittings for the corridor. I think we finally settled on one! Pictures soon.

Also, one of the production rooms with the working title "The White Room" got batoned ready for rockwool and plasterboard. This pic was taken half way through that process:

[stolenlogic]

That looks like an amazing studio

[Trev@Circle]

Originally Posted by stolenlogic

That looks like an amazing studio

Thanks man!

Ramps were supposed to be concreted in today but the concrete didnt show up so the groundworks guys just left again! Oh well. I guess I can continue wiring my patchbays...

[Trev@Circle]

Originally Posted by Trev@Circle

We've been doing some work in the non-technical areas too. The old office was pulled down in part to make way for the production rooms. Here's one before we started cleaning up the remaining space:



After the cleanup:



and after the new walls and ceiling have been built and plastered:

Office is almost done:

[emearg_s]

I bet you can't wait and just sit in the office with cupper and relax And not have to worry about building work !! then agin you probably be worrying about how to pay for building work But its such fab place I sure they be banging on the door to work there!

PS Enjoy knotting spaghetti or thats how feel's wire patch bays LOL

[Trev@Circle]

Too right. I cannot wait!

Two types of light for your delectation today. First a shot of the wall lights I settled on for the corridor:



Continuing the circular theme, the second is a first picture of the sky-light which is appearing above the soundlock:

[Trev@Circle]

The 'white room' got a door frame:



a solid core door sandwiched with limp mass membrane and mdf:



and eventually, a door:



(But not handles, obv...). Anyway, here's a cross section:

[peelproductions]

Hi Trev,
John here from New Zealand.
Just a question on your power supply. I see in a few photos you have clean and dirty power marked up.
How did you " clean" up the power? With an isolating transformer hard wired in the sub board? Or is it just a normal power leg coming from the sub that won't have air con etc on it?
That's mate,
Johng

[Trev@Circle]

No probs matey.

Because we have essentially knocked two buildings together we have two separate supplies. We have designated one clean (control room and live rooms) and the other dirty aircon, kitchen, office, lounge, corridors etc. if we find the clean isn't clean enough we'll consider a transformer at that point though best advice seems to be suck it and see before throwing money at it. Hope this helps.
T

Originally Posted by peelproductions

Hi Trev,
John here from New Zealand.
Just a question on your power supply. I see in a few photos you have clean and dirty power marked up.
How did you " clean" up the power? With an isolating transformer hard wired in the sub board? Or is it just a normal power leg coming from the sub that won't have air con etc on it?
That's mate,
Johng

[Analogue Kid]

Hi Trev

Give me a PM over this - taking a feed off a phase does not mean its clean-

I can tell you from experience mate when somebody on our estate had a faulty 3phase pressure washer it completly took out our board and more it was a complete disaster for 4 business's mine included.

You 100% need to isolate it - if you don't you could find your desk power supplies and more in pieces as well as clients gear hanging off it :-(

We can help you in this regard if you need any advice mate - just PM me .

Best


Andy

[Analogue Kid]

Trev

I forgot to add - filtering and additional protection as well is required.

We have the details of the gear we used to achieve all of this -

Either give me or Greg a mail -

You've got shed loads of money hanging off these circuits mate -

Be really bad news if you lost critical pieces of kit for the sake of a few extra quid spent ???

Just my opinion mate .

Best


Andy

[Northward]

Originally Posted by Analogue Kid

Hi Trev

Give me a PM over this - taking a feed off a phase does not mean its clean-

I can tell you from experience mate when somebody on our estate had a faulty 3phase pressure washer it completly took out our board and more it was a complete disaster for 4 business's mine included.

You 100% need to isolate it - if you don't you could find your desk power supplies and more in pieces as well as clients gear hanging off it :-(

We can help you in this regard if you need any advice mate - just PM me .

Best


Andy

Hey Andy,

I never believed in any of these fancy & strangely expensive systems that some install. If you want to isolate from things like thunder or other very (very) unlikely accidents it's a tiny little breaker sized add-on to include in your electrical cabinet. 150 Euros. Move on.

We've installed quite a few studios on almost completely standard systems - but with a very good grounding and proper planning - and so far never had a single problem. Ever. In some cases in industrial areas & shared buildings. Most of these consoles have well protected PSU circuits no matter what and include some filters, too.

All you need is a good electrician and to make sure you have the right amount of power available.

The rest: don't fix it if it's not broken.

Take care,

[bassjam]

Originally Posted by Northward

Hey Andy,

I never believed in any of these fancy & strangely expensive systems that some install. If you want to isolate from things like thunder or other very (very) unlikely accidents it's a tiny little breaker sized add-on to include in your electrical cabinet. 150 Euros. Move on.

