New WireWorld construction

[mwagener]

Got some of the racks in

pic 1 is one of the two 40 space equipment racks in the front right corner of the control room, actually in the picture is just the cable holder and the slide out bars, the rack looks similar to the guitar rack in the next picture but provides for slide out and turn.
The left rack is going to be housing all the mic pres (only 7 feet to the mic panel in the tracking room on the other side of the yet-to-be-built wall). The other one will hold the patchbay, BigBen, all converters and all reverbs with a remote, KSP8, 2 TC M6000 and two Bricasti (eventually). The racks will be installed 12" above the floor to make room for the cable to get out of the pipes. The pipes will be cut off right above the floor.

pic 2 This is going to be the guitar amp rack on the left side of the control room. There will be a patch bay for amp outs to speakers, so we can switch speakers from the control room. Maybe I can incorporate one of those speaker selectors they have in HiFi stores.

[mwagener]

I put in the guitar rack today.

pic 1 closed wall

pic 2 rough opening front

pic 3 rough opening back

pic 4 almost done front

pic 5 the back is done

The speaker cables will be going up through the ceiling and the second floor of the lounge building, then back down into the tracking room to a speaker panel.

[mwagener]

...and we now have a new entrance to the kitchen. The fridge is built into were the old door was. The hallway behind the fridge is now storage and the back of the guitar rack.

The reddish brownish color on the walls in the kitchen was not my idea, it was here when we moved in. I'll take care of the decor down the line, gotta get the studio done first.

[goatie]

Originally Posted by mwagener

Got some of the racks in

pic 1 is one of the two 40 space equipment racks in the front right corner of the control room, actually in the picture is just the cable holder and the slide out bars, the rack looks similar to the guitar rack in the next picture but provides for slide out and turn.
The left rack is going to be housing all the mic pres (only 7 feet to the mic panel in the tracking room on the other side of the yet-to-be-built wall). The other one will hold the patchbay, BigBen, all converters and all reverbs with a remote, KSP8, 2 TC M6000 and two Bricasti (eventually). The racks will be installed 12" above the floor to make room for the cable to get out of the pipes. The pipes will be cut off right above the floor.

pic 2 This is going to be the guitar amp rack on the left side of the control room. There will be a patch bay for amp outs to speakers, so we can switch speakers from the control room. Maybe I can incorporate one of those speaker selectors they have in HiFi stores.

2 x 40 spaces
That's gonna be pretty when filled up

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by goatie

2 x 40 spaces
That's gonna be pretty when filled up

Those are already full. There is another 120 space rack in the back of the room, which is about half full by now. Oh the pressure of having to get more gear Hey, maybe I should break down and finally get a 500 rack...

[goatie]

Originally Posted by mwagener

Those are already full. There is another 120 space rack in the back of the room, which is about half full by now. Oh the pressure of having to get more gear Hey, maybe I should break down and finally get a 500 rack...

120 ... you're close to pulling a delcosmos

[5down1up]

Originally Posted by mwagener

There is another 120 space rack in the which is about half full by now.... and finally get a 500 rack...

if 120 isnt enough, 500 could be alright

[G-Spot]

Originally Posted by mwagener

My main objective is to create a comfortable, creative environment to record and mix music. The studio by itself will not be for hire, so I don't have to make the technical end user friendly, I just have to make it Michael friendly, in the old place I never labeled the patchbay in 12 years

Hi Michael,
I'm following your "diary" quite closely! I come here every day (morning and evening) to see the developments . Very nice indeed!

It just came to my mind the other day, that with so much amazing outboard, maybe the SSL Matrix would have been a nice solution...
OK, it is only a 16 track console, deprived of Mic pres and EQs (no G-bus compressor and no 5.1), but for the price of the AWS I guess you could have 2 Matrix + 4 X-Racks completely filled with EQs and Comps of the 4K and 9K series...
With the Matrix Remote Software, you can assign any peace of gear connected to the Matrix to any of its tracks, or even set presets of chains of gear (mic pre+Eq+comp) that you can recall and set to any track, and all that without having to touch a cable... no patchbay needed...
But anyway, I think it's too late now , and the AWS is definitely an amazing desk !

