Need advice on buying some brass (trumpet, trombone, flute)

[Chaotic]

Id like to add some live brass to my productions so I want to pick up some decent horns. I have no idea what to look for, can anyone give me some advice. Im not looking to spend a lot of money, maybe $200 used for each piece.

[billgennaro]

what i would do is go to a brass and woodwind store and rent a few instruments. they usually will have a rent-to-buy option as they make most of their money on renting and selling to young students. keep renting until you find what suits you. they should also have a wide selection of used horns (rented horns that have been returned). bundy makes the most widely known beginners horns. good horns and woods are expensive. if you buy something used (sight unseen) it will mostly likely need some repair. brass and woods take a lot of maintenance.

good luck,
bill

[Bixby]

Are you going to be playing these? If so, I'm surprised you have so little knowledge about the horns. It seems maybe you should get a teacher first, and ask them...

That being said, it's been years since I've been in that part of the scene, but I can say that yamaha has a good reputation for starter and intermediate horns. I think Jupiter has been getting better as well. I'd maybe look for used horns from those companies. I've never been a fan of bundy. But perhaps they've improved in recent years.

It's going to be tough in that budget, because you'll mostly be getting stuff that's been used by younger people, who tend not to take great care of the instruments.

A good instrument can make a huge difference in ease of playability, especially for beginners.

[freestyle tromb]

...
wait, are you seriously just going to buy some used brass instruments? to play yourself?
do you have any experience playing brass or wind instruments?
and do you really expect to limit your budget to $200?

no offense, but it sounds to me like you're wasting your money.

why not just hire some real horn players?

[bachconnelly]

I am a trombone player, and as far as buying horns go's... $200 will get you absolutely nothing.. ha ha.. The most basic professional trombone you MAY be able to get on ebay used for aroun 800 or so.. look for Bach stradivarius or Conn 88H. As for trumpets, Bach's, Conn's, and Yamaha Xeno's.. nothing else by Yamaha. So there you go... Good luck... who's going to be playing these!?


D-

[fifthcircle]

I hope you're talking samples because $200 doesn't buy you crap for instruments. not even the cheap crappy Walmart instruments. Not to mention, I've never met a player that does all the brass (er... Flute? Can we say woodwind instrument?) well. There are some good woodwind doublers out there, but I almost never see doubles on brass (outside of a trombone player hitting an euphonium part on occasion)...

Hire players that play the instruments and have them do it well.

--Ben

[freestyle tromb]

seriously man.
(tromb is short for trombone, which i play, if you couldn't guess.)

(p.s. bachconnelly- i play an 8h! it is great. *secret trombone high five*)

[Phoenixrecording]

Get some samples or hire a brass section from one of the local colleges. They work cheap and are proficient players. This solution will get you a nice sound and won't waste your time.

[_Tonmeister_]

Phoenixrecording has it right, or maybe attend the next community band concert. Pass out business cards during break or when they finish the concert. There are older guys and gals who can erally play and may want to offer their services.

[bachconnelly]

Originally Posted by freestyle tromb

(p.s. bachconnelly- i play an 8h! it is great. *secret trombone high five*)

ha ha ha.. I play a strad. but either way.. ha ha.. (*replies with secret trombone high five*)

D-

[Chaotic]

thanks for all the replies guys.... i think?!

I dont think I explained things enough in my initial question.

First off, i have a home studio, nothing fancy, no neves, fairchilds, emts.

Yes, if i need some dope horn part and couldnt play it myself or re-create it with samples, Id look into getting some local talent to put it down.

I just genuinely enjoy playing instruments, and learning new things, is that so wrong? you guys seem quick to outsource.

I picked up a jazz bass a few months ago..... even though my band has a bassist! why would I do that when I have an amazing bassist at my disposal, because I love playing it. And now that Ive been fiddling around on it for the last few months, when I record my bass player, the sounds we're getting are 10x better, because I have a better understanding of the instrument.

The amount Im looking to spend is somewhat flexible, maybe up to $400 per piece, but I have seen used yamaha flutes at a local pawn shop for $200. Maybe they're not in great shape, but thats why I posted in the first place, to see if theres things I should look out for.

Renting isnt necessarily a bad idea, I'll definately look into that, but Id rather own if I can afford to.

[freestyle tromb]

Originally Posted by Chaotic

I picked up a jazz bass a few months ago..... even though my band has a bassist! why would I do that when I have an amazing bassist at my disposal, because I love playing it. And now that Ive been fiddling around on it for the last few months, when I record my bass player, the sounds we're getting are 10x better, because I have a better understanding of the instrument.

fair enough. but as far as actually getting good sounds out of instruments that cheap, which you don't even play (yet)? not likely. and, being a post-college musician trying to make a living, i totally support the hiring of competent professionals to do the jobs they are trained for! in short, if you need horn parts, send me a pm.

