How do get I that feedback effect on a duplicated track in my DAW?
Carnival
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#1
26th February 2012
Old 26th February 2012
  #1
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Thread Starter
How do get I that feedback effect on a duplicated track in my DAW?

I'm trying to use a delay effect without a plugin, because my delay plugins seem to lack that extra "oomph" that I hear on commercial music.

So for the delay effect I'm using, I duplicate a track and then offset the time of the track to get echos. However, I'm unable to figure out how to create feedback for those echos on the duplicated track.
#2
26th February 2012
Old 26th February 2012
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnival View Post
I'm trying to use a delay effect without a plugin, because my delay plugins seem to lack that extra "oomph" that I hear on commercial music.

So for the delay effect I'm using, I duplicate a track and then offset the time of the track to get echos. However, I'm unable to figure out how to create feedback for those echos on the duplicated track.
In most cases, your best bet would be to just use a delay plug-in rather than a bunch of manual manipulation. It's likely that with the right settings, you could arrive at your goal.

If you post an example of a song with delay that you like along side a snip of your tunes, we can make more specific suggestions.
Carnival
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#3
26th February 2012
Old 26th February 2012
  #3
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Thread Starter
Track 7 (1).wav

this is an example of a song with delay that has "oomph" IMHO.

Sorry, I haven't recorded anything yet to post anything of my own material.
#4
26th February 2012
Old 26th February 2012
  #4
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Headof75's Avatar
 

Sounds to me like a mono short delay on main vox.
There are lots of ways to achieve this sort of sound, but you are probably best off using a plug-in to achieve it. The eqing on the plug sounds similar to what's on the vocal, with the bass rolling off first, and for more oomph run the delay on a seperate track and compress it, before you send it back to your vocal bus.
Carnival
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#5
26th February 2012
Old 26th February 2012
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Thread Starter
When you meant run the delay on the separate track and compress it, did you mean run it on a return track and compress it there?

Should the bass roll off setting for the delay be same as the vocals?

What should the compression settings be for the delay?

Thank you guys for helping.
#6
26th February 2012
Old 26th February 2012
  #6
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Headof75's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnival View Post
When you meant run the delay on the separate track and compress it, did you mean run it on a return track and compress it there?

Should the bass roll off setting for the delay be same as the vocals?

What should the compression settings be for the delay?

Thank you guys for helping.
Set up a mono group track, send the vocal to it (using bus sends) and plug in a mono delay with mix on 100% wet.

Once you have adjusted the delay to taste plug a compressor in next in the chain. Again adjust settings to taste - try something like a 4:1 ratio fastest attack 100ms release to start with, lower the threshold until you think it sounds good and then tweak the other parameters as desired.

Then create another group track, stereo this time. This will be the vocal bus. Route the output of your vocal track and the output of your delay track to the vocal bus. Normal practise would then be to put (at least) a low ratio light compression on this bus in order to squash your tracks together a little.

Virtually every delay plugin I've used has lo and hi pass filters and no you don't need to set them the same as the original signal. Most plugs will have a slap back preset. Again start there and tweak.
#7
26th February 2012
Old 26th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnival View Post
I'm trying to use a delay effect without a plugin, because my delay plugins seem to lack that extra "oomph" that I hear on commercial music.

So for the delay effect I'm using, I duplicate a track and then offset the time of the track to get echos. However, I'm unable to figure out how to create feedback for those echos on the duplicated track.
To create feed back you need to duplicate the delay track again and offset the track by 1/4, 1/8 or whatever the delay feed back you were aiming for is. Then pan (ping pong) and adjust volume (feedback amount).

But I don't exactly see what you are trying to complete here. The only reason to do this kind of separation is to have custom delays and that you can process each delay individually.

For oomph you need compression. Also low-passing the delay is usually a good idea.
Carnival
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#8
26th February 2012
Old 26th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Headof75 View Post
Set up a mono group track
Since I'm using Ableton Live Lite, I'm unable to group tracks. What should I do?
#9
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
  #9
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savyurrecords's Avatar
 

1 of 2 things

1 Spend Money

2 Use a plug in. That's what everybody else does
Carnival
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#10
29th February 2012
Old 29th February 2012
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Thread Starter
1. Money is tight right now, and it's hard to find a job from where I live at.

2. What plugin do you have in mind that groups tracks?
Carnival
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#11
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
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Thread Starter
Bump, ok so i found an older version of live lite that allows me to group tracks.

However, I'm having a hard time sending the vocal track to the group track. How does this work? I tried sending the track to the group tack by using bus sends, but I can only use the send knob on the vocal track and not on the group track, am I doing it right?
#12
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
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savyurrecords's Avatar
 

There is no plug in to group tracks sorry for being misleading. What I should have said is use a delay plug in. I don't see why it makes that big of a difference. Oh well.

By the way you group tracks in Ableton by selecting the tracks you want to group and hitting ctrl g.
Carnival
Thread Starter
#13
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #13
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Thread Starter
Yeah, I'm already using a delay plug-in, I'm using Abelton's Simple Delay plug-in.

Thanks for the keyboard shortcut tip, but I have other things to concern about. Such as sending the vocal track to the group track by using bus sends. Am I supposed to mess with the outputs of the vocal track by doing this?
#14
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #14
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savyurrecords's Avatar
 

Great glad to hear you are using a plug.

Here is a way to create a "bus" for your tracks. Lets get away from saying group for a little while.

First create your "bus" track. In Ableton this is simply an audio track. Name this track.

Now create the tracks that will "feed" this "bus" track. These are also audio tracks.

Now make sure the IO is open that shows you where each track is coming from and going to. (Audio From/Audio To)

Now on the "feeder tracks" select their Audio To to be the bus track. On the bus track select Audio From to none and turn monitoring to IN. Now the feeder tracks will sum(mix) into the bus track.
#15
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #15
Would-Be-Teaboy
 
Jazz Noise's Avatar
 

If you're feeling adventerous, follow me for some DIY delay stuff.

Set up a bus and send your tracks to it. Set up a delay with 0% feedback, 100% wet and send this to another bus with a level of no more than - 2 or 3 dB, post fader.

Set up an EQ in your 2nd bus with a HPF and LPF enabled, NO GAIN, and send it back to your first bus with again about -2 or 3 dB post fader. Vary your high and low filter cutoffs to vary how much the delays change over time as they're progressively EQ'd. Other FX such as chorus/vibrato (for tape wobble effects) or tremolo/autopan are all very usable in certain situations.

Reduce either send amount to reduce feedback. Be wary of amounts on or over 0 as you'll amplifying within the feedback loop, causing signals to get BIGGER. Loud noise, screech, AGH herpderp. A Limiter in either channel can help put a stop to that nonsense, but it's best practice to just avoid it happening.

You can also send these delays to another bus with another delay to create "Multi-tap" delay sounds.
Carnival
Thread Starter
#16
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #16
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by savyurrecords View Post
On the bus track select Audio From to none
I don't know what you mean by selecting the bus track's Audio From to "none", do you mean by disabling active track routings?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazz Noise View Post
If you're feeling adventerous, follow me for some DIY delay stuff.
Will do, once I learn how to send a track to a bus track.
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