For almost two years now that I'm trying to go to one of your workshops, but something always happens that ruins my plans... this time, if there's a Workshop with Extreme, if it happens in your new studio... count me in!!!! Nothing would stop me this time! (unless you say "no"... )

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by G-Spot

...OK, it is only a 16 track console, deprived of Mic pres and EQs (no G-bus compressor and no 5.1)...

There ya go, that's already enough of an argument FOR the AWS ...and with todays requirements for stems, I need at least 24 (or 12 stereo) stems

Originally Posted by G-Spot

For almost two years now that I'm trying to go to one of your workshops, but something always happens that ruins my plans... this time, if there's a Workshop with Extreme, if it happens in your new studio... count me in!!!! Nothing would stop me this time! (unless you say "no"... )

The Extreme workshop is still somewhat up in the air. I talked to Nuno and the band and they all thought it was a great idea, but you know how reality (touring, schedules) sometimes doesn't play along. The next workshop will be scheduled as soon as I have an idea about when the studio will be done, but it will be a "normal" workshop and it's already filling up quickly with reservations. The Extreme workshop, if it happens, will be later in the year, maybe in the summer.

[G-Spot]

Originally Posted by mwagener

There ya go, that's already enough of an argument FOR the AWS ...and with todays requirements for stems, I need at least 24 (or 12 stereo) stems

Yes, very true... the fact that the Matrix only has 16 tracks actually putt me off also... I really like the concept but... yes... 24 tracks is kind of a professional standard for a console...

Originally Posted by mwagener

The Extreme workshop is still somewhat up in the air. I talked to Nuno and the band and they all thought it was a great idea, but you know how reality (touring, schedules) sometimes doesn't play along. The next workshop will be scheduled as soon as I have an idea about when the studio will be done, but it will be a "normal" workshop and it's already filling up quickly with reservations. The Extreme workshop, if it happens, will be later in the year, maybe in the summer.

OK, I don't think I can wait so long ... I'll keep an eye on your website and see if I'll attend what you call a "normal" workshop .

Got more picks?

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by AQUA

@ Michael:
Thank you for this superb thread. It's extremely interesting to follow what's going on. Also hats off to your contribution to the CAL MW1 Studio Tool. I've never done re-amping before - what a jump start ;-) Daumen hoch! Michael, may I inquire why you went for the TT patchbay format? -- Beste Grüße

I have been using 1/4" TRS and had some problems over the years and it takes up less space

[mwagener]

Well, for now the studio construction is on hold or at least on a break. I have to finish 3 projects which can't wait any longer, so I will be working at the "old" facility during January and the beginning of February. There will still be work done here and there and I'll post if there is something new, but for the most part, since I'd like to be around when work is done, it might have to wait.

everybody have a great holiday season and

[goatie]

We'll be waiting for new pics

In the meanwhile, have fun with the AWS

Happy hollidays

[Geoff Firebaugh]

Wow, that looks amazing. As a part time gearslut, former carpenter/cabinet builder, I get to observe with two different perspectives. really cool. What are you floating the walls on? I might've missed that. I'm planning on building a small project room when I buy a new house this summer. Just trying to pickup whatever tips I can.

Cheers,
geoff

btw. I used to work out in mt. juliet building coach interiors. Can't tell you how many hours I logged listening to records you mixed while I was at that shop.

[mwagener]

Hello Geoff

The walls in the control room are not floated. The inside walls in the tracking room will most likely be sitting on rubber strips, just to close any gaps between the footer and the concrete. I have to learn some more about floating walls

Did you work with Jamie Simmons at the Coach company?

[Geoff Firebaugh]

Different company, I worked at superior on industrial park road (i think). I didn't work with jamie, but I did play with his brother Paulie during a short stint with The Legendary Shack Shakers, Small world.