[tsvisser]

the only main difference that i can think of is that it takes lots of conditioning to get good tone, if any tone at all, out of a brass instrument. i used to play trumpet, was pretty good by my own standards (probably sucked.. i mean blew), but if i picked up a horn now, doubt much anything of quality would come out. don't know, just never seemed like an instrument that was as approachable as other instruments without some dedication to maintaining your technique.

when i did play, i envied those that had the bach instruments, couldn't afford one myself as a student.

[fraz]

Horse cookies.

Yamaha makes a number of excellent pro horns : both Bobby Shew models, the LA Bergeron, the NY.

In fact, I played a $400 Yamaha student model several months ago that was better than most other pro horns I tried, INCLUDING a number of Strads.

Want a good student model trumpet that'll sound great? look into a Getzen.

Originally Posted by bachconnelly

I am a trombone player, and as far as buying horns go's... $200 will get you absolutely nothing.. ha ha.. The most basic professional trombone you MAY be able to get on ebay used for aroun 800 or so.. look for Bach stradivarius or Conn 88H. As for trumpets, Bach's, Conn's, and Yamaha Xeno's.. nothing else by Yamaha. So there you go... Good luck... who's going to be playing these!?


D-

[Chaotic]

Thanks, I'll look into those.

Just like there's cheapo "secret weapons" in other areas of music, like valve Jr. guitar amps, GT Brick pres, RCS's, etc., I figured the same would apply to this situation.

[amanitas]

First of all, you can get a lot of perfectly playable brass instruments for under 200. I'm a horn player, and while I have a Bach Strad. trumpet (think it was 1200 brand new in 1996) and a King 3b Valve bone (1200 or so in 2001) I've been getting more use out lately of the student model Yamaha cornet (from the 70s) I picked up on Ebay for a hundred and twenty bucks.

That is the secret - look around on Ebay for any student model instrument made by Yamaha in the 70s and 80s (that is in good working order) - those horns are ****ing rad - they generally play really well in tune and they have a really nice action on the valves that isn't too slow and isn't too fast.

I heard that Elliot Smith played 70s yamaha accoustic guitars exclusively, and I think Yamaha was just making really high quality shit back in the day.

I've also got a Jupiter flugelhorn which has made the rounds on a few tours and recording sessions as well. I wouldn't recommend it new at the price it sells for, but it's not bad if you can find a used one for cheap.

Basically, if you are getting a Jupiter, get the newest one you can find as they have stepped up their production quality in recent years. If you are getting a Yamaha, get an old one, cuz the new ones (student models) are horrible. I would avoid any student model horns made by Conn Selmer in general.

Point being there are plenty of horns on craigslist and ebay in your price range that for your purposes would work fine. Just make sure they are purported to be in good working condition - ie for a trumpet make sure the valves move freely and the slides aren't totally stuck.

If and when you want to hire some professionals to do horn stuff for you, check out the website at Horns.



In other words, secret weapon is vintage yamaha student model horns.

[Igotsoul4u]

I think yamaha's are the best cheap trumpets. I would recommend taking a brass player to help pick one out as each horn is different. A good brass player should know what to look for as far as making sure the the horn is tight. Also. I bought a bach strad for $200 at a yard sale so keep your eyes peeled!!!! A lot of people don't know what they are selling. A friend of mine picked up a mark 6 sax for $100 at a yard sale.

[Beermaster]

True that is possible to get hold of old second hand brass instruments for just about the figure quoted, you won't get much on the woodwind front as these go for much higher prices.

Regardless of this tho I think its a REALLY stupid 'Un-educated' idea to go out and buy a selection of 'horns' as if you were buying a new pen or a different selection of breakfast cereals ! ha ha so dumb ! - Its almost like saying 'I'm gonna buy a helicopter an X-Ray machine and Brain surgeons scalpel - just to try them out for a few says '

A fruitless waste of money and time.

Just being honest

Beer.

[Greg Curtis]

Save your money to pay the players. Buying cheap horns will give you nothing but a collection of cheap horns that you cannot play, and nobody worth their salt will want to play.

Anyone you hire will have their own, better horns that they've come to know over DECADES of playing.

The horns you hear on recordings are played by guys and gals with decades of experience, who have dedicated their lives to their art.

Comparing playing brass instruments to playing an electric bass is silly. Fretted instruments can be learned very quickly versus one requiring an embouchure. It took me 5 years to become a very good bass player in a recording, touring band, but after 30 years of playing trumpet I can tell you that brass instruments are some of the most specialized and difficult instruments to learn, let alone play well enough to put down on tape.

Having instruments laying around is cool, but don't expect to sound good on them.

Greg

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