Airshow Mastering New Studio Construction

[maikol]

Hello Mike,

Just a question:

I see that you plan to use Dunlavy's for your new rooms.
IIRC, the company doesn't exist anymore?

Is it easy to maintain those beauties (finding parts and so on)?

I know those are still some of the best speakers in the world, and they can be found pretty cheap second hand, so i'm just wondering...

BTW i'm in Europe so it might be harder here to find parts and qualified techs for them...

Thanks and all the best for those new rooms!

Michael

[shaneoconnor]

need an assistant that will bring in work? i would move down there for the that!

[Airshow Mike]

Michael,
Thanks for the question.

Yes, I will be using Dunlavy's in my room and Charlie Pilzer will most likely be using Duntech Sovereigns for his main L,C,R setup and Dunlavy IV's for his rears.

Both Dunlavy's and Duntech's were designed by John Dunlavy. The Dunlavy company is out of business and sadly, John Dunlavy passed away a few years ago. The Duntech company, however, is still in business, and is still producing speakers. The designs are fairly similar between the two brands, though some prefer one over the other. They do sound different.

As far as maintenance, we have been fortunate and have not had to replace any drivers. Thankfully, the replacement drivers are rather inexpensive, though, as time goes by they are harder to find. That being said, the issue with replacing the drivers is that part of John Dunlavy's design concept was to match the drivers by hand at the factory so a given pair of speakers would be as identical to each other as possible. Having said this, I do know a few folks who had to replace some drivers and they reported no problems afterwards. It is simply a fact of life that drivers wear out or get overdriven. If I were looking for another pair of Dunalvy's, I would try to get a pair with original parts (there are still plenty available second hand) but if I had to replace the tweeters it wouldn't be the end of the world IN MY OPINION.

I don't think you will have any problem finding replacement drivers in Europe. I can't name the companies off the top of my head, but you can certainly find them on the internet.

Also, thank you for your kind words about the studio.

Feel free to PM me if I can answer any more questions regarding the Dunlavy's.


Best Regards,

-Mike

Originally Posted by maikol

Hello Mike,

Just a question:

I see that you plan to use Dunlavy's for your new rooms.
IIRC, the company doesn't exist anymore?

Is it easy to maintain those beauties (finding parts and so on)?

I know those are still some of the best speakers in the world, and they can be found pretty cheap second hand, so i'm just wondering...

BTW i'm in Europe so it might be harder here to find parts and qualified techs for them...

Thanks and all the best for those new rooms!

Michael

[american]

Hi,

why did you choose to use metal studs instead of wooden ones? Any pros or cons?

thanks for a great thread!!!

[glassmaster]

Originally Posted by american

Hi,

why did you choose to use metal studs instead of wooden ones? Any pros or cons?

thanks for a great thread!!!

I'm pretty sure (but not certain) that it's a building code thing. When we built the Airshow Mastering studios in Boulder, CO, and expanded a few years later, we also used steel studs. In any case, the framers can work really fast with metal and since our acoustical designer Sam Berkow had no objections to metal studs, they must be perfectly OK in this application.

[Airshow Mike]

american,
We decided to go with metal studs for a few reasons, but mainly it is because they are consistently straight, and local building code states that all wood used in the construction must be fire treated.

Using fire treated wood raises the cost significantly, and fire treated wood tends to warp if not kept in a climate controlled environment. Over the course of a year we have had extreme temperature and humidity swings.

But again it was mainly for consistency.

I hope this answers your question.

-Mike

[american]

thanks

I guess they don´t have almost any influence in the acoustics (for the better or worse) anyway. What do you think?

[Airshow Mike]

american,
No, the use of metal studs in our construction really has no influence on the acoustics compared to wood studs.

-Mike

[maikol]

Originally Posted by Airshow Mike

Michael,
Thanks for the question.

Yes, I will be using Dunlavy's in my room and Charlie Pilzer will most likely be using Duntech Sovereigns for his main L,C,R setup and Dunlavy IV's for his rears.

Both Dunlavy's and Duntech's were designed by John Dunlavy. The Dunlavy company is out of business and sadly, John Dunlavy passed away a few years ago. The Duntech company, however, is still in business, and is still producing speakers. The designs are fairly similar between the two brands, though some prefer one over the other. They do sound different.

