31 band eq clean guitar setting?

[matt thomas]

Hate to say it, but I think you bought the wrong thing.

graphic eqs like that ones are made for eq-ing monitors in live situations, as well as PA's.

You sound like you want something at home. What exactly are you doing? You are recording into a computer, or playing live in a bar, or?

A bit more info please..

matt

[rogerbrain]

Originally Posted by matt thomas

Hate to say it, but I think you bought the wrong thing.

graphic eqs like that ones are made for eq-ing monitors in live situations, as well as PA's.

You sound like you want something at home. What exactly are you doing? You are recording into a computer, or playing live in a bar, or?

A bit more info please..

matt

ditto that

the bands are too narrow and don't overlap so you get a 'lumpy' curve .. 31 band is to pull out problems and not touch other areas.. having said that .. for guitar a db or 2 up or down in the bands from about 200 to 5k will do a lot.. whether you like the sound..another issue

[deckard1]

Originally Posted by matt thomas

Hate to say it, but I think you bought the wrong thing.

graphic eqs like that ones are made for eq-ing monitors in live situations, as well as PA's.

You sound like you want something at home. What exactly are you doing? You are recording into a computer, or playing live in a bar, or?

A bit more info please..

matt

Thanks for your honesty. . .seriously. I obviously don't know a lot about home recording To answer your question. . .I am trying to build a small home recording studio. I play guitar and currently have an EVH Wolfgang Special, chorus pedal, digital delay pedal, Tascam D-03 digital portastudio, and an Alesis SR-18 drum machine. I am not using a computer. . .by choice, that is. That's it. . .plus the dbx 31-band eq I just bought. I was looking to tweak my guitar sound as it is sounding way to "bassy". I guess I thought. . .the more bands the better. Besides, the guy in the store told me it would help my situation!

Funny thing is. . .I've played around with the 31-band eq and it actually improves my guitar sound quite a bit. But, I will probably end up returning it and getting something else. Also, I wanted an eq that I could use for more than just my guitar. . .say, drums, etc., without spending a lot of money.

I would greatly appreciate any advice and/or suggestions on what to buy next for my "little" studio. . .without going the computer route.

Thanks.

[deckard1]

Originally Posted by rogerbrain

ditto that

the bands are too narrow and don't overlap so you get a 'lumpy' curve .. 31 band is to pull out problems and not touch other areas.. having said that .. for guitar a db or 2 up or down in the bands from about 200 to 5k will do a lot.. whether you like the sound..another issue

Thanks. Any advice on what to replace it with. . .brand-wise? I wanted an eq that I could use for everything. . .not just guitar. . . and around a couple of hundred bucks.

[matt thomas]

Are you recording your guitar with a microphone or are you plugging your guitar straight into something.

There are no real "rules" of what is right and wrong, so if the eq is doing something you like, then it is right, but I think something else would serve you better. The guy in the store either didn't understand your needs, or doesn't know what he's talking about.

I just tried looking up your D-03, do you mean the little DR-03? Or perhaps the DP-03? I'm thinking you mean the DP-03.

If you are using the mics built into the DP-03, or mics plugged straight into it, there is not a hell of a lot you can do. You can try changing your mic technique. (in fact you should probably try this anyway, if you are micing it, before spending money) The eq built into the porta studio is pretty basic, and I assume you have tried that.

If you are using a mic via something else first, then you need a line level eq. You would need to know what type of line level you are using (tell us what equipment you are using) and you can probably get something cheap that is in a rack mount format.

If you are plugging your guitar in directly, and assuming its not going via a preamp, then you will need an instrument level eq, probably something like a pedal would be best.

Then again, if you want to use it plugging your guitar directly into, and also for your drum machine, I may have to think about it a bit more, since they are probably not outputting the same level. Also your drum machine is probably stereo, whereas your guitar is mono.

So tell me how you are recording you guitar, what your signal chain is (meaning, what equipment are you using in the recording process, and how is it hooked up) and we'll go from there

matt

ps. Good idea to not use a computer, computers are too flexible, better to start on a simple system that forces you to use it well to get a good result

[deckard1]

Thanks. You're right. . .I meant the Tascam DP-03.

I am not using a mic. . .my signal chain consists of: guitar=>Boss DD-3 digital delay pedal=>Boss Chorus pedal=>Tascam DP 03. I was looking around on the internet and heard great things about the MXR 10-band eq pedal for guitar. The only problem is, I am on a budget so I thought it would be easier and more practical to get an eq that would work additionally for drums, synthesizer [something I will be buying in the future], and anything else I might decide to purchase.

