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| | #301 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: UK
Posts: 995
| Haha thanks Geert, just forced it to life with non DHCP IP addresses. Just testing in Cubase on MBP now. Two issues already: Sonalksis, URS and PSP plugs map to encoders and work, but value displayed on encoder is one behind that of the actual plugin. Ie the stepped encoders provide two values in the actual plug in, say 1.5dB and 3 dB... Tango is showing 3 and 4.5 dB as the readouts, thus not being true to the processing. However plugin instantiation and window open and close is better than in Logic. Other issue so far, the temp locate points (one of my fav features) don't work, press and hold to store a point and when recalling it just places the playhead at the end of the Cubase session... More later. -Tom |
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| | #302 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: UK
Posts: 995
| OK just finished a little mix in Cubase with the Tango. I had some issues, but in short it was very very nice and I am already getting used to it, speeding up and I'm not sure I could mix in the box again without one! The good:
The bad:
The ugly:
Other stuff: Adding FX channels in Cubase causes the Tango to pause for second or two while it updates and adds the channel to the surface. Not a biggie, as these can then be available in the routing tab etc. It's nice that everything appears on the surface right away (without having to assign a buss to arrange page like in Logic). What I'd like to see: Memory function extended to allow copying of inserts... would provide Cubase with some features I really like in Logic and ProTools (alt-click+drag plugs in PT). The bugs: When looking at the main mix insert (I mixed into a Sonalksis comp) the Tango said my insert was a URS A EQ but it wasn't and the encoders displayed the Sonalksis compression parameters, so that seems to be a bug. Removing a send in Cubase sometimes didn't update on the Tango so it would look like I had a few sends assigned or active, they could even be turned on and adjusted on the Tango, but Cubase didn't even have a send on slot 2, so watch that. However a quick save and re-open of the project sorted it out. Likewise a resync of the tango engine would do it. Although there are a few bugs and a few things not there yet, on the whole this is the best controller I have used by a long way. I have tried Duality, AWS900, Matrix, Mackie Control, Euphonix Sys5-MC, Alphatrack, D-Command, ProjectMix, Command-8, Houston, Yamaha desks... yea many cannot be compared, but the Sys5 is getting hammered here by the Tango. Tango with Cubase 4 is on the whole very very powerful. And it should only get better. Couple with a nice small analogue mixer/backend and it would be a great hybrid system. Sit it along side a LFC and it would be a great hands on tool for a DAW operator. -Tom |
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| | #303 | |||
| Mac Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 3,148
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| | #304 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: UK
Posts: 995
| Good news Geert! I'm not bothered about the plugins as I know this is what Cubase reports the controls to read. So its fine with me. I'm 100% all the little things will get solved over time. SmartAV seem to have really been on top of the updates alread. Need to find out more about the new software for Nuendo/Cubase - I hear it is very very cool. -T |
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| | #305 |
| Gear nut Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 79
| Great info... I am thinking of buying the Tango so this post is very valuable. Stav put me in touch with Emerging - Home they are the UK distributor. |
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| | #306 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: UK
Posts: 995
| Had my first demo with Emerging, they are good to deal with. I need to contact them again actually... Talk to Chris or Andrew there - I believe Andrew is the Tango expert... -T |
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| | #307 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: UK
Posts: 995
| A few more thoughts - would love to hear Houstons views, especially as he's a Nuendo guy. Can I just saw how completely and utterly ridulously cool the edit panel is? So easy to set up, I had a blast with that this morning. I found a few cool ways to set it up for adding new tracks to a project, cycle markers etc. Trying to find a cunning way to let me rename tracks from the editpanel/virtkey without having to use the mouse to double click. Anyway I would love to see (disclaimer it may do some of this already, it is DEEP!): The ability to hide the Cubase Dyn/EQ on the main display. I would like these replaced by an enlarged insert and send view, where I can access individual window open buttons for each plug-in on an insert - and turn them on and off, assign sends etc. With the free screen real estate cleared by removing the EQ/Dyn slots - I would love to see an input source assign. The output assign in the pan section is great but I'd like to see one for assigning inputs. Which leads on to my next point: What makes PT so fast is the target specific and sequential assign modes for inputs etc. Now I know some of this is available in other DAWs, but I would love to see the Tango allow me to apply a control to a selection. The way I see Tango - it is like a computer assistant with 100 hands that can press and fade at once, all without the DAW ever knowing. Thus I feel these kind of things could be done. It would even the playing field betwen all platforms. For example - I would like to select tracks 1-8 by wiping on the Arc or inject points and then perform sequential assigns for inputs... tracking would be very quick. Essentially do the kind of things Duality can do in the analogue routing domain. I'd like to see copy/paste on inserts - effectively Tango could copy the plugin parameters and then load a new one on a designated track and then paste the settings in, this should be possible on Tango even if the DAW can't (Cubase for example - Logic and PT murder it here). Route selection would be nice, so I could just wipe across the Arc/Injects to route all my drums to my drumbuss. Mono tracks in Cubase that go to a mono group still display a pan crosshair - I would love to see that removed to reflect the fact there is no panner in Cubase. A stereo track with two independant panners (L+R) - not tried yet, but I'm not sure if it displays two pan crosshairs, or how you actually access each side. On the Arc you can minimise your groups (flatten or expand), which means I can collapse 13 tracks of drums onto a single fader to increase the efficiency of the 8 faders on the controller (once I have the group set) - however whilst the MonArc displays a flattened group, the faders and controller display still see all 13. Therefore it only saves MonArc space and not fader space, I'm sure this worked in Pyramix when I got a demo?? Anyone? Do i have to wipe mode the channels I want, leaving one on the surface that is in the group? I found a few issues with Cubase automation today. You can put a track in read or read/write but I couldn't turn auto off once enabled without manually doing it in the DAW, seems like a bug? -Tom |