As far as maintenance, we have been fortunate and have not had to replace any drivers. Thankfully, the replacement drivers are rather inexpensive, though, as time goes by they are harder to find. That being said, the issue with replacing the drivers is that part of John Dunlavy's design concept was to match the drivers by hand at the factory so a given pair of speakers would be as identical to each other as possible. Having said this, I do know a few folks who had to replace some drivers and they reported no problems afterwards. It is simply a fact of life that drivers wear out or get overdriven. If I were looking for another pair of Dunalvy's, I would try to get a pair with original parts (there are still plenty available second hand) but if I had to replace the tweeters it wouldn't be the end of the world IN MY OPINION.

I don't think you will have any problem finding replacement drivers in Europe. I can't name the companies off the top of my head, but you can certainly find them on the internet.

Also, thank you for your kind words about the studio.

Feel free to PM me if I can answer any more questions regarding the Dunlavy's.


Best Regards,

-Mike

Hello Mike!

Thank you very very much for that very detailed answer!
It is much appreciated!

Regarding Duntech, I had been in contact with Kiat at Duntech a while ago, who told me that they were working on a new version of the Princess, which might interest you also. Although , i dunno if they produce it now or not....He also said that they are able to replace a sovereign's drivers, but not an old princesses drivers, because those are not producted anymore (that might be one of the reasons they're working on a new one).

And, about Dunlavy's, you're right they can be found so cheap! There are 2 or 3 pairs of SC IV on audiogon right now for aroun 1500$!!! Jeez!

But, it's harder to find those in Europe, unfortunately...

Anyway, thanks again for your kind answer, and all the best!

Michael

[R_O]

Originally Posted by Airshow Mike

Mika,
Thank you for your question. We do not anticipate any problems with our floating floors. Sam Berkow, our acoustician, effectively used this design in previous studio construction projects.

The isolating materials are made by Kinetics, a company that specializes in noise control products.

Regards,

Mike

I'm sorry, but that floor seems like a waste of money and space. Instead of actually making a floating wall you seem to have an elevated floor.

Judging this picture:


I don't see the "spring" in your construction. Correct me if I'm wrong..

[planet red]

Originally Posted by R_O

I'm sorry, but that floor seems like a waste of money and space. Instead of actually making a floating wall you seem to have an elevated floor.

Judging this picture:


I don't see the "spring" in your construction. Correct me if I'm wrong..

The bottom layer is a special material meant for floating floors. Something similar was used in the vocomotion build on here which a WSDG design. I'm pretty sure its sold by kinetics. I'm using some later this year to build an isolated room for guitar cabs.

From what I understand this material is more effective for decoupling then rubber pucks or neoprene strips.

[Airshow Mike]

Originally Posted by R_O

I'm sorry, but that floor seems like a waste of money and space. Instead of actually making a floating wall you seem to have an elevated floor.

Judging this picture:


I don't see the "spring" in your construction. Correct me if I'm wrong..

R_O,
The floating floor construction we are using in the mastering rooms is deceptively simple, but quite effective. The Kinetics SR board (the bottom layer, honeycomb looking board with insulation on each side) decouples the mastering room floor from the cement slab below. The inside walls of the room are then built upon the isolated floor and are further decoupled from the outside shell with other isolating materials and airspace.

If you take a look at the pictures of Frank Marchand's recording and control room, you will see that Sam specified more extreme isolating techniques including the use of Kinetics brand KIPs. The KIPs provide a little more "spring". Frank's room needed a little more isolation because he will be recording in there and much more energy will be generated inside of it (guitar amps and drum kits etc..)

-Mike

[Airshow Mike]

Hi everyone,
The HVAC guys have been busy installing all of our ducts and air handlers.

The ducts going into the audio spaces have some dampening material inside and are also covered with "Duct Wrap" to isolate them from anything they touch and to generally quite them down and prevent vibration. The ducts in the common areas will be left unwrapped.

Duct Silencers will be put in place wherever an HVAC duct penetrates a studio wall.

-Mike

[Airshow Mike]

Here are some more photos of the HVAC stuff including some close ups of the duct wrap.

-Mike

[StayNuts]

Originally Posted by american

Hi,

why did you choose to use metal studs instead of wooden ones? Any pros or cons?

thanks for a great thread!!!