What about a mixer? Would that help my situation?

deckard1

[dubmunkey]

i have an mxr 10 band and 6 band... they are ok not amazing

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Gearslutz App

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by deckard1

Thanks. You're right. . .I meant the Tascam DP-03.

I am not using a mic. . .my signal chain consists of: guitar=>Boss DD-3 digital delay pedal=>Boss Chorus pedal=>Tascam DP 03. I was looking around on the internet and heard great things about the MXR 10-band eq pedal for guitar. The only problem is, I am on a budget so I thought it would be easier and more practical to get an eq that would work additionally for drums, synthesizer [something I will be buying in the future], and anything else I might decide to purchase.

What about a mixer? Would that help my situation?

deckard1

A mixer would help nearly any studio, but we're trying to keep things cheap and simple here.

I notice you don't use a guitar amp, nor a guitar amp simulator. Does the tascam have one built in? Or do you just like the sound of a straight guitar?

I'm having trouble thinking of a stereo eq that can be used for instruments and for line level.. I'll keep thinking.

Graphic eqs are not as flexible as parametric ones.. you probably want something parametric, or at least sweepable mids.

matt

[deckard1]

Originally Posted by matt thomas

A mixer would help nearly any studio, but we're trying to keep things cheap and simple here.

I notice you don't use a guitar amp, nor a guitar amp simulator. Does the tascam have one built in? Or do you just like the sound of a straight guitar?

I'm having trouble thinking of a stereo eq that can be used for instruments and for line level.. I'll keep thinking.

Graphic eqs are not as flexible as parametric ones.. you probably want something parametric, or at least sweepable mids.

matt

No amp or amp simulator. I've got a Wampler Pinnacle overdrive/distortion pedal as well, but, I rarely use it. . .as I prefer the sound of a straight guitar.

Simple question here: What is the difference between a graphic eq and a parametric eq?

Thanks again for your input on the dbx 31 band eq. . .I am returning it today.

deckard1

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by deckard1

No amp or amp simulator. I've got a Wampler Pinnacle overdrive/distortion pedal as well, but, I rarely use it. . .as I prefer the sound of a straight guitar.

Simple question here: What is the difference between a graphic eq and a parametric eq?

Thanks again for your input on the dbx 31 band eq. . .I am returning it today.

deckard1

a graphic eq has fixed frequency points, and frequency widths (Q). The "Q" is the range of frequencies to each side of the boost/cut point that is being effected. For instance, of you boost 1k are you also boosting 2k a bit?

a sweep eq (sometimes incorrectly called a parametric eq, or also sometimes called "partially parametric") doesn't have fixed frequency points, but does have fixed Q. You probably only want sweepable mids, and not a full parametric eq. By "sweepable mids" I mean you can only choose the frequency for the mids, the highs and lows are fixed frequency.

with a parametric eq you can select the frequency and the Q.

A parametric eq, usually will have knobs instead of sliders. There will be a knob for "frequency" and a knob for "boost/cut" and (unless its a sweep eq) a knob or button for "Q".

Generally such an eq will be 3 or 4 bands (and not 31 like your graphic!)

for example, this pedal has sweepable mids, its a good pedal too:

TECH 21 - SansAmp Para Driver DI

this one has parametric mids:

http://www.musictoyz.com/Merchant2/m...tegory_Code=EQ

I was also thinking, if you got an amp simulator, it would have eq's built in. But it would change your sound a lot, and they can be quite nasty sounding sometimes.

Also, you don't NEED a sweep eq or whatever, most guitar amps for instance only have fixed frequencies for their boosts and cuts. Its just that sweep/parametric eqs are more flexible.

I would go for a pedal eq for your guitar. Or perhaps a "preamp" pedal, that'll have some eq built in. Since your drum machine is stereo, it won't be much use for that, but it'll be a good start.

here's an analog preamp that could work too: http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/gt2.html It doesn't have much of an eq section, but I think it'll sound good anyway.

Also, I should add that generally you don;t need an extra eq for electric, when its through an amp.

matt

[johnnyv]

If what you were doing was trying to get a better "clean" sound from an electric guitar then you might want to look for a guitar pre amp.
Electric guitars need some kind of pre amp to shape the tone otherwise they are a little thin and lifeless. The Tascams pre amps should help, but it's best to buy something that was made specifically for electric guitar. The sound coming out of a Boss delay pedal is a little thin already ( I own one but never use it)


Here are a few low cost gizmos that could spark up a guitar: Look for second hand on ebay or Craig s List etc.

A multi EPX pedal. ( Boss or Digitech
A 20 watt or bigger amp.( guitar, bass or keyboard will do for clean) use line out or mike it up.
A Boss EQ pedal.
a Sansamp PSA-1,

Here is an old thread that asked the same question and there's some excellent answers.

