Recording through firewire input onto usb harddrive

[Mr. June]

Yes you can; the issue would be the transfer speed of your USB drive. If it is an option, I would recommend recording to your internal HD then transfer to an external for backup/archiving. Good luck!

[Gearomatic]

Going to assume your referring to USB 2.0?

I would avoid recording to the internal drive of your computer. Unless you know your drive can move both the OS info and the audio in and out fast enough...

You can certainly record to a USB drive, but like Mr. June said, you will run into issues with the computer being able to move data fast enough.

If you have a desktop, see if you can put in a second SATA drive internally to record to,
(you can do the same for most laptops if you want to ditch your CD drive) (Just put a SSD for my boot drive, and my laptops wicked fast. The other HDD is now in the CD bay for recording onto when I don't use external drives.)

I personally have two FireWire 1TB drives for recording to, and then several other USB drives for backup. My opinion is that until Thunderbolt or USB 3 are more widely available, that FireWire is the way to go. I could be completely wrong, but that's what I am sticking to.

It all also depends on what you want it for really.
If your doing just a few tracks, you could get away with the internal drive.

But once you start piling them up you may find that the computer wont be so reliable when recording.

[Lotus 7]

I'd strongly second what Gearomatic said about not using an internal drive that is running your system software and DAW software for audio file recording. It's fine for back-up, but during recording there's just too high a possibility that a system call will interrupt the disk operation for longer than your record data buffer can accommodate at high data rates.

I use a Macbook Pro (2.66 GHz I-7 processor w/4GB RAM) for recording with an Apogee Ensemble. The DAW is Apple Logic Pro. I've run up to 8 tracks @ 24bits/88.2 kHz and 12 tracks at 24bits/44.1 kHz, with no problems using the following configuration:

The Apogee is the only device on the firewire port and is connected through a FW 800 to FW400 cable. Screensavers, power savers, TimeMachine, and any other "background" applications that can be disabled have been disabled or removed. WiFi is disabled, Bluetooth is OFF and no internet connection is allowed during recording.

I use various external drives of between 320 GB and 1TB on the USB2 port for file storage during recording. Some drives are 5400 rpm, rated at at least 30 MB/sec and some are 7200 rpm, rated at about 50MB/sec.

No other external devices are connected to the firewire ports or the second USB port, I even disconnect my USB mouse and use only the keyboard and trackpad when recording!

No USB hubs are used.

I have a few drives which have both firewire and USB interfaces, but I always run them on the USB bus. I feel that the bus loading is lower if the data input and output paths are on separate busses ) reducing the data rate on each bus.

With an Ensemble, the firewire bus is handling the multiple tracks of data going to the processor as well as the return monitor data going back to the interface and the occasional control data. I believe that when running Logic Pro, like most DAW's all the record data must go through the processor (and DAW) before it's formatted and sent to the storage disk.

The interface does not send data directly to the drive, it first has to go to the processor and then back to the drive, so that doubles the bus traffic if they are both on the same bus.

Rather than send all 12 tracks back on the firewire bus to the storage device, I'd rather send it to the USB bus mounted drive. Processor loading is about the same having to format for either firewire or USB, but the firewire bus traffic is much lower.

[Rjp9]

Thanks for the excellent reply Lotus! Up until now I've been using my buddy's system to record my band. We used a 003 rack daisy chained into a glyph drive. Has worked perfect, but sadly he is moving to colorado and is taking it with him. So I'm building my own! However, glyphs are pretty expensive. In case anyone else reading this is wondering, I asked this question to see if allocating the recording process to a USB drive would be just as effective as daisy chaining a FW harddrive. Have not decided whether I want to stay ith Protools (i.e. upgrade to 10 to use with the profire) or switch to another DAW.

Originally Posted by Lotus 7

I use a Macbook Pro (2.66 GHz I-7 processor w/4GB RAM) for recording with an Apogee Ensemble. The DAW is Apple Logic Pro.

I am using a similar setup: MBP 2.66 IntelCore 2 Duo also 4gigs ram. My interface is a now a M-Audio Profire 2626

I have a few drives which have both firewire and USB interfaces, but I always run them on the USB bus. I feel that the bus loading is lower if the data input and output paths are on separate busses ) reducing the data rate on each bus.

And here 'bus' is referring to the actual hardware path inside your computer to your physical USB dock?

Rather than send all 12 tracks back on the firewire bus to the storage device, I'd rather send it to the USB bus mounted drive. Processor loading is about the same having to format for either firewire or USB, but the firewire bus traffic is much lower.

Exactly what I want to do. One more question: how do you actually tell Logic that the signal is to come in from your Ensemble and recorded via USB? Is this a process that is all handled within Logic itself or elsewhere?

