Basic soundman stuff

[piper]

Guys, that's all interesting, but it's really not on topic for this thread.

As I said in my initial post, there are no drums, and everything goes through the PA. No amps on stage.

At the gig last friday, the FOH was around 95 db @ 1 m.

[Rockinrob]

Piper your correct in your comment and sorry if we got off track with this one. The problem you are experiencing is that the voicings of everything except the bass are in conflict on the frequency spectrum so you are going to need to do a little eq tweaking so bring out everyone clearer in the mix. I would recommend if you have eq's on your board with adjustable Q's (bandwidth) to set your Q at a wide level say 2 or so and then boost it about 10 db or so. Have each person sing/play individually and sweep the eq up and down until you find a spot where that particular vocal or instrument seems to be most present in the spectrum. With voices it is going to be difficult to find a whole lot of difference between the two. Once you find the sweet spot you can tweak the eq for each one to a different level or you can cut a bit. Say you find that one of the singers vocal hits really good around 250hz or so then you can boost that person there and cut the others in that area. You will want to lower your Q before doing that. When we talk about Q the amount of bandwidth (frequency range) that is cover is inversely proportional to the number. i.e. a Q of 7 would cover less ground than a Q of .5 this is easily displayed if there is any kind of a parametric representation on your board. I don't want to get too deep. This could be done as easily as just bringing the guitar down in the mix so that it doesn't compete volume wise with the vocals and then boosting each vocal in a different frequency range to give them their own spot in the spectrum. You could also try panning each vocal slightly off center and opposite of each other to bring them out as well, say one at 11 o'clock and one at 1 o'clock.

[Kaiborg]

Originally Posted by OralnHardly

Spoken like a true live newbie.


Rules about I've sound.

1. Never tell the band to turn down. If they ask, tell them the truth. If they don't, they don;t want your opinion.

2. Learn how to mix a band that is too loud on stage...because...you will be mixing a LOT of these bands...if you intend mix live for a living.

3. Learn how to get vocals up over loud guitars.

4. DOn't make the mix about the kik drum

5. Don't mix at UNITY...you won't be able to do monitors properly...get as much gain as possible before clipping, then mix with your faders...this way you have enough gain for you monitor sends...where your faders land isn't important.

5. If folks are making comments like the above, you probably suck.


There is much more but I think this will get you going for about 5 years.

This is actually very solid advice, and shows a level of experience beyond novice/sports bars/small venues. As a guy who's done sound in dive bars , arenas, IATSE gigs, etc... you should trust this. Especially if you're less than 5 years in.

[loujudson]

Originally Posted by OralnHardly

Spoken like a true live newbie.


Rules about I've sound.

1. Never tell the band to turn down. If they ask, tell them the truth. If they don't, they don;t want your opinion.

2. Learn how to mix a band that is too loud on stage...because...you will be mixing a LOT of these bands...if you intend mix live for a living.

3. Learn how to get vocals up over loud guitars.

4. DOn't make the mix about the kik drum

5. Don't mix at UNITY...you won't be able to do monitors properly...get as much gain as possible before clipping, then mix with your faders...this way you have enough gain for you monitor sends...where your faders land isn't important.

5. If folks are making comments like the above, you probably suck.


There is much more but I think this will get you going for about 5 years.

I heard this interview with Bonnie Raitt on Folk Alley this week. It is completely and totally relevant to this old discussion!

[Doc Mixwell]

awesome

[Rockinrob]

+1 on the awesome.

[Sir Chris]

Originally Posted by OralnHardly

Spoken like a true live newbie.


Rules about I've sound.

1. Never tell the band to turn down. If they ask, tell them the truth. If they don't, they don;t want your opinion.

2. Learn how to mix a band that is too loud on stage...because...you will be mixing a LOT of these bands...if you intend mix live for a living.

These 2 rules are 100% wrong. The other rules he mentioned after is good advice. I do live sound for a living, on occasion overseas as well. RockinRob is flawless in his advice. Sound guy ain't worth a shit if he can't take control of the stage volume. You will have a very upset owner or GM when they get the police making a visit about noise complaints. And u can only get so many before they start handing out fines.

Rob is also correct in approaching the band, and getting them to trust you and that'll you will make them sound good. In your case piper u don't have to worry about that part lol.

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[adrianww]

I'd love to see some of the guys advocating the "don't turn the band down" approach work one or two of the small pub/club venues I've played around here. Specifically the ones where the local council/police authority have fitted a sound limiter. Peak over 100dB for more than a few seconds at a distance of 5-10m from the stage and it shuts down all stage power. No warning (other than a flashing amber/red light for a few seconds - and it is literally just a few seconds, maybe four or five) and, if you don't back it off immediately, then boom, you're offline. Or perhaps "not boom" might be a better description!

It's a pain if you're the band (I know, been there, had it happen) but it certainly helps you learn about dynamics, sound reinforcement and what is (and isn't) an acceptable level in smaller venues. You soon learn to control your own levels in a reasonable manner.

There was one memorable occasion where a band just couldn't get it right in one of those venues and were constantly tripping the system out and having to wait for it to be reset. When they started complaining about it at the end of the night, the owner basically told them that it was their own fault for being sh!t and not knowing how to play or run their sound properly, but it wasn't really a major problem since there was no way he'd ever let them play a gig at any of his places again.

Actually, I've now heard enough badly-run and inappropriately loud pub/club gigs that I often find myself wishing that more places had limiters (and owners!) like that.

[johnnyv]

I recorded everything and there were some parts that could have been better, but some parts were good, and there wasn't any feedback.

now that's actually shows your learning fast. Acoustic music can be the hardest to work with. The audience will forgive you for not having a stellar mix, most don't know the difference, but one spark of feedback and everyone will glare at YOU with an evil look!!

The Yamaha Sound reinforcement hand book was mine and everyone I know who does this works bible. Keep it by your shitter after your fist read through.

Acoustic music requires better equipment. Every instrument, PU, mike and then the sound system should be the best you can afford. A rock band will have most of it's sound come from the backline. With an Acoustic act, it's all in the FOH. This is a control freaks dream come true. Keep it simple but keep it quality. You are part of the band, an equal member. Sound like your off to an excellent start.