Hardware console glossary: what is Aux return vs. Group return??

[crying1986]

Originally Posted by dcupmusic

Hi guys.

Im going to buy an analog console soon and before i do I need to clear something up.

Reading the console manual will answer many of your questions.

Coming from a DAW background, i need to clarify some terms.

What is the difference between an Aux return, and a Group buss?

An Aux return is also known as an FX Return. You send signal out of an aux, and is is brought back into the console via an FX Return

The way i mix:
In ableton Live, Ill have 6 returns.
1. Drums
2. Backing
3. Vocals.
4. Short Reverb
5. Medium reverb
6. Long Reverb or Delay.

So as you can see, the first three are instrument groups, the last three are fx sends.

So on an analog console, would 1-3 be groups, and 4-6 be aux sends?
How would they all come down the master section? Is there a fader for both aux returns and groups?

Yes 1-3 would be groups or Busses. 4-6 would be Aux sends. The Busses are usually routed internally to your main stereo buss, but this varies depending on the console that you're working on. FX Returns usually have rotary controls to control the level of the return signal, and then there are also buttons to designate where the signal is sent to from there. Again, this depends on the console though.

Also, most importantly, when a console advertises 4 groups, does that mean mono or stereo instrument groups?

If a console says it has 4 groups or 4 Busses, this usually means that it has 4 mono busses, so 2 stereo busses. Unless it specifically says 4 stereo groups/busses I would assume that each buss is Mono.


If you care to go any further, here are some specs i was looking at.
Would i be able to mix like i do in Ableton Live on a desk with these features?
4 groups (busses)
1 stereo buss This is most likely your master buss. Your stereo/2trk out
4 mono aux sends (pre/post) This means 4 mono sends per channel
1 stereo aux send (pre/post) This means one stereo send per channel
Inserts on stereo buss and groups This means you do not have inserts on each channel, but you have inserts on your groups, and master buss/2trk out
Stereo in place solo and channel mute "stereo in place"??? Solo and mutes on each channel
6 master aux level controls 4 mono aux master level send controls and one stereo aux master level send control
4 aux return modules with 8 panable returns Stereo FX returns with fully panable control

Many thanks
D

I think I covered most of it...the other guys will correct any mistakes I may have made.

Cheers.

[TheLastByte]

Originally Posted by crying1986

I think I covered most of it...the other guys will correct any mistakes I may have made.

Cheers.

Sir...........You are indeed very cruel! Having said that myself.....I have never seen a Post that has actually physically hurt my eyes on the GS forum. Where everything so wrong is.....erm....still...ah.....so very wrong! I am nearly speechless, tired, and I will endeavour to come back an unravel this routing scenario, when the OP re-reads his thread, and the tears of a thousand baby seals yet to be clubbed - are not rolling down my cheeks!

Therefore I am Crying1986.

[Manfrensengensen]

Auxiliary send routing

The auxiliary send routes a split of the incoming signal to an auxiliary bus which can then be used with external devices. Auxiliary sends can either be pre-fader or post-fader, in that the level of a pre-fade send is set by the auxiliary send control, whereas post-fade sends depend on the position of the channel fader as well. Auxiliary sends can be used to send the signal to an external processor such as a reverb, which can then be routed back through another channel or designated auxiliary returns on the mixer. These will normally be post-fader. Pre-fade auxiliary sends can be used to provide a monitor mix to musicians onstage; this mix is thus independent of the main mix.

Subgroup and mix routing

Each channel on a mixer has a sliding volume control (fader) that allows adjustment of the level of that channel. The signals are summed to create the main mix, or combined on a bus as a submix, a group of channels that are then added to get the final mix (for instance, many drum mics could be grouped into a bus, and then the proportion of drums in the final mix can be controlled with one bus fader).

There may also be insert points for a certain bus, or even the entire mix.

[crying1986]

Originally Posted by TheLastByte

Sir...........You are indeed very cruel! Having said that myself.....I have never seen a Post that has actually physically hurt my eyes on the GS forum. Where everything so wrong is.....erm....still...ah.....so very wrong! I am nearly speechless, tired, and I will endeavour to come back an unravel this routing scenario, when the OP re-reads his thread, and the tears of a thousand baby seals yet to be clubbed - are not rolling down my cheeks!

Therefore I am Crying1986.

um...what?

[anthonythecat]

Group busses will typically be mono (depends on the mixer though). Have a look at the channel strip for the group assign switches. You will probably see three buttons with something like 1-2 , 3-4 and L-R (or ST). This would mean there are 4 group busses set up as two stereo busses. Pressing the 1-2 assign switch will send that channels signal to the 1 and 2 buss with 1 being left and 2 being right.

For you situation you would probably need an 8 buss mixer.

However, how are you going to use your mixer? Are you going to send the individual drum outputs to the mixers channel inputs and mix them down to the group buss there? Same for all the backing parts and vocals? If so, you are going to need an audio interface that can output a lot of channels.

One thing you could do is submix one of the groups within the DAW (perhaps the vocals), send that out to a pair of mixer channels (for stereo) and straight to the stereo (ie L-R) buss.

How many physical outputs will you have coming out of the DAW and into the mixer? If you have, say, only 8 outputs and were planning to submix within the DAW and send your groups to the mixer only then you wouldn't really need any groups on the mixer as the DAW would be effectively performing that task with the analog mixer then just mixing your groups (which would go into the channel inputs of the analog mixer) together straight to the stereo buss.