Propellerhead's RECORD

[Shan]

Originally Posted by KING KOBRA

...I thought as musicians,artist,mix engineers we learn from teach and inspire each other so that we can all advance in our level of skill and know how in making music, ALL IN FUN!

+1!

Shane

[Yodah]

Yeah man I am ready to hear something! I been using protools myself for years but I just love the work flow of 2 windows. Now I just hate the lack of PDC....I own a UAD2, and hate the workarounds alot of the times, so I am really looking forward to Digi stepping it up... plus seeing what Record has to offer.

Now there is one thing that seems a little wierd to me. This thread is kinda hot so I will tread gently.

If a person does great mixes....they do great mixes period! I've never seen a software mix a project by itself.

I am guessing if CDS claims that he can smoke alot of people here with mixes.....than to me he should be able to do it because he is a great mixer right? Not because he is using xxxxx software program.

What happen to all the people who claim that ALL daws sound the same? (oh forgot record is not a daw)

Anyways, mixes are personal taste anyways, a warm sound to some is dull, and a clean sound to others is just to digital sounding, one person loves xxxxx reverb,comp,eq, and another hates it. One person can get a sound with certain gear some can't.

Personally I hope its all people claim it to be......we all win if companys start racing for the top instead of the bottom.
And people need to take a step back and start thinking about how they are coming off about a product....... its like this is the magical fairy dust thats gonna just make your stuff sound incredible.

Again, I've never seen anyone give as much credit to a software, I always thought it was leaning more towards a persons skills, not their tools.
Is Record about to change all of this?

[d3xmeister]

I've heard songs made exclusively in Reason that blowed me away. I have friends using this software, they don't miss VST/AU because they have more than 100GB of reffils and they make incredible songs, and genre that I wasn't even thought it was possible to do in Reason. The only thing the missed was audio, because they always had to rewire with other daw when recording voice or some live instruments. Now the problem is solved so I think Record is a great thing.

It has been said but I will say it again. It's the artist that matters, not the tools !

[JPeters86]

Looks like a cool DAW. Very curious. Will have to wait til September. Which will be a great month. Mark Knopfler's new album... Halo ODST... Record...

[poshook]

If somebody would try beta version, let me know via PM. I became official beta tester.
After first experiences I can tell you, the SSL console is amazing, best than I have ever heard, especially channel strip compressor. better than Waves SSL by far

listen to examples. the wet sample is with very hard compression for better feel what it can do...

[Dubster]

It'd be nice to hear an example of the time stretching on multi-track drums.

[andrewj]

I will definately try it, when it comes out.

[multikigor]

Originally Posted by poshook

better than Waves SSL by far

listen to examples.

How can you say that it's better then something else it you didn't upload file processed with Waves?

Process same file with Waves SSL , with same settings and we'll compare both files.

[poshook]

Originally Posted by multikigor

How can you say that it's better then something else it you didn't upload file processed with Waves?

Process same file with Waves SSL , with same settings and we'll compare both files.

I owned waves SSL but included channel strip compressos was not as tight as this in Record and it made the sound thinner. This is my oppinion and I you can think something different

[CDS]

Originally Posted by poshook

I owned waves SSL but included channel strip compressos was not as tight as this in Record and it made the sound thinner. This is my oppinion and I you can think something different

I agree 100% with you as you can see by my comments earlier.

No matter what you do or say, if a person wants to believe Record does not deliver because they want to hold on to some past Mix magazine cover dream of working in an air conditioned studio with a fruit basket on the effects rack, then dream on.

The reality is while those who want to hold on to 20th century dreams will be getting left behind by 21st century innovations in pro audio.

Most people here would rather deal with a ton of patch cables and gear to get the shaping results you were able to achieve with just a piece of software. Some people want to take the steps to the 30th floor while others take the elevator, thats just the way it is.

[No-Doz]

Personally I can't see one reason not to be excited by this. The act of emulating the summing of a console is something i've seen discussed here many times, and now someone has done it. And hell, I'm with some of the other posters here, I'm GLAD it doesn't do everything. I am proud of my studio and its console/hd rig/etc etc but who f'n cares. I'm actually a songwriter and a musician. And you know what I record my song ideas on? The voice recorder on my blackberry, cause its fast. Faster than opening anything. Mindless, too.

Isn't that the reason everyone wants to use a console, quick, easy, sounds better faster? Isn't that even one reason why people use summing boxes? The way I see it, this thing puts the fire under the asses of every software company, big or small. This is a concept, and you can be damn sure that it will be seen as a revolution, whether you think its a step back or not. I don't think the DAW, for all of its usefulness, is the greatest way to make music. I think it works. But if I were to tell you that it was my favourite way to make music, I'd be lying. I've been using PT HD for years and its certainly integral to what I do, but truly, nobody will care soon, including myself. Native, TDM, real, emulated, its getting really really close to not mattering anymore. Even some of the "kids" are annoyed with it, and I guess at 28, I'd venture to say a lot of you would call me a kid, and I'll accept that. But maybe that's what gives me the perspective to see how much this matters. Of course the slutz are always going to want everything to do everything, but what do the people who make music want? I want quick, great sounding, relatively flexible, and reliable. Oh, cheap is nice too.

On paper, this would appear to do that. Granted, its missing some features many would call key features, but that doesn't stop it from being a great tool for a good majority of people, including "pros" and "slutz". It certainly doesn't stop me from being highly interested in seeing what it can do. I remember having Rebirth eons ago and making loops and printing them to my 4 track out of the 1/8" jack and having a ball. I mean, I still have just as much fun with HD and my Neotek, but honestly, lets get to the core here....this is about music, right guys? I mean I know this is gearslutz and all, and lord knows that's why I'm here, but as a fellow gearslut/nerd, lets look at this objectively. I think that a product like this is steering more towards what computers and music should be doing together correctly for the sake of MUSIC, not audio. There's plenty of audio options, and via rewire, this thing works with all of them. So what's the problem?

Is it perfect? No, its 1.0 silly. How will they sell 2.0 without all of the features you want left out? They weren't born yesterday, and either were you, so to assume it will do everything on first version is naive. It will grow, and I'd venture to say, so will its userbase. Hell, I'll go out on a limb and say it will grow even if it sounds nothing like an SSL purely based on the fact that it IS Garageband HD. If everyone in this world has to be an engineer instead of a songwriter, who the F is gonna write songs? Hell, the only reason I became an engineer was to record my own songs well and not to need anyone else. I know I'm not alone.

And in looking over its features and build, it does seem like they got a few things right from the get go. 64 bit mix bus, had the balls to make a mixer look like a mixer (for better or worse), went ahead and emulated an entire SSL (for better or worse), kept everything familiar to their userbase. You can always open a Reason session somewhere else and its the same thing, this brings that to audio. Not bad for a couple of songwriters who are working together, IMHO. Uses any audio interface via Core Audio or ASIO, multi-core support, simple but innovative screen switching! I think the screen switching alone is a pretty brilliant move...ever try to use Digital Performer with their crazy window thing going on? Garbage. This looks like it can work! Look, its like they built the universe view from PT into every window...genius! You can use this on a small screen. That stuff is priceless even if just to throw gas on the fire of the digital audio world. SMARTER! Abelton did this once upon a time, and still does in some ways. But I also feel like Live is the other end of the spectrum of something like this. The beat nerds will re-wire this to Live. Guy with guitar? Plugs in. Oh it has a pod built in? Not bad. I use the pod on the demos anyway, now its there.

Oh and low latency? Wait, did you say low latency AND delay compensation? I hope Digid...AVID is paying attention. As a staunch PT HD/LE user, I am afraid they're going to start looking like fools instead of the kingpins sooner than they had anticipated. I really need another HD rig to keep up with the workflow that my partner and I have, but you know what I don't want to do? Buy another HD card(s) and interface just so he can open the sessions correctly, with delay comp and the amount of tracks. But guess what I have to do if I want that? That can't and won't last in this world or this economy, but sadly, its my only option and I'm highly considering it because I have to get work done. Programs and ideas like Record are going to prove to be one of the biggest reasons why this sort of thing dies. All its going to take is a simple move like, "Record: Universal Audio Edition" BAM. Death By (digital) Audio. Putnam Console, 1176, LA2A, blah blah blah. UA endorsed even. 500 extra bucks. Same framework. better plugs. Interchangeable consoles, eventually, using different consoles with different master sections. Neve Strips with an SSL Master section. Its endless. And its inevitable.

Everyone stops caring about the shit that doesn't matter and starts making better music, and the reign of wasting all your time instead of making more music ENDS. This is the future, and its here. Join up. Consoles are awesome, hardware is awesome, but don't look at this and laugh. Its the way its gonna be and you know it.