Guitar preamps for direct recording

[deckard1]

Many thanks Matt and Johnnyv! After reading both of your replies to my dilemma, I went with an MXR 10 band guitar eq pedal to help better shape my clean guitar sound. I appreciate both of you taking the time to help me out.

Now. . .on to the next piece of equipment.

[deckard1]

Quick question: So how come when I use the equalizer, my guitar sound clips? Even if I turn down the gain on the eq, when I strum real hard my guitar sound breaks up. Very annnoying

[dubmunkey]

Originally Posted by deckard1

Quick question: So how come when I use the equalizer, my guitar sound clips? Even if I turn down the gain on the eq, when I strum real hard my guitar sound breaks up. Very annnoying

silly question but your not just plugging the guitar into the eq line in are you?

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Gearslutz App

[deckard1]

Originally Posted by dubmunkey

silly question but your not just plugging the guitar into the eq line in are you?

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Gearslutz App

I don't know if this answers your question, but, my signal chain consists of: guitar=>delay pedal=>chorus pedal=>eq pedal=>Tascam digital portastudio.

I don't very much about recording or sound engineering so I would greatly appreciate any advice you have for me. The clipping is unbelievably frustrating and makes my eq worthless.

Thanks.

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by deckard1

I don't know if this answers your question, but, my signal chain consists of: guitar=>delay pedal=>chorus pedal=>eq pedal=>Tascam digital portastudio.

I don't very much about recording or sound engineering so I would greatly appreciate any advice you have for me. The clipping is unbelievably frustrating and makes my eq worthless.

Thanks.

Basically, it shouldn't clip.

There could be something wrong with it, but it is most likely to be user error.

Things to check:

-The gain and volume faders at each end of your pedal should only be around zero, the middle position. (unless you are purposefully using it as a boost)
-On your tascam, you might have the input gain up too high (see next point)
-What input are you plugging into your Tascam on? You should be using the jack input labelled "line/guitar", not the XLR input. Switch the switch on the front to "instrument". Set the "trim" knob so that the "OL" (overload) LED is not lighting up.
- Are you using the pedal (or any of your pedals) with batteries? If so, check that they are not going flat, or use them with their power adapters.
- Same goes for your guitar, is it active? Check the battery there too.

Does that help?

btw. Since you are using the eq as a corrective device, I'd try putting it first in the chain of pedals, it won't help the distortion issue, but it would mean the other pedals are working with the intended signal. Then again, if you like it the way you have it, that's fine too.

Its also possible, but very unlikely I think, that your guitar just outputs too hot a signal for that pedal. Shouldn't think so though..

matt

[deckard1]

Originally Posted by matt thomas

Basically, it shouldn't clip.

There could be something wrong with it, but it is most likely to be user error.

Things to check:

-The gain and volume faders at each end of your pedal should only be around zero, the middle position. (unless you are purposefully using it as a boost)
-On your tascam, you might have the input gain up too high (see next point)
-What input are you plugging into your Tascam on? You should be using the jack input labelled "line/guitar", not the XLR input. Switch the switch on the front to "instrument". Set the "trim" knob so that the "OL" (overload) LED is not lighting up.
- Are you using the pedal (or any of your pedals) with batteries? If so, check that they are not going flat, or use them with their power adapters.
- Same goes for your guitar, is it active? Check the battery there too.

Does that help?

btw. Since you are using the eq as a corrective device, I'd try putting it first in the chain of pedals, it won't help the distortion issue, but it would mean the other pedals are working with the intended signal. Then again, if you like it the way you have it, that's fine too.

Its also possible, but very unlikely I think, that your guitar just outputs too hot a signal for that pedal. Shouldn't think so though..

matt

Thanks again Matt. I'm playing through an EVH Wolfgang Special. . .so I don't know how hot the pickups are or if it's even active. I will also put the eq in front of the pedals as you suggested. The pedal is brand spanking new. . .so I don't think there is anything defective with it. I probably have the input levels set too high as well. I'll give it a try at a lesser level. It only clips when I strum real hard. . .is this part normal? When I don't use the eq in my signal chain and strum real hard, there is no clipping!

How do you know all this info? Is there a book or are there books that you would suggest which I could purchase so I could learn some more about sound engineering? It is a fascinating area of interest!!

deckard1

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by deckard1

Thanks again Matt. I'm playing through an EVH Wolfgang Special. . .so I don't know how hot the pickups are or if it's even active. I will also put the eq in front of the pedals as you suggested. The pedal is brand spanking new. . .so I don't think there is anything defective with it. I probably have the input levels set too high as well. I'll give it a try at a lesser level. It only clips when I strum real hard. . .is this part normal? When I don't use the eq in my signal chain and strum real hard, there is no clipping!