I was thinking about your issue with the 1/2" v 5/8"drywall, and sound transferrence. When I was doing busses, I put small (obviously) recording facilities in some busses for different artists. We used this rubberized lead mat that came on a 4 foot wide roll. It's heavy as hell, but we covered every surface with that stuff, and it makes a difference. My thought was that you could feasibly hang your first layer of drywall, than a layer of that rubberized lead (its only 1/4" thick) then add your second layer of drywall. you would be at approximately the same thickness (1 1/4) as you wear planning, plus you'd have much more sound damping than with double thick drywall alone. If you like, I can get ahold of the supply guy at the bus shop and find out where they get it and what it costs.


Cheers,
geoff

[mwagener]

Thank you Geoff

I think there might be a misunderstanding. There will be two layers of 5/8" drywall all around the tracking room (walls and ceiling - room inside a room, footer on the rubber stuff) with Green Glue in between, then a 6" air gap, then another stud construction which is open towards the inside walls and has faced R-19 in it. Outside of the building we used 2 layers of 1/2" OSB (that actually was supposed to be 2 layers of 5/8, but the builders messed up, that might be what you're thinking of). This is the area on the far side of the picture.

In the control room, where it's not that loud, it's just going to be the two outside layers of 1/2" OSB then unfaced R-19 in the 2X4 stud construction and then 2 layers of 5/8" drywall. I don't think I am going to use Green Glue on the control room walls towards the outside, just the wall towards the tracking room. (see to the right of the picture - no insulation yet). The uninsulated parts around the loading door and the entry door on the left will be filled with unfaced R-19 and covered with two layers of 5/8" drywall. Those are the sound locks.

The light line on the ground is the split between the tracking and control room. There will be a wall on either side and they are going to have the window(s) in it.

Anybody have an idea on how to hold the unfaced R-19 inside the 2X4 studs until the drywall goes on? Uncompressed the R-19 is about 6" thick but gets stuffed into a 3.5" space, so it will try to get out. Anybody know of any plastic strips or something I could tack over the insulation? The problem is, that it's all short strips of insulation because of the stringers glued to the outside wall, pain in the butt to install the insulation into.

[Doublehelix]

I have no idea what they are called, but you can buy bundles of small metal rods (very thin) that are the same width as most common stud widths (16", 24", etc.) that get wedged between the studs to hold the insulation in place. You just pop them in, it takes a second for each one, and they work pretty well. I used a bunch of them for my ceiling. They are really cheap as well. I bought a small bundle at Lowe's for a couple of bucks.

[badboymusic]

Originally Posted by mwagener

Anybody have an idea on how to hold the unfaced R-19 inside the 2X4 studs until the drywall goes on? Uncompressed the R-19 is about 6" thick but gets stuffed into a 3.5" space, so it will try to get out. Anybody know of any plastic strips or something I could tack over the insulation?

Michael,

I just had the same situation to figure out. They make a nylon strapping for holding insulation UP inside floor joists so it doesn't fall down into the crawlspace. You staple it to the face or just inside the wall studs; it's cheap, quick and works great. I ran a strip of it across the bottom and top of each batt and also in an X pattern where needed. Home Depot sells it. It looks like a big roll of 2" gray masking tape (minus the sticky of course).

Cheers,
Bad Boy

[RonT]

Originally Posted by mwagener

Thank you Geoff



Anybody have an idea on how to hold the unfaced R-19 inside the 2X4 studs until the drywall goes on? Uncompressed the R-19 is about 6" thick but gets stuffed into a 3.5" space, so it will try to get out. Anybody know of any plastic strips or something I could tack over the insulation? The problem is, that it's all short strips of insulation because of the stringers glued to the outside wall, pain in the butt to install the insulation into.

Isn't this a BAD thing? 6" Insulation in a 3 1/2" Opening will not allow the Insulation the space it needs to work properly! I dont know much but I think that I am correct about this?

Anyone care to chime in?

[djui5]

Originally Posted by RonT

Anyone care to chime in?

From what I understand, yes, this is a bad thing smashing insulation.