We've installed quite a few studios on almost completely standard systems - but with a very good grounding and proper planning - and so far never had a single problem. Ever. In some cases in industrial areas & shared buildings. Most of these consoles have well protected PSU circuits no matter what and include some filters, too.

All you need is a good electrician and to make sure you have the right amount of power available.

The rest: don't fix it if it's not broken.

Take care,

Good grounding? As in the shared TN-C-S system?

[bassjam]

The thing is, it's not just about protecting the gear from accidents. It's about providing a completely clean neutral that your audio gear can take its 0v reference from. In a TN-C-S earth system if someone in the vicinity has unbalanced phases then there will be a potential and harmonics on the neutral thus increasing noise floor.

If you have 2 supplies in one building then you have to cross bond the neutrals and earths so that the RCD's will trip in fault conditions. This means that any harmonics created by earth leakage on the "dirty" side caused by cheap switch mode power supplies, variable drive motors or large inductive load lighting will contaminate the earth and neutral on the "clean" side.

By using a relatively cheap isolating transformer and earthing grid you can have a TT system for the clean power requirements. This will then have no contact with the PME and thus no risk of harmonics or potential from unbalanced phases.

Only downside is the fact that you have to have 30mA RCBO's on every socket circuit and a 100mA RCD incomer on your clean board which is quite expensive.

[Analogue Kid]

Excuse me

"move on " ??????

I was only trying to help ... Why the hostility ??????

Read what Greg has posted and make a comment about that if you will please .... ?

What does this sound like a guy talking nonsense ??

All I was doing was giving some help and advice from past experience to somebody building a studio like us ???

And as for the quite amusing comment about strange and fancy systems being installed by some.... What meaning us ????? Obviously because we have these installed ????

Well ...... See the thing is all your other experiences are not Circle studios experiences are they... They can't be ..... Trevor's place isn't built yet..no two places are the same ....and just because hardly anybody you know has had no problems doesn't mean Trevor's place will have no problems ... This is completly banal if you ask me .....

My opinion which lets be honest means absolutely nothing except of course I too am also building a studio like Trevor and I felt it necessary to spend money on the incoming mains and thought doing everything possible to protect equipment and HUMAN LIFE and investing in something that fell within The 17th Edition UK wiring regs was money well spent... You obviously have a different approach to things ...... ?????

That's cool......

I wish I had spent 150 euros on our mains systems protection..... Could of had enough over to go on a nice holiday with family.....damn

Tell you what advise Trevor on how best you think things should be done like obviously you have ..... Your an experienced guy right ?? So Trevor's got nothing to worry about ?


"if it ain't broke don't fix it "


Excellent advice Sir :-)


Andy

Originally Posted by Northward

Hey Andy,

I never believed in any of these fancy & strangely expensive systems that some install. If you want to isolate from things like thunder or other very (very) unlikely accidents it's a tiny little breaker sized add-on to include in your electrical cabinet. 150 Euros. Move on.

We've installed quite a few studios on almost completely standard systems - but with a very good grounding and proper planning - and so far never had a single problem. Ever. In some cases in industrial areas & shared buildings. Most of these consoles have well protected PSU circuits no matter what and include some filters, too.

All you need is a good electrician and to make sure you have the right amount of power available.

The rest: don't fix it if it's not broken.

Take care,

[Northward]

Originally Posted by Analogue Kid

Excuse me

"move on " ??????

I was only trying to help ... Why the hostility ??????

Read what Greg has posted and make a comment about that if you will please .... ?

What does this sound like a guy talking nonsense ??

All I was doing was giving some help and advice from past experience to somebody building a studio like us ???

And as for the quite amusing comment about strange and fancy systems being installed by some.... What meaning us ????? Obviously because we have these installed ????

Well ...... See the thing is all your other experiences are not Circle studios experiences are they... They can't be ..... Trevor's place isn't built yet..no two places are the same ....and just because hardly anybody you know has had no problems doesn't mean Trevor's place will have no problems ... This is completly banal if you ask me .....

My opinion which lets be honest means absolutely nothing except of course I too am also building a studio like Trevor and I felt it necessary to spend money on the incoming mains and thought doing everything possible to protect equipment and HUMAN LIFE and investing in something that fell within The 17th Edition UK wiring regs was money well spent... You obviously have a different approach to things ...... ?????

That's cool......