How do you know all this info? Is there a book or are there books that you would suggest which I could purchase so I could learn some more about sound engineering? It is a fascinating area of interest!!

deckard1

yes, there are, but I can't remember which ones

You can learn a lot form this site, but you have to get used to wading through all the crap and picking out the good bits of info.

And then, once you get a general understanding, a lot of it is common sense.

I just googled your guitar, the review I found said it had a relatively low output, so that's probably not the problem.

did you run through my list of suggestions?

matt

[deckard1]

Originally Posted by matt thomas

yes, there are, but I can't remember which ones

You can learn a lot form this site, but you have to get used to wading through all the crap and picking out the good bits of info.

And then, once you get a general understanding, a lot of it is common sense.

I just googled your guitar, the review I found said it had a relatively low output, so that's probably not the problem.

did you run through my list of suggestions?

matt

Thanks Matt. I printed out your suggestions and will run through each one tomorrow morning and let you know what happens!

deckard1

[deckard1]

Originally Posted by deckard1

Thanks Matt. I printed out your suggestions and will run through each one tomorrow morning and let you know what happens!

deckard1

Okay. . .ran through all your suggestions and the eq has stopped clipping! I've still got some money in my bank account so I would like to improve my "little studio"

Here's what I've got so far:

EVH Wolfgang Special electric guitar
Boss chorus pedal, Boss digital delay pedal, Wampler Pinnacle overdrive/distortion pedal, MXR 10 band eq pedal
Tascam DP-03 digital portastudio
Alesis SR-18 drum manchine
2 KRK Rokit Powered 5 Generation 2 Powered Studio Monitors

Any suggestions on what else I could purchase? How about a cheap [couple hundred dollar] mixer to add to the above? What do you think?

Thanks!

[matt thomas]

ha, you're addicted.

Work with what you have, and if you need something new, you should get the feeling that you're missing whatever you need. Don't get something just because you want to buy something.

A little mixer won't add a hell of a lot of functionality, because your recorded already has a mixer built in, for mixing your recordings. Then again, mixers pretty much always add some ease of workflow, but think about if you need it first, it might just end up an extra box.

The one thing that is unusual about your set up, is that you are not using an amp. Like I said before, if you are happy with that, cool, but if it was my set up, I would consider getting an amp, or even amp simulator, but I would do some careful consideration and auditioning before splashing out, since lots of them aren't that great. Personally, in your situation, I might consider something from sansamp, for a simulator, or the little fender valve amp (can't remember the name, it has only two knobs I think), for an amp, in which case you'd need a mic too, like an SM57.

matt

[deckard1]

Originally Posted by matt thomas

ha, you're addicted.

Work with what you have, and if you need something new, you should get the feeling that you're missing whatever you need. Don't get something just because you want to buy something.

A little mixer won't add a hell of a lot of functionality, because your recorded already has a mixer built in, for mixing your recordings. Then again, mixers pretty much always add some ease of workflow, but think about if you need it first, it might just end up an extra box.

The one thing that is unusual about your set up, is that you are not using an amp. Like I said before, if you are happy with that, cool, but if it was my set up, I would consider getting an amp, or even amp simulator, but I would do some careful consideration and auditioning before splashing out, since lots of them aren't that great. Personally, in your situation, I might consider something from sansamp, for a simulator, or the little fender valve amp (can't remember the name, it has only two knobs I think), for an amp, in which case you'd need a mic too, like an SM57.

matt

Thanks for your help, Matt. Since you mentioned possibly buying an amp it dawned on me that I've had my eyes on one of these babies for a while now:

EVH 5150 III Mini 50W Tube Guitar Amp Head | Musician's Friend

I wouldn't buy the accompanying cabinet as I live in an apartment and I wouldn't be able to turn the volume up past 1. They are not cheap [about a grand a piece]. I would plug it into the portastudio directly [via the rear of the amp] and use it for my guitar sounds. I've listened to a lot of amp simulators and they sound terrible in my opinion.

Any thoughts?

deckard1

[matt thomas]

Since its a valve amp, You probably can't run it without a speaker cabinet, as valves need something to drive.

It does have a headphone output though, so maybe they have built it around this possibility. It would also depend on if the headphone out (or whatever output you plan on recording) has some kind of speaker simulation, as the speakers are an important part of the sound. You can't really just record a line out on a guitar amp, because that is intended to go to another amplifier and through a speaker cabinet, so it won't sound how you might expect.