We using metal studs in our studios too, for several reasons...

• They are consistently straight
• Metal don't rot!!!
• Wood need space to breath. Take for example your wooden laminate floor, you leave a few mm space free at the walls to let the floor breath. The floor expands and shrinks during the seasons. If you don't leave enough space to let it breath, it will find a different way out and create a lot of damage. Metal don't have this problem. Your frame is for example all year around 3 meters high and not 3.07 meter in the summer or 2.96 in the winter...
• Termites don't like it
• The green environment movements
• Less fire hazards
• In some countries wood is forbidden to use as inner walls.
• Easy and quicker to build, all metal studs are delivered on exact seize. Just take all pieces of the puzzle and pop it together. One person can do the job and I think is much easier for the DIY....
• Metal studs are much cheaper then durable treated wood....

[Airshow Mike]

Hi everyone,
Our awesome electrician Darby (and his crew) have begun their electrical install work.

We have also taken delivery of our new Equitech balanced power system. In the photos you will see the Wall Cabinet unit with the face plate on and off. The unit itself is very large and weighs a ton. The Equitech will provide balanced power for all of the audio gear, and everything else will run on standard power.

Our new lighting dimmers have also arrived. Below you can see one of the Lutron Electronics Grafik Eye units we will be installing in the studios. Some of the benefits of using the Lutron dimmers are that each engineer can save presets for the lights in their room. This also allows an artist to switch between mood lighting and task lighting at the touch of a button. Also, because the units are essentially a remote control, the transformers can be located down the hall and far away from the audio.

-Mike

P.S I will be away for a few days so I will answer any questions when I get back.

[R_O]

Hai Mike, thanx for answering.

Originally Posted by Airshow Mike

R_O,
The floating floor construction we are using in the mastering rooms is deceptively simple, but quite effective.

it is? how do you know?

The Kinetics SR board (the bottom layer, honeycomb looking board with insulation on each side) decouples the mastering room floor from the cement slab below.

it does? how do you know?

The inside walls of the room are then built upon the isolated floor and are further decoupled from the outside shell with other isolating materials and airspace.
-Mike

By the looks of it and your information. I'm even more worried than before. Besides the fact that it, theoretically, is a 4 leaf system which prolly don't "spring" as you might expect.
You're building your inner walls (does the ceiling rest on those?) ON this elevated floor? Imagen the presure on the perimeter of the floor... it's in no comparison to the finishing floor load. (the dead load is gigantic). Did you made the spring extra dense underneath the walls?
Are those hollow cavities in between the floor beams? btw, why not add the floor directly on the kinetics stuff then? Or cut the kinetics stuff to fitt underneath the wooden beams? (saves money).

In my honest opinion, this is a good example of a wrong floor (or wrong design for that matter).

But since you've already in the finishing stages of the build.... too bad.

cheers.

(excuse my post, I'm not trying to be a wise ass...)

[glassmaster]

Originally Posted by R_O

In my honest opinion, this is a good example of a wrong floor (or wrong design for that matter).

But since you've already in the finishing stages of the build.... too bad.

cheers.

(excuse my post, I'm not trying to be a wise ass...)

Well, you may not be trying to be a wise-ass, but you're certainly not a very careful reader either. Or maybe you're just ignorant about the folks in our little industry who are the true giants. The studio designer is Sam Berkow of SIA Acoustics who designed our other studios. If you're not familiar with his work, look him up. We trust his design work implicitly. If you pretend to know more than him, or if you have the power to know everything there is to know about a complex design and construction project by looking at a single photo, then I'd love to read your design proposal.

(Not trying to be an asshole)

[R_O]

Well then, let the designer read my arguments. I love to read his ;)

[mikahanau]

Well, you may not be trying to be a wise-ass, but you're certainly not a very careful reader either. Or maybe you're just ignorant about the folks in our little industry who are the true giants. The studio designer is Sam Berkow of SIA Acoustics who designed our other studios. If you're not familiar with his work, look him up. We trust his design work implicitly. If you pretend to know more than him, or if you have the power to know everything there is to know about a complex design and construction project by looking at a single photo, then I'd love to read your design proposal.

(Not trying to be an asshole)

I agree with RO`S worry`s about these construction.