I wish I had spent 150 euros on our mains systems protection..... Could of had enough over to go on a nice holiday with family.....damn

Tell you what advise Trevor on how best you think things should be done like obviously you have ..... Your an experienced guy right ?? So Trevor's got nothing to worry about ?


"if it ain't broke don't fix it "


Excellent advice Sir :-)


Andy

You need to chill out.

I have no idea what system you've installed. It was not a comment aimed at anyone in particular.

If there is ever a problem in Trevor's studio electrical system, then it will be fixed.

So far there are none and I expect it to remain that way. And the electrician is doing a good job - his job.

I just believe that a well planned system thoroughly checked is just fine. If the electrician thinks there is a need for any particular safety measure or device I will listen to him and let him do his job.

What else do you want me to say?

Be well,

[Analogue Kid]

I'm actually seriously chilled knowing we have covered everything we could possibly have and have left nothing to chance-

And as for your electrician ? If I gave my opinion on his install then the post would rightfully be removed - I've already had a ticking off for using bad language :-(

I wish Trevor all the best in his venture -

We can leave it there .

Cheers


Andy

[Trev@Circle]

Wow! That caused a controversy!

Thanks for all of your thoughts and concerns - though a bit unfair to criticise the electrician for the install when there have been no pictures whatsoever since it has been completed - I'll pick up with Greg offline about what you guys did and then discuss with the electrical contractor.

Indeed, let's take any more discussion on this offline so we don't ruin the thread further. Thanks.

[peelproductions]

Last time I ask a power question around here!!! LOL
JohnG

[Arthur Stone]

Just wanted to say one of the advantages of being able to read these studio-build threads (and the comments) is that it gives us newbies an idea of the hard work and planning that goes into a proper recording studio.

I realised that it's unlikely I will ever afford the cost, or have the skills, to achieve this.

I'm sincerely grateful that these studios exist and that, when so many of the established names are closing, you are carrying on the tradition and the knowledge that goes with it.

So, Gearslutz studio owners and builders I salute you all. I won't be wasting my time and money chasing the moon; I'll be spending it in your studios.

[Trev@Circle]

Thanks for the positive vibes Arthur! Appreciate it!

Originally Posted by Arthur Stone

Just wanted to say one of the advantages of being able to read these studio-build threads (and the comments) is that it gives us newbies an idea of the hard work and planning that goes into a proper recording studio.

I realised that it's unlikely I will ever afford the cost, or have the skills, to achieve this.

I'm sincerely grateful that these studios exist and that, when so many of the established names are closing, you are carrying on the tradition and the knowledge that goes with it.

So, Gearslutz studio owners and builders I salute you all. I won't be wasting my time and money chasing the moon; I'll be spending it in your studios.

[Arthur Stone]

Originally Posted by Trev@Circle

Thanks for the positive vibes Arthur! Appreciate it!

YVW Trev - when I saw the desk and outboard the penny dropped. I'm sure there's a lot of home-studio guys who are realising that even if we can afford/maintain the kit our room sound still sucks and doubling as artist & engineer kills the performance and creative flow.

[emearg_s]

Well said Arthur !!!!

The main thing I lurnt of these builds Is just how much work the owners are putting in them self not just time and money. But hart and Sole even blood, sweat and tears goes into make these places, there not just writing checks there working there socks laying floors painting, wiring and proberly make the Tea too !

[Trev@Circle]

Thanks guys. Sticking with the positive vibe, I finally got my racks wired in! Here's one of them:



TBH, in the new room, my old rack looks a bit tired. I suspect I'll be needing new furniture at some point pretty soon... (there should be an emoticon for money being thrown into a giant pit )

Edit. Here's one:

[Syncamorea]

Originally Posted by Trev@Circle

(there should be an emoticon for money being thrown into a giant pit )

That should be the Gearslutz logo!

[emearg_s]

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3646/3...908c89b5d3.jpg

Sorry I can't work out how to post this as a image !

And Stop worrying about the details its the sound that maters and as long your gear works, you end up re-jigging some stuff as you think up beter placement as you get used to using the new layout ! So going all out for prefect finish is waste of time get running, then work out what right and what needs tweaking then in 6 months when its how you want it get all repainted and polish up

[Trev@Circle]

Thanks guys.

Here's the formwork for the new gear ramps which we are putting into the building. On a practical level they mean that all studios in the building can be reached without lifting gear up steps. What's more it means the whole place complies with disabled access requirements. We've used polystyrene for the formwork so that it can be scraped out once the concrete has gone off, thereby maintaining the isolation between all rooms:

[Trev@Circle]

Here's the concrete going in: