TL Audio 16:2 Summing Mixer

matt82aust · 25th June 2008, 11:00 PM

My apologies if this has been mentioned, but thought was worth sharing.

TL Audio 16:2 Summing Mixer

I haven't heard many user reviews about these Ebony series yet, i hope they aren't as "bandwagon bashed" as other TL products!

Lifer · 26th June 2008, 12:13 AM

The one glaring omission on this product seems to be the lack of separate recording output. I would have been keen to try this but it's no good to me if i cant record the summing back to the computer whilst listening to it

Duardo · 26th June 2008, 03:49 PM

It would be nice to have one...but if you're recording back into the computer wouldn't you just monitor the tracks you're recording back to through your normal monitoring chain?

Lifer · 26th June 2008, 06:22 PM

I don't have a monitoring chain! I mix directly in the box and the outputs from my Pro Tools rig go straight to my powered monitors.
For me the whole point of a product like this is to be able to sum multiple stems outside the box and get a better /warmer sound..no use if it doesn't have record outs tho!

Duardo · 26th June 2008, 10:02 PM

Sure, you could still use this in your setup...but your tracks to individual outs to feed the inputs of the summing box, then bring the outputs of the summing box back into Pro Tools on a stereo track. You send the output of that track to you speakers just like you've got things routed now...

For what it's worth, the box does have record outs...it's separate monitor outs that it doesn't have...

computa · 26th June 2008, 11:40 PM

curious as to what it sounds like. some tl audio stuff is good, some is....

Lifer · 27th June 2008, 02:26 AM

I see your work around..but thats a PITA to be honest..i'd rather go for a more professional solution..as that means a double trip round the converters and as far as i'm concerned..defeats the object.

narco · 27th June 2008, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lifer

I see your work around..but thats a PITA to be honest..i'd rather go for a more professional solution..as that means a double trip round the converters and as far as i'm concerned..defeats the object.

and gives you fewer channels to sum

narco

LaLaFaV · 27th June 2008, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lifer

I see your work around..but thats a PITA to be honest..i'd rather go for a more professional solution..as that means a double trip round the converters and as far as i'm concerned..defeats the object.

So you mean that you record your summed mix to an analog 2 track? Otherwise, you'll always hit converters again during your mixdown. It will eventually have to be "digitized" again anyway if you don't plan on listening from analog tape only. I wouldn't be worried about another conversion if you have decent converters.

Duardo · 27th June 2008, 09:56 PM

Quote:

I see your work around..but thats a PITA to be honest..i'd rather go for a more professional solution..as that means a double trip round the converters and as far as i'm concerned..defeats the object.

A more professional solution would be some sort of monitor controller...or a patchbay could even split the signal for you. But I'm not sure how doing it the way I mentioned is any less "professional" than the way you have it set up now...I would think you'd want to hear the signal that goes back into your DAW to make sure that you're not clipping, etc...

Quote:

and gives you fewer channels to sum

I guess that would be the case if you have sixteen channels (or less) of D/A conversion...but there again, a monitor controller would help.

Lifer · 28th June 2008, 03:58 AM

Just look at how Neve does it with the 8816...
There really is no need for the complex routing you guys are suggesting!
The bottom line is that this is a budget summer compared to the Neve or the Dangerous 2 bus etc..i just think they left out something very important.
As it happens..I do like to mix to analogue half inch and sometimes to the Korg DSD recorder if capturing the analogue tone of something. I often run the System 6000 at double the sample rate of a session on an analogue desk as the difference is amazing when captured at DSD rates. I prefer to take the DSD unit in to the mastering house and master from that.
I wasn't trying to be dismissive of anyones helpful suggestions here, just pointing out that the fact that there needs to be other equipment in this solution seems pointless to me as a summer should really contain the solution within itself (a la 8816). As it is, I think this has sold the Neve to me

dougb415 · 28th June 2008, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lifer

I don't have a monitoring chain! I mix directly in the box and the outputs from my Pro Tools rig go straight to my powered monitors.
For me the whole point of a product like this is to be able to sum multiple stems outside the box and get a better /warmer sound..no use if it doesn't have record outs tho!

Wouldn't this solve the problem?

TL Audio DO-2 - Digital Output Card

Lifer · 28th June 2008, 03:35 PM

Hadn't seen that option. Again good for budget summer..but i don't think i would want to use such a cheap converter/clock unless it was the only option.I have always shyed away from these type of add on converters.
I would have still preferred an extra analogue output option so i could use my own choice of digital converter.
Personally i would spend the extra and get something like the Neve since it has good monitoring facilities too (albeit for a considerable premium)..but i think it's great that someone has brought out a summing mixer at such a low price..a few years ago i would have snapped one up. Lets hope more companies follow suit.

IxtabStudios · 28th June 2008, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lifer

Just look at how Neve does it with the 8816...
...As it is, I think this has sold the Neve to me

The Neve is pretty much a mixer more than a summer. It has pans and with the fader pack even an aux send, not to mention full monitoring, talkback and phones. It's quite different from most summing mixers out there such as the SPL, TLA, etc...

As for an extra conversion, I might be old school but I tend to listen to the very end of the audio chain, which includes the final conversion of the 2tk – but as long as your not obviously running too hot I don't think it really makes a difference...

Duardo · 29th June 2008, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Just look at how Neve does it with the 8816...
There really is no need for the complex routing you guys are suggesting!

See, I look at it the opposite way...the monitoring on the 8816 is a little bit limited, and I'd rather have my choice of monitoring options...

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree that it would have been a good idea to put a second set of outs on this thing...but at the same time, the routing we're talking about is not at all complex. It's pretty much the same way you've got it set up now as I understand it...the only thing that's changed is the introduction of the summer.

Like IxtabStudios, I prefer to monitor at the very end of thigns...when I haven't I've been bitten in the ass on several occasions, and it's always been something that was my fault that could have been avoided if I'd have been monitoring the output of my mixdown device...

Mr. Landmark · 30th June 2008, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lifer

The one glaring omission on this product seems to be the lack of separate recording output. I would have been keen to try this but it's no good to me if i cant record the summing back to the computer whilst listening to it

What about using the insert sends as an extra pair of outputs, wouldn't that be possible?

Lifer · 30th June 2008, 01:45 AM

Heh..dunno..probably
I wouldn't want to do it that way...
I tried the Neve and the Speck summing "mixers" and both were lovely sounding.
The monitoring on the Neve was a nice bonus (like the Chandler) and the Speck can do 32 channels!
Will wait and try the 2 bus and Chandler before deciding.
I definately would rather spend the extra ££'s than try to monitor my mix back into the PT and out of the PT system's converters again though! I always prefer to check my mix back for errors etc after it's done anyway.
The TLA looks great value for those on a serious budget ..cant see it competing sonically with any of the others however

...but i'm sure TLA would be first to agree that it was never meant to.

Duardo · 30th June 2008, 10:26 AM

Quote:

The TLA looks great value for those on a serious budget ..cant see it competing sonically with any of the others however ...but i'm sure TLA would be first to agree that it was never meant to.

What makes you so sure? I highly doubt that they'd agree that it wasn't meant to compete sonically with the others on the market...if not, why even sell it? And it's not an inexpensive box...

SarahTLA · 17th July 2008, 11:29 AM

Hi guys,

I just thought i'd add a little input from TLA on this.

The Ebony A4 Summer is a great sounding piece of gear and uses a completely Discrete Class A signal path (no IC's), with additional, optional tube stage with variable control and balanced insert points.

Its designed to give an excellent sound, at top quality but be very easy and quick to set up and use.

The insert points are fully balanced so you could, as previously mentioned use the insert sends as an additional output.

Having easy to use features means that we can offer the best value Discrete Class A or Tube summing mixer on the market.

I would urge people to check out the Ebony series, the comments i've had so far that far from having a budget sound, they more than hold their own against products 2 to 3 times the price... perhaps we should charge more...? :-)

All Ebony products are hand made in UK, as with the rest of the TL Audio line.

If any one has any questions, please get in touch.

Thanks,

Sarah Yule

TL Audio (sarahyule@tlaudio.co.uk)

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25th June 2008, 11:00 PM	#1
matt82aust Gear nut Join Date: May 2006 Location: Sydney Posts: 139	TL Audio 16:2 Summing Mixer My apologies if this has been mentioned, but thought was worth sharing. TL Audio 16:2 Summing Mixer I haven't heard many user reviews about these Ebony series yet, i hope they aren't as "bandwagon bashed" as other TL products! __________________ Matt Perrott Sound Engineer - Sandcastle Studios, Australia

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26th June 2008, 12:13 AM	#2
Lifer Gear Head Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: UK Posts: 42	The one glaring omission on this product seems to be the lack of separate recording output. I would have been keen to try this but it's no good to me if i cant record the summing back to the computer whilst listening to it

26th June 2008, 03:49 PM	#3
Duardo Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,906	It would be nice to have one...but if you're recording back into the computer wouldn't you just monitor the tracks you're recording back to through your normal monitoring chain?

