Why is workflow so important?

[Thunderdan]

Because there is a huuuuuuuuge market for stuff that sounds "horrible" to musicians...

[NaturalBlack]

its mot a 12 bit sound engine or glitchy sequencer that makes the music horrible its a horrible musician. As a 10 year jazz guitarist I would think you would understand that.....

[CharlesEdward]

Workflow will make you a more efficient producer, but I don't think It has anything to do with being a musician. It two completely different things. Workflow can benefit a musician if he is wants to become a song writer, but not all musicians write music. As a producer though workflow is extremely important, once you find your workflow as a producer its like reaching nirvana.

[aproblem]

Originally Posted by thebutcherbeats

So why do we need to see waveforms stretched on the computer screen, auto chop features and such if the end result (even if programmed well) sounds horrible?

Are you talking about workflow or technology and it's effect on music. Workflow is something that differs from person to person. It's basically each individual's own way of doing things. For me workflow comes from experience and knowing your tools, gear, plugins, DAW, etc inside out. Like when you first start out, you're not really going to have a workflow because you really don't even know what the **** you are doing. As you progress and gain experience though you begin to learn your own way of making a beat/song/mix. What this allows you to do is create what you want to, faster, because you know how to do it and you have your own way of doing it.

[Tnevz]

Workflow is important in pretty much anything you do if you want to be efficient.
As a musician I would say workflow is important more so in practicing on an instrument.
But as a guitar player myself, there are definitely efficiencies in the way I play. Especially to conserve energy or make the playing somewhat easier, when playing live. This is practiced by most guitarists and I would imagine most musicians in general. You have to relax and find the most effecient way from point A to B.
In the studio you usually don't have to worry much about being efficient.

A producer/engineer, with all kinds of options in the studio/daw and songs now regularly hitting the 50-100+ track count mark, better have a decent workflow if he/she wants to actually make money and keep their sanity.

[mp3]

Its more than just efficiency IMO. As an electronic musician (that's what hip hop is to me) I make better beats with a better workflow.

Musician and producer are not synonyms. There are plenty of producers who use inferior sounding gear on the basis of workflow.

[CharlesEdward]

Workflow is knowing what works and what doesn't, and also knowing to never go down the road that doesn't work.

[Jesse381]

It has nothing to do with efficiency to me like I'm trying to crank out songs like an assembly line or something. Workflow for me is just the flow of ideas, and working on with instruments and equipment that allows the ideas to keep flowing is important. Because while sound quality is certainly important too, it doesn't trump the ideas. You can have a great sounding instrument, but if you can't think of anything creative to play on it, then what good is it?

I know lots of guitarists who value playability over sound quality. The feel of the neck on a guitar is everything. If its uncomfortable to play, it doesn't matter how good it sounds because you likely won't play it that often anyways. I have an expensive fender strat and an agile les paul copy. The strat sounds better note for note, but I use the agile more because it feels better, which in turn allows me to perform better on it. If an instrument is uncomfortable to play, you likely won't make good music with it. You could sit and pluck 1 note and be in awe of how great it sounds, but if you want to make music its got to be playable first and foremost, imo.

[CharlesEdward]

Originally Posted by Jesse381

It has nothing to do with efficiency to me like I'm trying to crank out songs like an assembly line or something. Workflow for me is just the flow of ideas, and working on with instruments and equipment that allows the ideas to keep flowing is important. Because while sound quality is certainly important too, it doesn't trump the ideas. You can have a great sounding instrument, but if you can't think of anything creative to play on it, then what good is it?

I know lots of guitarists who value playability over sound quality. The feel of the neck on a guitar is everything. If its uncomfortable to play, it doesn't matter how good it sounds because you likely won't play it that often anyways. I have an expensive fender strat and an agile les paul copy. The strat sounds better note for note, but I use the agile more because it feels better, which in turn allows me to perform better on it. If an instrument is uncomfortable to play, you likely won't make good music with it. You could sit and pluck 1 note and be in awe of how great it sounds, but if you want to make music its got to be playable first and foremost, imo.

You make no sense and contradict your own words.

[Jesse381]

Originally Posted by CharlesEdward

You make no sense and contradict your own words.

What is contradicting in my post and what didn't make sense to you? I think your reading comprehension needs work.

[Manfrensengensen]

To me workflow is how efficiently you get results. If you charge $20 per hr to track and or mix and it takes you 20 hours to complete a project, and the guy down the street charges $40 per hour and can do the same quality result in 10 hours. You have to charge less per hour to compete.

If you quote a price per hour to a client, the next question will be how many hours will it take? Just like any business "time is money". The more projects you can do per day/week/month depends on surviving or living well.

Quality of the end result is separate.
Quality of gear can improve workflow. If I have a crappy mic and need to tweak 6 plugins to get it to sound the same as just tracking with a better mic an only needing 3 plugins, then using better gear improves workflow.

[Logical Mind]

because being able to do what u want to do quickly and efficiently w/o getting lost in the technical side of things is preferable to not beig able to.

[manuel alejandro]

If you are creating workflow is very important. When inspiration strikes you want to be able to lay down the idea ASAP and not be worried about not being able to do this and that. Taking too much time you will lose/not be able to remember what you were trying to do. Learn your tools.

[Ken Lewis]

Originally Posted by thebutcherbeats

Hey guys, I love this forum and it has helped me very much.

My main concern as a musician and producer is what is so important about workflow to everyone?

This might help some people, its a free video lesson from my Welcome to Audio School Online which covers Session set up and organization, workflow, etc...

FREE - LESSON 1 from the REALLY HOT SUMMER Full Session


here's an even more in depth video lesson on the topic

Pro Tools Session Setup Organization

-Ken

[3rd Degree]

There are a lot of factors here. Often, when speaking about work flow, we are not comparing two similar pieces of equipment. For example, my ASR 10 or S2000 rack may take hours to time stretch (not that I time stretch much) where my computer does it instantly. I love the way my s2000 can sound, but not always, when I really need to use time stretch. So that is an example of workflow where you can reduce hours into seconds.

The main thing is not so much working quickly, it's about being comfortable. I don't play guitar but I have played other instruments. Being comfortable with an instrument is important. But when you are creating music with many tracks, be it recorded instruments or digital sounds, many more factors come into play. How easy is it to record? How easy is it to keep track of everything? How much time do you waste going through menus that can stifle that creativity? How easy is it to go from idea to finished work? How easy is it to mix and make it sound good enough to sell or work with others?


I really don't think it's critical to have the "best" or "fastest" work flow. I do think it is pretty critical to use equipment and find ways to use what you have to keep you creative. Workflow to me is just how the work "flows", you don't compromise sound. It's staying at your best without having factors that prevent you from keeping inspiration or having things that take you off track.

It's not some fine tuning, for me at least, if you are happy, don't worry about it. If you have things in your setup you don't like, try to make it better. I personally have years where I make 150+ instrumentals so more than 1 per 2 days. I still may feel lazy with just that, loving most of what I make. So when you are basically a factory, weak links show themselves and if you can make you life easier, it's going to help.

[thebutcherbeats]

Thanks for the responses guys. The comfort factor point is exactly right, that is exactly what helps inspiration prosper. I can see why someone would be willing to give up sound for that.

[Ken Lewis]

Originally Posted by thebutcherbeats

Thanks for the responses guys. The comfort factor point is exactly right, that is exactly what helps inspiration prosper. I can see why someone would be willing to give up sound for that.

honestly, i dont know who is saying that but truthfully, you dont have to sacrifice on either side of the coin, in fact, each one should enhance the other, at least it does here.

[3rd Degree]

Originally Posted by Ken Lewis

honestly, i dont know who is saying that but truthfully, you dont have to sacrifice on either side of the coin, in fact, each one should enhance the other, at least it does here.

Ken, I agree completely and was going to say the same thing earlier but didn't have time to post.


OP-You say you are a Jazz guitarist and the best comparison would be this. Lets say you used 4 different effects pedals, sometimes alone, sometimes together, and sometimes not at all. Workflow would be equivalent to how you route those pedals and place those pedals. There are a bunch of ways you could cable them up but you pick the way that is easiest and most convenient, without sacrificing "sound quality", "fidelity", however you want to put it.



Here is a perfect example in my world. Many people say the ASR 10 is one of the better sounding samplers around. I believe without a doubt that it's the best sampler I own sound wise, when running one element in, be it a drum loop, a sample, or a single instrument. However, even though Reason doesn't sound as good off the bat, I am able to make beats that I feel sound better in Reason. I can't tell you exactly why but I chalk it up to the fact that Reason has thousands of ways to make something sound different so I am not just relying on good sounding converters. It's easier to use (for me) and sounds better. Totally win, win on my side.

[Storyville]

When someone is making music - they are taking an idea, emotion, concept, whatever that's in their mind and putting it into some physical form. Every step between the thought and the result is a chance to either develop or hinder that idea.

That process is workflow.

It is personal. It's not about speed, or efficiency (at least directly). No one can market "superior workflow".

My workflow involves a great deal of analog layback. There's nothing efficient about this. However, I get the sound I want, I commit it, and as I'm committing it I absorbing the sound and coming to understand what I want to do next. I hide and make the original stems in active, so my work window stays nice and clear. By the end of all of it, there's much less plugins on my channels, much less automation that hasn't been committed. It's easy to bounce stems or manipulate things.

But for some people, doing hours of analog layback is not as effective.