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| | #308 |
| Mac Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 3,148
| I have little time, so I just read over your post quickly. If you want to turn of automation on a track, can't you hit 'isolate' and then select the track or range of tracks on the MonArc? |
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| | #309 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: UK
Posts: 995
| Thanks, will try that again tomorrow. I'm sure I did (can't remember), but I'm busy too, trying to cram it all in and give this thing a deep test while I have it. -T |
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| | #310 |
| Gear nut Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 116
| I was thinking of getting this unit but with rumors that Euphonix releasing a new unit between MC pro and Artist series with decent price and to compete with this unit I think I will wait. These are all rumors but the rumors come from reliable sources. I think tango might have to cut prices on this unit to compete with Euphonix. Little disappointed that this unit did not take off as most would of thought but I guess its the steep price. This market imo is going to get very competitive. From what I heard Euphonix is going to dominate this market with their new unit but I guess it remains to be seen. |
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| | #311 | |
| Gear nut Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 106
| Quote:
The reason I was replying was your point about pricing... the cost of the main base unit will be going up on 15th April here in the UK by about £800 (about US$1100 as the exchange rate is right now) for the same reason as everything else going up I expect - weak pound and increasing import costs. There are similar increases on both of the extensions, but all in all it's about a 15% increase on each part. Mark
__________________ Audio Consultant Jigsaw Systems www.jigsaw24.com www.jigsawbroadcast.com mark.rickaby@jigsaw24.com Tel: (0870) 730-6804 | |
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| | #312 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: UK
Posts: 995
| I hadn't realised the Tango hadn't taken off? Euphonix are going to have to work hard to win over my mind, the MC5 is great but twice the cost of the MC and does almost half as much, twice as slowly. Fader grouping and ergonomic spreads on the Tango are so fast compared to sys5 MC. The Mix and Control seem to not be reliable at all, and while a full high end 5 system is amazing (swap mode etc) - the Tango is brilliant and getting better with each update. I really would recommend demo-ing one. I think it should be a solid platform for a very long time. -T |
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| | #313 | |
| Gear nut Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 116
| Quote:
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| | #314 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: UK
Posts: 995
| I personally thought the Tango was cheap for what it offered, but the price increase is a bummer. -T |
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| | #315 |
| Gear nut Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 106
| I agree with Tom - for what it does, the Tango sells at an amazing price. If it were any cheaper, it wouldn't do any justice to the quality of the unit. SmartAV know they have a really cool surface and that price doesn't sell it short... having said that, the price increase isn't wonderful news.
__________________ Audio Consultant Jigsaw Systems www.jigsaw24.com www.jigsawbroadcast.com mark.rickaby@jigsaw24.com Tel: (0870) 730-6804 |
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| | #316 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 426
| Tango is a very unique piece, I doubt that Euphonix will do anything unique compared to Tango and I would guess it would be made in China. Anyone that has actually seen/felt Tango would know how incredibly built it is, I just can't see Euphonix doing something this well built for the cost. Tango is built like a large format board. I can actually sit back and rest my feet on the arm rest of my 32 fader board! We shall see what comes! |
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| | #317 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: UK
Posts: 995
| Hey Stef how do you find setting up the edit panel in Logic/ProTools? Its stupidly good in Cubendo. With the forthcoming logic 9 I am very interested in that package combo - logc+tango. Curious about the new SSL DAW platform too - bit close to April Fools for me to believe it, but they have been developing the Sydec platform for a while and been super cagey about it. Good news though - old SS mixer had Hui implementation so I imagine it wouldn't be too tricky for SmartAV to get it running with the Soundscape mixer and then I'd love to see an actual engine for it eventually. -T |
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| | #318 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: UK
Posts: 995
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| | #319 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 426
| I haven't really gotten in deep programming the edit panel for Logic....just a few little things. I have programmed a nice one for ProTools however. I never use the keyboard now in PT sessions, it's brilliant!! Is Logic 9 around the corner? I have just had another week of exeptional mixing. UnFuching beleivable. |
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| | #320 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: UK
Posts: 995
| Good to know you are loving the edit panel with PT. I believe Logic 9 is very very close. I hope they get the editing and automation right, then I will switch to it. -T |