They know what they're doing, and the more you think about it, the more genius it becomes. They can make a front end controller/console that has pre's, soundcards, and the whole 9, and make it a total package. Native, simple, reliable, cheap. THAT IS the future, you can bet on it. Who does it first doesn't matter, but I have a feeling this is the beginning of a whole other chapter to digital audio. Before you know it, they team up with Apple, and they make a damn mac mini that boots natively to Record. Apple Record: Runs 192 tracks of audio, at 192k 24 bit (but you don't use that anyway cause nobody cares but your hard drive), use whatever interface you want, and make some damn music. Does everyone want this right now? NO. Will lots of people? I bet they might. And whether they do or not, its a game changer, and personally, I think we all benefit from that. Especially since the only place that this progress can go is up. Everyone is going to bring their two cents to the table now, or end up looking like Cool Edit Pro.

I like technology and innovation, and when people push it to be something different, that RULES. People pissed on PT for years too, look at it now? Pro Tools is the Kleenex of audio. Yes it has the best editing and prob the best internal mixing, but you can piss on all of that too. If you don't suck at what you do you'll make anything sound good, and anyone who's good will tell you that cause that's what they do. If you're not, get better. Pro Tools won't make you better, hell, delay comp won't make you better! The tools are obviously important, and I'm not here to downplay that or tell you that the Beatles would have used Cool Edit Pro instead cause they only need 4 tracks. Bugger off with that crap. We are pros here, we want "pro" tools, mind the pun. But if when the going gets weird, the weird turn pro, what happens when pro gets weird? Innovation my friends, that's why we're here. That's why I'm here, anyway. Not cause I'm chasing down a really expensive Blue Stripe 1176 or something (not that I wouldn't like one!).

I watched a great interview with Bruce Swedien yesterday and he said "its all about the music, its all about the music. If the music can be good and inspire me, I'll kill for it." Which, is what HE was about. And to illustrate my point, I can't even tell you how many times I've heard the Harrison Console he used ripped to shreds as a horrible sounding console on this web site....you'd think it was a Behringer! But its pretty obvious what he did with it. So who cares. Great music will be made with this software, and hopefully they'll lose less sleep over setting it up. That's the reason I'd like to try it. Not cause it will replace me going to Avatar and mixing my record, but hey, never know. Last time I looked at most of the plugins I use, they're emulations and approximations of everything I like. This is just one big plug-in. Sounds good to me! I say let the games begin. The real mixoff is going to be between the coders. I would like to make music. I can do that on anything, but currently I use Pro Tools HD. Honestly, that's just cause of the editing for the most part. Its easier. Give me the same ease of editing and something native that sounds as good, and I'll switch. I don't care. I don't think most people do either. Making it harder to use is retarded. Look to Logic if you want your life more complicated (no offense Logic...we're cool). Or while I'm at it, DP if you want stability...just kidding! (about it being stable that is...its not). Maybe I should be a Nuendo user....haha. Ok, I'm done. I should have gone to sleep long ago but this intrigues me.

I'm excited for this, no matter what happens. You should be too

[topperf]

No-Doz, I couldn't agree more.

"Everyone stops caring about the shit that doesn't matter and starts making better music, and the reign of wasting all your time instead of making more music ENDS. This is the future, and its here. Join up. Consoles are awesome, hardware is awesome, but don't look at this and laugh. Its the way its gonna be and you know it."

You speak the truth, brother.

[nurfen]

LOL, I love when they show the POD guitar presets, everything sounds like crap. Heh.

[Shan]

I'm looking forward to seeing the first hardware controller for the mixer section.

Shane

[CDS]

No-Doz, very good perspective.

It is also exciting to see how the other players such as Digi rise to the occasion to make their products better.

I just really feel that all the tools available today are so way over powered compared to the hardware units of the past.

As for Record, as you say it makes things sound better, faster, and that was always the big stigma standing between "studio" and "home studio" material.

To a person who buy music or follow a particular artist, they would never be able to tell the difference of a song done in Avatar or Record or for that matter care.

The bottom line is, there should be no reason why anyone could not get exactly what their musical vision is by using a single or compilation of these tools in your space on your own time.

[M2E]

Originally Posted by poshook

I owned waves SSL but included channel strip compressos was not as tight as this in Record and it made the sound thinner. This is my oppinion and I you can think something different

Pos,

What settings did you use? I'll A/B it to see what the difference is.

Thanx

[digitalson]

i just got the beta last night and boo hoo.....no adapting loops to project tempo.....its the little things that make software cool....stretching is good ...multi export is awesome......just a normal reason song sounds much better with the mixer....more to come

[poshook]

Originally Posted by digitalson

i just got the beta last night and boo hoo.....no adapting loops to project tempo.....its the little things that make software cool....stretching is good ...multi export is awesome......just a normal reason song sounds much better with the mixer....more to come

yes, this is absolutely absonant. they have amazing algorithm for timestretching but you can not use it for individual tracks...really strange

[badmark]

Originally Posted by digitalson

no adapting loops to project tempo

wtf?

