For studio construction slutz only - Sunshine Mastering, Vienna

[David Simpson]

Mischa,

Originally Posted by mischa janisch

Yes, the scalloped ceiling is sealed off - its a complete floating design. Leaving it open was never an option...

That makes sense - thanks. I see that now in the section. In that case, do the lines on the section diagram that appear to connect the soffits at the bottom level represent a false ceiling or is that some kind of trim on the back wall or some such thing?

Originally Posted by mischa janisch

No, it's not sloped - its made of perforated wood planks, with insulation material behind. HVAC ducts run in the soffits on the side.

So are the soffits completely sealed? It seems that soffits are often used for bass trapping. Would you mind going into it a bit as to what are you doing for bass trapping?

Please forgive me for asking so many questions, but with such thorough documentation this really seems like a unique and wonderful opportunity to get a basic understanding of how a properly designed mastering room might come together. Being at a publicly (under)funded university music department I am unlikely ever to find out first-hand. Again, thanks for sharing all the great photos - I am sure I am not the only one who is watching your build with fascination.

Regards and best wishes. Here's hoping the build goes as well as the demolition!
David

[Farout]

Groovy! I'm lovin' it ...

[stevep]

Nice !

more pics ! :)))



,

[Brenton]

Bring it on. Love these threads.

[mischa janisch]

Originally Posted by David Simpson

That makes sense - thanks. I see that now in the section. In that case, do the lines on the section diagram that appear to connect the soffits at the bottom level represent a false ceiling or is that some kind of trim on the back wall or some such thing?

Though I feel my English is pretty decent, I still feel rather limited when it comes to describe architectual details and acoustics. I included a reflected ceiling plan, so you can see...

So are the soffits completely sealed? It seems that soffits are often used for bass trapping. Would you mind going into it a bit as to what are you doing for bass trapping?

Are they completely sealed? I'm not quite sure if I understand - please explain. They are made out of 9.5 mm gypsum board (quite thin) and 30mm insulation. That would make them some sort of membrane absorbers I guess, but I'm not an acoustician.

Bass trapping: we do have 4 membrane absorbers (PAWEL - which are swiss) in the back wall next to the Diffractals left and right. I guess the perforated wood ceiling (which is mounted with a distance to the floating ceiling and possibly includes some insulation material) does some Bass absorbtion as well, but this will probably be part of the room tuning to determine how much (if any) goes underneath this ceiling.

Please forgive me for asking so many questions, but with such thorough documentation this really seems like a unique and wonderful opportunity to get a basic understanding of how a properly designed mastering room might come together. Being at a publicly (under)funded university music department I am unlikely ever to find out first-hand. Again, thanks for sharing all the great photos - I am sure I am not the only one who is watching your build with fascination.

Regards and best wishes. Here's hoping the build goes as well as the demolition!
David

No problem, I'll answere any question as good as I can. I wouldn't have posted in the first place, would I not have been willing to share. I learned a great deal reading news groups (rec.pro.audio), the mastering webboard and for the last 6 years or so all those forums. I think that's what makes the internet so great - you get all this information for free, but at some point you have to give back if you have something you can share to make it work...

[mischa janisch]

oops, I forgot the reflected ceiling plan...

[David Simpson]

Originally Posted by mischa janisch

Though I feel my English is pretty decent, I still feel rather limited when it comes to describe architectual details and acoustics. I included a reflected ceiling plan, so you can see...

Your English is excellent - much better than my German, I must say. I am not good at reading plans or sections so I was wondering where the actual ceiling was located. It now seems obvious that it is the line I have highlighted in blue on the section and not the line highlighted in red.

I am also wondering about the details in the studio section that are labeled "11". It looks like conduit...?

Originally Posted by mischa janisch

Are they completely sealed? I'm not quite sure if I understand - please explain. They are made out of 9.5 mm gypsum board (quite thin) and 30mm insulation. That would make them some sort of membrane absorbers I guess, but I'm not an acoustician.

I was asking if the soffits are to be solid gypsum or wood rather than wood on the bottom and fabric up the inside face as we so often see. But as you have explained, they are solid and as they are sufficiently thin they would act as membrane absorbers. Seems like a very clever approach.