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| | #321 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 426
| Interesting!! Stef |
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| | #322 |
| Gear nut Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 87
| I've been busy of late - and haven't kept up with this thread as much recently. I'm in the middle of a reality show demo reel and have just finished the sound design and rough mix with temp music in place. Now I get to go through and create a tempo map based on the temp and then get to work on the music tomorrow (the fun part). I'm really enjoying working with the Tango both against Nuendo 4 and Cubase 5. The way I'm working now has "matured" a bit since the first round of videos I created at the beginning of the year. As I create new Edit Panel layouts I'll publish them for other folks to try out - though it will take some work "under the hood" to place some macros, project logical editor presets and other host-side files in place in order for everything to work. I'm really loving the macro buttons on the extension bay - it really speeds up the workflow on everything from applying Alt+SHIFT to slip audio events using the mouse to triggering PLE presets and saving/exporting the project. it's really amazing how fast I can move around a project now. I hope to do some new videos soon to show some of that workflow, but for now I've got to get back to the project. |
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| | #323 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: UK
Posts: 995
| One little update from Musikmesse. My issue with the Cubase transport temp locators was my fault. Apparently if you set the Cubase transport to display time-code, the Tango can lock to it and then the temp locators on the right hand side of the unit will work in Cubase and not jump to the end of the project. So that should be solved. I was told the forthcoming software update should allow users to reconfig the entire display to show what you want, in colours of your choice etc. This is huge for me. I was also told a multi-point touchscreen version may be in the works in a year or so. There may or should be a possible upgrade plan for single touch Tango users, but to be honest I'm not sure how much multi-touch would bring to the table. Tango is great as is. Messe was cool. -T |
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| | #324 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 426
| Yeah, that's another brilliant thing about the console, I think Joe and co have got some great stuff planned....... How was musikmesse? Being down here I don't get the chance to do the big shows, I think we have a SMPTE convention here this year however which is always pretty cool. Did you meet David Hannay? I'm currently mixing a Jazz guitar album that I produced and played on and Tango makes life sooooooooo good. I actually love the board more now than when I first got it. Stef |
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| | #325 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: UK
Posts: 995
| Messe is cool, very large. To be fair, what with a few beers in the evenings - we didn't get to see everything we wanted. I only caught a distro on the Smart AV booth instead of a developer/SmartAV member, which would have been cool as I have some questions. I hear there is some great stuff planned though. I really want to see input assign like you can outputs. I also would like to see stereo metering. Plus the plugin list cache in Logic. I'm pretty much convinced I am migrating to Logic and that part is annoying as even the little Euphonix Artist series can do input/output routing and plugin instantiation is very fast. Sends can also be assigned there - so Tango needs some stuff to beat it there. In terms of pure speed and unlocking your mind from the computer, Tango cannot be beaten. -T |
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| | #326 |
| Gear interested Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: El Paso, TX
Posts: 1
| How well does that Tango work with both Logic 8 & Pro Tools 8? I will be ordering mine next week Tuesday, and have researched all the info that I could find on line. Seeing that you have hands-on experience, I was hoping that you could give me some insight. (*) What is a good front-end for Logic with the Tango, because I am looking to move away from the DIGI 003 (replace it with a rack for PT 8). I've been looking at the Apogee Symphony set-up & the Apogee Ensemble. I will still need to connect my outboard gear. Thanks |
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| | #327 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: UK
Posts: 995
| Apogee rig is decent. Just got an Ensemble myself to run with my portable rig, Tango included. I will let you know what I think. Just spent most of my week working on a Prism Orpheus and have been very impressed. Nice thing is you can stack them (up to 12 at 44.1) I think, which the Ensemble can't do. If you need more and can afford Orpheus, Apogee AD/DAX series or SSL Alpha all worth a look at various price points. Tango rocks by the way. Just got mine a few days ago. -T |
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| | #328 | |
| Gear nut Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 87
| Tango firmware version 2.3.4 released Just a quick FYI - SmartAV has released a new set of firmware for their Tango console with some major enhancements for all platforms. Aside from HUI support for Pro Tools, they've also done some major re-factoring across the board (for all engines) to streamline the mapping of remote commands to Edit Panels/Keys/Buttons. Also, the Nuendo interface now supports MIDI and Instrument channels - and now maps Quick Controls to the rotary encoders for direct access to track parameters. This is a really big deal for being able to control/automate plug-ins and instruments from the Tango Console. Here's a detailed list of all of the fixes/features for Nuendo/Cubase: Quote:
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| | #329 |
| Lives for gear | Good lord at the pages. I might have missed this but can you assign what EQ you would like to open when using the tango with logic?
__________________ Bob Sandifer My wife says my memory is getting bad. Oh yea. My wife said my memory is getting bad. Huh? ........................ MY FACEBOOK |
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| | #330 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 426
| Yep, you can choose to assign either Channel EQ or Linear Phase EQ. Goto System/User Interface/Configure. Stef |
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