Originally Posted by CDS

Some people want to take the steps to the 30th floor while others take the elevator, thats just the way it is.

mmkay

Sounds like this elevator don't make it to the top ...

[BosseBo]

Originally Posted by digitalson

i just got the beta last night and boo hoo.....no adapting loops to project tempo.....its the little things that make software cool....stretching is good ...multi export is awesome......just a normal reason song sounds much better with the mixer....more to come

Both right and wrong... if you know the tempo of the loop then you can always change the project to that tempo while importing the file. And then it will work. REX files always adjust to the tempo you're in when imported. But you can't stretch just one file by grabbing it and shorten it or make it longer. Get yor self a copy of Recycle. That won't help much though if you want the files out of tempo. Still it has the best EQs I've heard in the software world ever. I't doesn't matter if people with huge consoles beg to differ, those people are not the mayority of music consumers. I for one don't se the need for me to buy a summingmixer or channel strip. This sounds so good that I don't care if it's true to the original or not. Music fans won't care either... but the people who actually pay for the music they listen to are soon a crowd of the same size as those owning a huge mixingdesk.


Walk in Peace
/Bosse (still awful at spelling and grammar)

[CDS]

Sorry Jules, but this guy has been on my back from the beginning of this thread. He had his friends come in and attack me also. I didn't go crying to the admins, I simply challenged all of them to a mix challenge with Record vs whatever they wanted to use and yet they were allowed to continue their banter.

When did this place become so soft? There was a time when guys would have jumped at the chance to prove (with a poll) that something like Record can not possibly deliver. Maybe there is nothing left to prove.

[badmark]

Originally Posted by CDS

He had his friends come in and attack me also.

Really CDS,wtf?

Substantiate or retract, please!

I have no friends, relatives or acquaintances on here.

I can't help it if (some) people agree with me. All part of the process. You don't like the process, don't participate.

It's hardly my (or the other deleted poster's) fault that you insist on weakening your case by making such absurd statements as now (or until Jules takes his razor to it) immortalized in my signature.

mark

... hey CDS, respect to you, at least you haven't sent me a snarky PM, unlike some people whose noses I've managed to get up round here, so I'm not really gonna stay mad at you for long! Have a good weekend!

[CDS]

Originally Posted by badmark

Really CDS,wtf?

Substantiate or retract, please!

I have no friends, relatives or acquaintances on here.

I can't help it if (some) people agree with me. All part of the process. You don't like the process, don't participate.

It's hardly my (or the other deleted poster's) fault that you insist on weakening your case by making such absurd statements as now (or until Jules takes his razor to it) immortalized in my signature.

mark

... hey CDS, respect to you, at least you haven't sent me a snarky PM, unlike some people whose noses I've managed to get up round here, so I'm not really gonna stay mad at you for long! Have a good weekend!

I have never been mad at you or anyone here, I just enjoy competitive and heated conversations, it could be the Aries in me.

But the dudes with the Neve comes off as your buddies. So this is what I am talking about.

About your signature: any industry that require the greatest recording artist of all time to kill himself prepping for a 50 date engagement in 1 single place, I feel this way.

After everything MJ did for the music business, he should not have needed to work another day in his life.

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by CDS

As for Record, as you say it makes things sound better, faster, and that was always the big stigma standing between "studio" and "home studio" material.

To a person who buy music or follow a particular artist, they would never be able to tell the difference of a song done in Avatar or Record or for that matter care.

The difference in sound between most home studios and places like Avatar (I think you meant the studio), is that the bigger places have great acoustics, great mic's, great preamps, and not to forget great engineers, there's very few homestudios that can compete with that.

Can Record compete with Pro Tools? Maybe it can, if you take all the factors I mentioned above and then record in Garageband, it'll still sound better than a recording done on PT HD in a mediocre homestudio.

Someone mentioned that he found Reason doesn't sound very good, so his expectaction that Record would also have a sound to his dislike is very reasonable. Offcourse without hearing it, it's impossible to tell if it sounds bad.

Are you using Record?

[CDS]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

The difference in sound between most home studios and places like Avatar (I think you meant the studio), is that the bigger places have great acoustics, great mic's, great preamps, and not to forget great engineers, there's very few homestudios that can compete with that.

Are you using Record?

Yes I agree 100% with you, but I feel that many of the artist/producers of today do not use those advantages of a professional space, and with the MP3 generation, those things get lost in encoding.