Originally Posted by mischa janisch

Bass trapping: we do have 4 membrane absorbers (PAWEL - which are swiss) in the back wall next to the Diffractals left and right. I guess the perforated wood ceiling (which is mounted with a distance to the floating ceiling and possibly includes some insulation material) does some Bass absorbtion as well, but this will probably be part of the room tuning to determine how much (if any) goes underneath this ceiling.

I searched with Google for the Pawel absorbers but couldn't find any information on them. I am sure there are many products available in Europe that can't be found in North America.

Thanks for the ceiling reflection plan. Does the wood ceiling have a lot of perforation or might it be just the circles indicated? I am guessing that those are lighting fixtures. With the helmholtz wall panels and the wooden ceiling the room will look great.

Originally Posted by mischa janisch

No problem, I'll answere any question as good as I can. I wouldn't have posted in the first place, would I not have been willing to share. I learned a great deal reading news groups (rec.pro.audio), the mastering webboard and for the last 6 years or so all those forums. I think that's what makes the internet so great - you get all this information for free, but at some point you have to give back if you have something you can share to make it work...

Well, thanks for answering so many of my questions. So much of what reads regarding room design and acoustics is confusing and often contradictory and so it is great to see the process so clearly defined and so well articulated. I have been getting back to reading the forums (now that my young son sleeps a bit more) over the past while and it is again proving to be a terrific resource.

[mischa janisch]

ok - the first week is over...

The space has been emptied of whatever was in there... It is a little dirty right now, but now it must be for construction what a clean canvas is for a painter.

For me this week has been really busy doing all the necessary paperwork - placing final orders for all the special materials used for the floating room construction, the doors and a couple of other things...

But the real fun part will begin next week when drywall builders arrive and HAVAC installation starts.

I included a couple of pictures I took last week.

[mischa janisch]

quick update - second week (beginning of construction)

Yesterday delivery of drywall material took place (lots of rockwool ) - the drywall builders started taking measurements.

Today construction finally started.

We are really busy now, a lot needs to be organized, lots of things keep changing all the time. But so far everything is going quite well...

Regarding the questions on some acoustical details - I'll get back later and try to answere them, but need to get some orders out first.

[frank lyon]

this is great.

thank you

[David Simpson]

Mischa,
Walls! Everything looks to be moving along nicely. It must be gratifying to finally see construction after so many weeks of planning and a week of demolition. Thanks for taking the time to update - you must be incredibly busy. Best of luck with the ordering (and more to the point - on-time deliveries)!

David

[eddierodriguez]

looking forward for your finishing! always good to have mastering-studios at hometown.

who had the idea of drywalls with metal-suspension? i noticed that this combo starts easily to flutter and boost the C´-key. when used with wood-suspensions they also flutter and make room treatment difficult, but it´s much better.

[mischa janisch]

Originally Posted by eddierodriguez

looking forward for your finishing! always good to have mastering-studios at hometown.

who had the idea of drywalls with metal-suspension? i noticed that this combo starts easily to flutter and boost the C´-key. when used with wood-suspensions they also flutter and make room treatment difficult, but it´s much better.

hi eddierodriguez,

to my knowledge the frequency where a drywall resonates is determined by the spacing of the studs (but 'C' is definitely possible), the amplitude is determined by it's thickness. to eliminate this problem, our walls essentially constists of three walls - each with 3 layers of gypsum board with varying thickness (from 12,5mm to 25mm per layer) - so their weight is different and 'resonate' (if at all with 3 layers) at different frequencies. This way sympatic resonances are minimised - can't compare that to standard drywalls...

But again, that's not my profession - and the reason we hired such high profile studio designers (WSDG) to do this job.

Hope to see you at our studio, soon

[matyas]

Looks awesome. I lived in Vienna between 1998 - 2000. It's the greatest city in the world! Viel Glück mit dem neuen Studio!

[yoink]

Originally Posted by eddierodriguez

looking forward for your finishing! always good to have mastering-studios at hometown.

who had the idea of drywalls with metal-suspension? i noticed that this combo starts easily to flutter and boost the C´-key. when used with wood-suspensions they also flutter and make room treatment difficult, but it´s much better.