[Lotus 7]

The firewire or USB "bus" is comprised of the internal interface (the communications chips forming the firewire and USB controllers), the physical connectors and the cable going to the external device (disk drive). For the best data handling capacity (throughput) it's best to not use an external USB hub if you can avoid it. USB hubs have switching and other active circuitry and need a power source which just complicates things. If the external drive is the only thing on the "bus", there is no need for a hub. The Macbook Pro has (2) USB ports and (1) FW 800 port. Those go directly to the external USB drive, and the audio interface through short cables (1 meter and 2 meters, respectively).

In Logic Pro, when a project is started you simply set the directory path to the storage device. Logic creates a "take" folder on the drive and places all tracks there as well as all edit and processing directions. I have templates set up for all of the possible tracking configurations I use with various interfaces and built-in or external mic pre configurations for between 2 and 16 tracks. The templates live on the system drive, but once a new project is started, the directory path points to an external drive and everything is stored there.

I usually set up a master project folder on the external drive [manually] before starting a new project, and then everything goes into it. That makes it very easy to quickly and fully back up a project by simply copying the one master folder. That fits my work-flow because my projects are all independent and don't share any content. I strictly do recordings of acoustic instrument performances, and don't use virtual instruments so I have very simple configurations.

The Apogee Ensemble interface is automatically recognized when it's turned on. It does come with a (more detailed) configuration and control program "Apogee Maestro", but it also is recognized directly from within Logic Pro via a menu accessible control panel. Access to the interface is completely automatic and transparent as long as the computer is booted up before the interface is turned on. The Ensemble I/O is highly integrated with Logic Pro.

Other interfaces are accessed through the Mac Audio/MIDI control panel.

For someone who is composing within Logic, and who may use specific instrument tracks in multiple projects, a different system of file organization probably would be better and would avoid unnecessary duplications. Logic allows a lot of flexibility of where and how files are organized.

[Rjp9]

Wow Lotus thanks again for the great information! Your setup makes perfect sense. If I may humbly ask one more question: anywhere you could point me to as far as audio grade (7200 rpm+) USB HD's go? I don't really care if they are even rack mountable or not. Of course I had been perusing through the product catalogs of many standard brands such as Glyph, LaCie, WD, and so forth but I would love to hear what a fellow GS is using!

[Mr. June]

Rjp9 - you've gotten some great info from Gearomatic and Lotus 7 and they are correct about recording to the same HD that your OS is on; I should've made this distinction. Every system I've built since...ever...has had a 2nd HD for audio so it didn't cross my mind when posting a quick reply. Good luck!

[Lotus 7]

Originally Posted by Rjp9

Wow Lotus thanks again for the great information! Your setup makes perfect sense. If I may humbly ask one more question: anywhere you could point me to as far as audio grade (7200 rpm+) USB HD's go? I don't really care if they are even rack mountable or not. Of course I had been perusing through the product catalogs of many standard brands such as Glyph, LaCie, WD, and so forth but I would love to hear what a fellow GS is using!

Picking a hard drive always seems like a "gamble" since they are such a "moving target" and the external drive (housing) suppliers seem to often change the actual drive components every 3-months.

I have an assortment of external drives I've accumulated over the years including G-Tec 7200s and LaCie (Starck case version) as well as WDs Segates and small Samsung 2.5 inch 5400 rpm M-2 USB bus powered drives which work fine for projects using no more than 8-tracks, and are totally silent and very small (and very low cost). The Glyphs appear to be well made and do have a great reputation for quiet operation and reliability, but I don't own any.

My criteria for picking a larger AC powered external drive WAS that it have a drive made by a major manufacturer with a good reputation, a strong metal case so it will hold up when being packed for on-location use and that it is quiet - either no fan or a quiet fan if used. Having said that, my future mass storage needs will be filled by using SSDs. I have a Sound Devices 788T SSD recorder and love the internal SSD.

For my main, on-location use, I'm always concerned about drive damage due to shock. Using SSDs eliminates that worry and they are obviously super fast. The days of storing data on little pieces of metal spinning at ridiculous speeds just microns away from a fragile magnetic pick-up head are numbered.

[Rjp9]

TIL solid state hard drives exist. O_O

[Lotus 7]

Originally Posted by Rjp9

TIL solid state hard drives exist. O_O

I going to pick up one of these to try for my next Logic Pro recording drive. They will work with the USB2 ports on a Macbook. Speed and capacity is more than enough for any projects I expect to have. Only 75 grams, NO noise, and will take a 1500G shock.

Only problem seems to actually be able to find one in stock.

I have a 256 GB SSD in the 788T and it's been fully reliable.