There's something a bit strange going on here. You're obviously a EVH fan, yet you don't have any overdrive/distortion, nor an amp. EVH sound is all about distortion/overdrive and an amp (and some nice clean chorus parts) It doesn't seem to add up.. What style do you play?

matt

[deckard1]

Originally Posted by matt thomas

Since its a valve amp, You probably can't run it without a speaker cabinet, as valves need something to drive.

It does have a headphone output though, so maybe they have built it around this possibility. It would also depend on if the headphone out (or whatever output you plan on recording) has some kind of speaker simulation, as the speakers are an important part of the sound. You can't really just record a line out on a guitar amp, because that is intended to go to another amplifier and through a speaker cabinet, so it won't sound how you might expect.

There's something a bit strange going on here. You're obviously a EVH fan, yet you don't have any overdrive/distortion, nor an amp. EVH sound is all about distortion/overdrive and an amp (and some nice clean chorus parts) It doesn't seem to add up.. What style do you play?

matt

I hope I am not coming across as an idiot. Forgot to mention that I have a Wampler Pinnacle overdrive/distortion pedal which sounds okay sitting in my closet. I also have a Line 6 Pod X3 which was given to me as a gift. I don't like the distortions on the X3 at all. I basically play rock and roll [e.g. Clapton, Hendrix] but absolutely love EVH's guitar sound!

What is the preamp out switch located on the back of the 5150 III 50 watt head for??? I thought this was for plugging the head straight into your recording device or mixer so you don't have to use a speaker and mic.

deckard1

[matt thomas]

ah ok, actually I think you did mention the wampler, I just didn't know what it was.

I have a guitarist friend who has been anti amp simulators till he tried this one:

Kemper Profiling Amplifier (White) | Sweetwater.com

Its the latest thing, so that's always more exciting, maybe the buzz will die down, but it is pretty crazy piece of equipment if you check out the videos. You can download simulations of other user's amps online.. Quite expensive though..

matt

[matt thomas]

This one is meant to be good too, and it's not digital

Mesa/Boogie Rectifier Recording Preamp | Sweetwater.com

What is the preamp out switch located on the back of the 5150 III 50 watt head for???

Usually it is for attaching to a second amp, like when people have a wall of amps for example. But you are right, it can be for recording, but normally only if it has a speaker simulator built in, or you run it via an external one, otherwise it will be very fizzy.

matt

[deckard1]

Originally Posted by matt thomas

This one is meant to be good too, and it's not digital

Mesa/Boogie Rectifier Recording Preamp | Sweetwater.com



Usually it is for attaching to a second amp, like when people have a wall of amps for example. But you are right, it can be for recording, but normally only if it has a speaker simulator built in, or you run it via an external one, otherwise it will be very fizzy.

matt

Once again thanks for the info. What about this piece of equipment? I've heard good things about Palmer products:

Palmer PDI-09 'The Junction' Guitar DI Box - BananasMusic.com

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by deckard1

Once again thanks for the info. What about this piece of equipment? I've heard good things about Palmer products:

Palmer PDI-09 'The Junction' Guitar DI Box - BananasMusic.com

I don't know Palmer products, but it looks like the kind of thing I was talking about.

From the product blurb:

A DI box designed especially for guitarists, for use with line level preamps, or to be connected between amp and speaker, enabling direct-to-mixing-desk recording without microphones.

Which, to me, seems to say that it is not suitable for using with something like the EVH amp, unless you have a speaker cabinet too. But it would be suitable to use with any guitar preamp. (remember, Valve/Tube power amps need to drive speakers, you can't just them have them plugged into nothing). Unless they just haven't worded it well.

Something like this however, would be suitable for using with the EVH without a speaker cabinet, because it is designed to also simulate the load of a speaker cabinet to the amp (its also quite expensive) (also check first, cos I'm not 100% sure):

SPL Transducer

or you can use something like a THD Hotplate before your speaker, which will bring the volume down, but let you drive the amp hard, without getting loud. You still need a speaker.

THD Electronics

Or get something without a valve power amp.

I still think you try something from Sansamp. They are quite usable, more pleasant than most, and they are analog, although not exactly the same as an amp. Good for noodling at home. If you audition one in a shop, make sure they don't plug it into a guitar amp for you to try, you want to try it through studio monitors, as per your set up.

TECH 21 - SANSAMP

matt

[deckard1]

Hey Matt,

I am going to go for the Tech 21 SansAmp PSA1.1 Amp Simulator like you suggested instead of the tube amp. I can use my chorus and delay pedals with it I assume and input into my recorder directly.

What is the point of the effects loop?

Looks like you just saved me a thousand bucks!

deckard1