Wow, I totally tried to squish the bug that's actually your avatar.

[22busy]

Best of luck with the new construction! Hope it exceeds your expectations.

I'm really curious about the deliberative process for choosing your room dimensions. Would really appreciate if you'd enlighten us as to what factored into your decision.

Did the design group give you different sets of dimensions and discuss the pros and cons of each from an acoustic perspective?

[tonymite]

soon I'll be posting my version of this - converting a 3 court Squash centre into a studio -finally.

[soundfarm]

could you share with us a pic of the studio window plans - how they are to be made?

[mischa janisch]

Originally Posted by David Simpson

I am not good at reading plans or sections so I was wondering where the actual ceiling was located. It now seems obvious that it is the line I have highlighted in blue on the section and not the line highlighted in red.

I am also wondering about the details in the studio section that are labeled "11". It looks like conduit...?

I'll try to help here - The blue line is a 'ceiling cloud' made of wood panels (consisting of a natural wood veneered MDF which is grooved on the face and perforated from behind and covered with an acoustically transparent black mat laminated to the back side). Above there is some isolation material, an air gap and the actual ceiling.
The red line in the section is the front view of the light cove attahed to the soffits made of very thin gypsum board (9,5mm) - also with some isolation material behind - to cover the HVAC ducts that run below them. Because of its thickness they also work as membrane absorbers...
11 is the mentioned light cove.

In the reflected ceiling plan you can read the different ceiling hights. The soffit is at 2,3m, the 'ceiling cloud' at 2,65m and the actual ceiling at 2,9m.

Thanks for the ceiling reflection plan. Does the wood ceiling have a lot of perforation or might it be just the circles indicated? I am guessing that those are lighting fixtures. With the helmholtz wall panels and the wooden ceiling the room will look great.

We certainly hope so.

[razorz]

Plans look awesome. Can't wait to see it when it's finished.

It's a shame I'm so lazy after work or I'd build myself a nice studio setup.

[mischa janisch]

Originally Posted by 22busy

Best of luck with the new construction! Hope it exceeds your expectations.

I'm really curious about the deliberative process for choosing your room dimensions. Would really appreciate if you'd enlighten us as to what factored into your decision.

Did the design group give you different sets of dimensions and discuss the pros and cons of each from an acoustic perspective?

Thanks!

Room dimensions: Mastering is Louden 3, all the other rooms have been designed to fit our needs and fit within available space - and after these two requirements have been fulfilled the design was checked for room modes, tweaked... But keep in mind that John Storyk has designed hundreds of rooms and has lots of experience - and knows very well what might work and what to avoid.

Of course the acoustic perspective was discussed, but not in terms of one set of dimensions vs another. We made it very clear that we want the best we can pay for - and I'm pretty sure we won't get less... When you build something like this there is NO WAY you would want to compromise on acoustics
About a month after we had our first meeting where we determined what we wanted (Room programming, noise criteria,...) we received 3 different aproaches and decided for one - but it was more a choice of layout and workflow, client comfort than an acoustic decision. I'm sure they would all have worked equally well.

[mischa janisch]

Update:

This is what has happened from Wednesday to Friday...

The walls you see in those pictures are NOT the walls of the floating studio design, they are either separating two floating rooms or the're the outside of the studio area (lobby).

Floating studio design will start next week when ceiling hangers and the material for the floating floor arrives (allready received an email from the fedex office...).

[mischa janisch]

Outside (non floating) walls of the Edit room - towards the lobby:

[mischa janisch]

Mastering room (4 pics) & restroom (last pic)...

You can see (on the ceiling) - the locksmith has started putting up a primary construction for positioning of the ceiling hangers. This construction will hopefully be finished by the end of next week.

[Farout]

So, the walls that are being put up will be the "guiding walls?" (so to speak?)
I guess what I mean is: are you going to be treating / proofing the rooms after these folks are done hanging drywall?
It is looking good, though. I am very jealous!
Thanks for sharing with us.

Scott