There is alot of testdata about trippel and qaud leaf walls, and also about floating floors.
I asked the same question long time before.
But Mike trust in his designer, and the designer gives (hopefully) guarantee for his work, so he is on the safe site.

Also a quad leaf wall can have good sound isolation, but it can have better isolation with just 2 leafs for less money.
And I´M not a fan of floating woodfloors, because of it`s small wight, which is not related to the dynamik load.
I hope you know how a Mass Spring system works, and that you need a calculated deflection for a working decoupling!?

I`m sure the designer from mike knows what hed do, but i also understand the worry`s from Ro.

@ Mike

I wish you all the best for your Studio, and i`m sure it will be a great space

cheers
Mika

[Airshow Mike]

R_O and mikahanau,
Thank you for your concern. I understand that you are trying to share information from past experiences.

R_O,
As David said, we trust our designer implicitly.

In regards to your "how do you know" questions, Sam used these techniques effectively in past projects so it is clear that they will suit our needs.

-Mike

[R_O]

Okay, Mike. Thanx for your reply. Hope your rooms turn out to be a blast.

[Airshow Mike]

Hi everyone,
Now that most of the electrical stuff has been run, the crew is busy filling the walls and ceilings with insulation. As soon as the insulation is in place, drywall will be installed.

The amount of fiberglass used is pretty amazing!

-Mike

[Airshow Mike]

Hi everyone,
Most of the drywall is up and the workers have pretty much finished applying a skim coat.

The HVAC guys are installing the air ducts along the ceiling in what will soon be the soffit.
All of the duct work you see in the photos will soon be surrounded by duct wrap and 705 board.

-Mike

[Airshow Mike]

Hi everyone,
Our new front doors and windows finally arrived, and the crew is working hard to finish the bathroom.

The bathroom is fairly large so it has room for a shower. We were able to salvage some marble that was left by the previous tenant, which we will use in the shower. We also found a nice slate tile to use for the bathroom floor and some of the wall surfaces.

-Mike

[Airshow Mike]

Now that the drywall is up it is almost time to paint. Charlie, Frank, and I have decided on the paint and fabric colors for our rooms. Our extraordinary architect Rick Vitullo (Vitullo Architecture Studio, P.C. Website: Vitullo Studio) put together some very cool samples for us. They really help you visualize how the colors will coordinate.

Charlie and I decided to use the same fairly neutral colors, while Frank decided to go with a rather bold blue for his walls.

We decided to keep the production room fairly neutral as well.

-Mike

[Airshow Mike]

Oops! Here are the colors.

-Mike

[SIASam]

Mika,

I am the acoustical designer for the new Airshow faiclity, and I designed the floors.

I am not particularly worried about the floors. The Live room, which we expect to be the loudest space by far, has a 2" puck based floating isolation floor, with a built-up multilayer floor on top of the iso pucks. The multi layer floor includes a high mass panel and a honey-comb isolation panel.

The mastering room is sitting on an 5/8" honey-comb with a built up multilayer floor.

In terms of isolation, I am much more concerned about walls and doors than these floors.

You are correct that a concrete slab would provide more isolation, but several factors made building a slab problematic - 1. we did not want to lose any height for these rooms. To be effective an iso slab has to be at least 7" thick (including iso pucks and sub floor). 2. Cost. 3. Airshow does NOT own the building and many landlords find pouring slabs a problem (many want large deposits to ensure they can pay to remove them if you leave). 4. I did not think more isolation was required.

So there you go! I am traveling to the site today and I am exciting to see the facility this close to completion!

Sam Berkow
SIA Acoustics

Originally Posted by mikahanau

Don`t you be afraid about re emitting problems with your floorconstruction?
I had alot of problems with this kind of floating floors.
In my build i had to get out this type of floating floor, and will now go with thick concrete over sylomer.

Who makes the disign for this floor?


cheers
Mika

[Airshow Mike]

Sam,
Thank you for your response to Mika's questions. I know many people will be very interested to read your thoughts and comments.

-Mike

[Airshow Mike]

Hi everyone,
Our new soundproof doors have been installed!

They are very impressive and VERY heavy. They also have an STC 50 rating.

For reference, I believe these doors are very similar to the ones Darius over at Amsterdam Mastering used in his construction, though ours have rectangular windows.

I imagine they will be very effective.

-Mike