I am a Record beta tester on Mac and Windows 7.

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by CDS

and with the MP3 generation, those things get lost in encoding.
.

To each his own opinion, but I don't think that the detail that gets lost, is exactly the same as the extra value that a better studio provides.

A good quality recording will sound better encoded as an mp3 than a 'bad' quality recording. Shit in = shit out.

Nowadays maybe less of the room is present in the sound, but even when close-mic'ed the room adds to the sound, home brewed stuff usually still sounds smaller and honky...

[badmark]

Originally Posted by CDS

About your signature: any industry that require the greatest recording artist of all time to kill himself prepping for a 50 date engagement in 1 single place, I feel this way.

After everything MJ did for the music business, he should not have needed to work another day in his life.

Yeah, well, the operative word is "industry" rather than "you U.K. people" wouldn't you say? If I were to replace what you said with "you U.S. people" and "John Lennon", I think you might object!

And I'm not sure we can 100% blame the "music business" as such for what happened. What about his father (as a father rather than a manager)? And after all, no one compelled MJ to live so very far beyond his means that he had to take on such an absurdly punishing schedule. RIP anyway.

Sorry, off topic again ...

[CDS]

Originally Posted by badmark

Yeah, well, the operative word is "industry" rather than "you U.K. people" wouldn't you say? If I were to replace what you said with "you U.S. people" and "John Lennon", I think you might object!

I wouldn't. I rip apart every copy of The Catcher and The Rye i ever come across, but that's just me.

[badmark]

Originally Posted by CDS

I wouldn't. I rip apart every copy of The Catcher and The Rye i ever come across, but that's just me.

Cool! That's one of those books I spent my school and college years avoiding reading. You might enjoy the novels of Manuel Vazquez Montalban; his detective hero Pepe Carvalho uses books he doesn't like as firewood.

[BosseBo]

Originally Posted by digitalson

i just got the beta last night and boo hoo.....no adapting loops to project tempo.....its the little things that make software cool....stretching is good ...multi export is awesome......just a normal reason song sounds much better with the mixer....more to come

Sorry you're wrong there. Read the manual and you'll se just what to do. It's just a different process than the usual ones. But the main target for a program like Record are people who don't like the same old working process as every DAW uses. It's mainly a musicians tool.
The fact that it's sounds so good and is so much fun to work with, that’s just a side effect. Those who base their idea on what it sounds like by drawing parallels to Reason are wrong. Mostly because if you can't make Reason (not Record) sound good then it's your own fault. If it's good enough for will i. am and Richard Barbieri (ex Japan) then it's plainly good enough.
Interesting thing in this whole discussion is that George Massenburg recently said (in a Swedish musicians magazine) that if you can't make a mix sound as good in the box as with outboard gear then it's your fault. He wasn't saying that you shouldn't use consoles or whatever. If you enjoy to work like that, then do it. But he said you don't get a better sound with outboard gear. I actually thinks he knows more than most people here. More than me, that's for sure.
So what’s going on here is not a debate about the program Record. It's the same old "Duke Ellington that’s just jungle noise", upset parent 1930. "Elvis that's not proper music. It's disgusting" , upset parent 1956. "Beatles that’s just for boys who need a haircut" upset parent 1964. "Hip hop that's just talk and drums. That's not music" upset parent 1984-2009. But the hit-charts always said something different.
Continuing this thought, I saw a TV-show with Elvis Costello the other day where The Police guest appeared. It was from 2008 I guess. Those guys where excellent musicians all three, and still they where smart enough in 1977 to see what Punk and New Wave was really about. 2-3 minute songs with power and attitude. And they took all their skills into that instead of continuing in prog and jazzbands. (I was a punk rocker myself, so they were sort of a guilty pleasure for me at the time (and I was only13 when I made my first record)) They didn’t hold back on their skills they used it for pop instead of doing something people cared less and less about.
Few years later I played in a band where we had a Prophet five. I love that synth. I love to play with the nobs. It does not sound better than reason though. I’ve recorded with large Neve consoles (not that often though to be honest). Love those nobs aswell. But Record that’s development and an equalizer. It makes as with less means more equal. Now all I need is for someone to create the virtual studio room. With all the acoustics. I’ll always love real nobs and rooms, but I’m more interested in the future (still at the age 45)
I think it would be nice to actually talk abut a new program and not being told by some conservatives that I'm wrong. So those of you who thinks the world is going to hell and there is something wrong with the kids today. I’ve heard all you have to say before and yes I will hear it again.

Dyslektik and awful grammar as usual.
/Bosse