[mwagener]

Isn't 703 basically "smashed insulation" ? And wouldn't the extra material create more mass and in turn burn off more energy ?. If you are right, and you very well might be, would that mean that thinner insulation is more effective? Or is there a set amount of insulation-to-air ratio for a particular wall thickness ?

[tazman]

If using the insulation to "insulate", then removing the air it needs (i.e. smashing into a smaller place) is bad as a large portion of the thermal insulation comes from the air. OTOH if using it for soundproofing, I'm not sure if even compressed it would provide enough mass to make a difference. If using it as a membrane (bass trap), then I don't think it will act as such if inside of a wall.

Acousticians... please chime in

[BlueSprocket]

My understanding is that 703 is a little different than just "smashed insulation." Its made specifically to be a denser material so that you can get greater efficiency in a smaller space (i.e. commercial construction where you need as much space in the wall but still need thermal/acoustic isolation from room to room).

There are quite a few additives in Rockwool (703) insulation that you don't get in "the pink stuff". I've been told by a few people who sell insulation that compressing the pink stuff lowers its efficiency in insulating a space. Sadly I've never seen lab data to support whether or not this lowers the sound dampening capabilities. Air space in a wall can sometimes be your best friend in ateentuating sound room to room (i.e. Sheetrock/Insulation/Air space/insulation, sheetrock). Compressing the pink stuff would eliminate the "airspace".

[studjo]

no real designer around here?

[jayfrigo]

Post a question over in the "studio building / acoustics" sub forum. Various densities accomplish different things for different applications, and thermal and acoustic properties aren't always in sync, so beware of what you hear from HVAC guys. Also, using insulation to damp the resonance in a double leaf system is different from using it for bass or mid/high absorption on room surfaces.

You can check gas flow resistance figures, and search for available experimental data online that compares performance for different densities and resistances. Different materials will exhibit different behavior for what may seem to be similar composition; in other words, one example of semi-rigid fiberglass board may be functionally nearly equivalent to a more floppy batt of mineral wool, so don't judge a book by its cover. The guys over in the other sub-forum will talk your ears off about this if you let them!

[JX3]

Hi Michael, It really looks great! I am so happy for you!

John Christmas

[PhiloBeddoe]

Very similar question asked to Owens Corning "ask the Pink Panther":

Save Energy: Question: Is my reading of the compression chart correct?


Elizabeth writes from Sacramento, California: "I hired a contractor to insulate and sheetrock the garage in my 1960s home. The contract specified R-13 in the walls (2x4 stud) and R-19 in the ceiling (2x8 joists). He made a mistake and put R-19 in the walls. He completed the sheetrock before I discovered the mistake. I know that if you compress insulation, you lose R-value. From the compression chart on the Owens Corning website, it appears that R-19 compressed into a 2x4 cavity will achieve R-13. Is this correct? I noticed that the insulation seemed bumpy and not smooth and straight. By packing insulation so tightly, will the unevenness cause even further loss of R-value? Or, will the insulation even out over time? Do I need to worry about moisture problems, since there is little airflow? What about buckling or warping of the drywall or outside siding, due to too much pressure from the insulation?" Answer: You are correct! The resulting R-value from compressing R-19 fiberglass insulation into a 2 x 4 stud wall will be R-13. Without seeing the installation it is hard to say whether the R 19 insulation will exert enough pressure on the sheetrock or siding to cause damage but I don't expect any and you should have no further loss of R-value. In addition, compression does not contribute to moisture problems. Generally, airflow is not necessary in walls. We do recommend the use of Kraft- faced insulation. You may need to confirm with the installer that material with a Kraft vapor ******er was installed with the Kraft facing installed toward the warm-in-winter side of the wall.

[mwagener]

I'm not really concerned about the thermal R value rather than the sound transmission factor. The volume in the control room will be similar to a normal living room, so it's not really that critical anyway, as long as there is no negative effect by compressing the R-19.

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by JX3

Hi Michael, It really looks great! I am so happy for you!

John Christmas

Hello John

Thank you. I'll see you when we do the Nova walls