26th June 2008, 06:22 PM	#4
Lifer Gear Head Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: UK Posts: 42	I don't have a monitoring chain! I mix directly in the box and the outputs from my Pro Tools rig go straight to my powered monitors. For me the whole point of a product like this is to be able to sum multiple stems outside the box and get a better /warmer sound..no use if it doesn't have record outs tho!

26th June 2008, 10:02 PM	#5
Duardo Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,906	Sure, you could still use this in your setup...but your tracks to individual outs to feed the inputs of the summing box, then bring the outputs of the summing box back into Pro Tools on a stereo track. You send the output of that track to you speakers just like you've got things routed now... For what it's worth, the box does have record outs...it's separate monitor outs that it doesn't have...

26th June 2008, 11:40 PM	#6
computa Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 839	curious as to what it sounds like. some tl audio stuff is good, some is....

27th June 2008, 02:26 AM	#7
Lifer Gear Head Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: UK Posts: 42	I see your work around..but thats a PITA to be honest..i'd rather go for a more professional solution..as that means a double trip round the converters and as far as i'm concerned..defeats the object.

28th June 2008, 03:58 AM	#11
Lifer Gear Head Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: UK Posts: 42	Just look at how Neve does it with the 8816... There really is no need for the complex routing you guys are suggesting! The bottom line is that this is a budget summer compared to the Neve or the Dangerous 2 bus etc..i just think they left out something very important. As it happens..I do like to mix to analogue half inch and sometimes to the Korg DSD recorder if capturing the analogue tone of something. I often run the System 6000 at double the sample rate of a session on an analogue desk as the difference is amazing when captured at DSD rates. I prefer to take the DSD unit in to the mastering house and master from that. I wasn't trying to be dismissive of anyones helpful suggestions here, just pointing out that the fact that there needs to be other equipment in this solution seems pointless to me as a summer should really contain the solution within itself (a la 8816). As it is, I think this has sold the Neve to me

28th June 2008, 03:35 PM	#13
Lifer Gear Head Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: UK Posts: 42	Hadn't seen that option. Again good for budget summer..but i don't think i would want to use such a cheap converter/clock unless it was the only option.I have always shyed away from these type of add on converters. I would have still preferred an extra analogue output option so i could use my own choice of digital converter. Personally i would spend the extra and get something like the Neve since it has good monitoring facilities too (albeit for a considerable premium)..but i think it's great that someone has brought out a summing mixer at such a low price..a few years ago i would have snapped one up. Lets hope more companies follow suit.

30th June 2008, 01:45 AM	#17
Lifer Gear Head Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: UK Posts: 42	Heh..dunno..probably I wouldn't want to do it that way... I tried the Neve and the Speck summing "mixers" and both were lovely sounding. The monitoring on the Neve was a nice bonus (like the Chandler) and the Speck can do 32 channels! Will wait and try the 2 bus and Chandler before deciding. I definately would rather spend the extra ££'s than try to monitor my mix back into the PT and out of the PT system's converters again though! I always prefer to check my mix back for errors etc after it's done anyway. The TLA looks great value for those on a serious budget ..cant see it competing sonically with any of the others however ...but i'm sure TLA would be first to agree that it was never meant to.

17th July 2008, 11:29 AM	#19
SarahTLA Gear interested Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 24	Hi guys, I just thought i'd add a little input from TLA on this. The Ebony A4 Summer is a great sounding piece of gear and uses a completely Discrete Class A signal path (no IC's), with additional, optional tube stage with variable control and balanced insert points. Its designed to give an excellent sound, at top quality but be very easy and quick to set up and use. The insert points are fully balanced so you could, as previously mentioned use the insert sends as an additional output. Having easy to use features means that we can offer the best value Discrete Class A or Tube summing mixer on the market. I would urge people to check out the Ebony series, the comments i've had so far that far from having a budget sound, they more than hold their own against products 2 to 3 times the price... perhaps we should charge more...? :-) All Ebony products are hand made in UK, as with the rest of the TL Audio line. If any one has any questions, please get in touch. Thanks, Sarah Yule TL Audio (sarahyule@tlaudio.co.uk)