Roland Fantom G...didn't see this posted anywhere else...

[elambo]

Originally Posted by Crandak

Take it home when it was paid for.

Then you were just asking for a layaway. And they wouldn't let you do that? Odd.

[Crandak]

Originally Posted by elambo

Then you were just asking for a layaway. And they wouldn't let you do that? Odd.

If you want to consider 2 weeks layaway. Doesn't matter, I won't be buying my motif xs from them either. Hope it was worth it for them to lose thousands in future business just so they could sell it on the spot.

I am still considering picking up a sonic cell to go with the motif since it's essentially a baby G anyway. They told me they had it for blah blah... but today only! I said "what's the matter with you people! don't you realize the internet is littered with pimps just waiting to undercut your today only deal?"

I guess they must rely on the locals who don't have an internet connection and can be told that their clearance stock of triton's are the hottest keyboard on the market!

[Animus]

Originally Posted by Trell Blaze

Itant capture.

I mix on Cubase everyday. MIDI sequencing is a big pain in the ass and the thought of having to compose an entire song in Cubase makes me want to retire from all things musical.

he MIDI tracks are already set...

Different strokes for different folks I guess. Cubase/Nuendo is about as easy or as complicated as you want to get in sequencing. You can setup up templates with armed midi tracks and vsti's already loaded and ready to go.

[Trell Blaze]

Originally Posted by Animus

Different strokes for different folks I guess. Cubase/Nuendo is about as easy or as complicated as you want to get in sequencing. You can setup up templates with armed midi tracks and vsti's already loaded and ready to go.

That depends on your style of sequencing. For mine it requires too much mouse clicking.

I LOVE Cubase for mixing though.

[mutiger]

Interesting conversation.

I tend to agree with most of the G bashing comments and I now own a G7. I sold a Fantom S to get something newer and with 76 keys. I wasn't overly impressed with the G, but GC was blowing them out a couple weeks ago so I figured what the heck. Sound-wise this keyboard is a mild evolutionary step forward and I agree that 256 megs of sounds on a "flagship" keyboard is an absolute joke. Roland does a decent job with this limited amount of space, but I don't understand either why they have to choke themselves with such a small sample set when memory chips are so cheap nowadays. They need to hire some new, forward thinking people. The market is screaming for something better, but as of yet, nobody is delivering. M3, Motif? blah - they all suck to some degree.

Keyboards offer a level of convenience though and I guess that's why I bought another one. I haven't tried the sequencer yet, I'm hoping it'll be this keyboard's saving grace. I could see scratching something out on the G7 and then augmenting with soft synths later.

Also, for grins, this is me with my old S (among other things)

[Jahrome]

As an individual looking for a sampling keyboard workstation, the Fantom G needs some improvements:

1) More than 16 cops with sample preview from current address before chopping
2) Chopped samples playable from keys within the Chop menu
3) An option to assign a chopped sample to a multi-sampled patch
4) Sample editing: Extract, delete, silence, bit/sample rate converter, stereo sample to mono convert and vice versa, pitch shift
5) Undo button in the sample editing menus, with at least one level of undo
6) Load or delete multiple samples in one pass
7) Compatibility with Roland current and/or legacy formats (Fantom S/X, MV), Akai (S series, MPC files), etc
8) Edit and playback samples directly from USB flash devices
9) Non-destructive chopping - let chopped samples start/end points overlap
10) Grid edit for creating drum tracks
11) Independent Chord Function settings for each part. Currently, you have to enter F4 to enter Arp Part Number every time you want to use the Chord Function for a different part.
12) An easier way to assign multiple samples to a multisampled patch. Currently, it takes several button clicks just to assign one sample to a key. Doing this 61 times is tedious. I need to be able to assign multiple samples to a multisampled patch in one pass. Even a drag and drop sample function would be great.



The sequencer also needs some work.

1) Audio tracks recorded in stereo still display as mono track.
2) Cannot change Track Type (MIDI, Audio). By defaullt, the first 8 tracks are MIDI, the next 24 are audio, and the remainder re MIDI. Although you can recorder the tracks, it would be much easier if you can freely assign the Track Type like any other normal sequencer.
3) Audio track editing....No pitch shift in the audio track edit menu. How in the heck to I get my Kanye West on without this function?
4) Input Effects EQ needs improvement. A true 3 band parametric EQ would be nice. The two banc EQ provided has onlt two settings for the Low Frequency and 3 settings for the High Frequency.
5) An UNDO function is needed for the sequencer. I can't understand why this was left out.
6) Track Output Assign. It doesn't work correctly when the sequencer is playing.
7) Horizontal Bar below the track window doesn't work with the mouse.
8) And just like what I wrote about the sampler...the editing features of the Fantom G's audio tracks could use a significant upgrade. The improvements don't need to be anything out of the ordinary. But Roland could at least make sure the Fantom G has the basic editing functions like any of the leading workstations on the market..past and present.

[Trell Blaze]

Originally Posted by Jahrome

As an individual looking for a sampling keyboard workstation, the Fantom G needs some improvements:

1) More than 16 cops with sample preview from current address before chopping
2) Chopped samples playable from keys within the Chop menu
3) An option to assign a chopped sample to a multi-sampled patch
4) Sample editing: Extract, delete, silence, bit/sample rate converter, stereo sample to mono convert and vice versa, pitch shift
5) Undo button in the sample editing menus, with at least one level of undo
6) Load or delete multiple samples in one pass
7) Compatibility with Roland current and/or legacy formats (Fantom S/X, MV), Akai (S series, MPC files), etc
8) Edit and playback samples directly from USB flash devices
9) Non-destructive chopping - let chopped samples start/end points overlap
10) Grid edit for creating drum tracks
11) Independent Chord Function settings for each part. Currently, you have to enter F4 to enter Arp Part Number every time you want to use the Chord Function for a different part.
12) An easier way to assign multiple samples to a multisampled patch. Currently, it takes several button clicks just to assign one sample to a key. Doing this 61 times is tedious. I need to be able to assign multiple samples to a multisampled patch in one pass. Even a drag and drop sample function would be great.

Um...what you need is a dedicated sampler (or perhaps an MPC). I don't know of ANY keyboard workstation with this much power dedicated to sampling. If such a board existed the price would probably be astronomical (see Korg Oasys).

The sequencer also needs some work.

1) Audio tracks recorded in stereo still display as mono track.
2) Cannot change Track Type (MIDI, Audio). By defaullt, the first 8 tracks are MIDI, the next 24 are audio, and the remainder re MIDI. Although you can recorder the tracks, it would be much easier if you can freely assign the Track Type like any other normal sequencer.
3) Audio track editing....No pitch shift in the audio track edit menu. How in the heck to I get my Kanye West on without this function?
4) Input Effects EQ needs improvement. A true 3 band parametric EQ would be nice. The two banc EQ provided has onlt two settings for the Low Frequency and 3 settings for the High Frequency.
5) An UNDO function is needed for the sequencer. I can't understand why this was left out.
6) Track Output Assign. It doesn't work correctly when the sequencer is playing.
7) Horizontal Bar below the track window doesn't work with the mouse.
8) And just like what I wrote about the sampler...the editing features of the Fantom G's audio tracks could use a significant upgrade. The improvements don't need to be anything out of the ordinary. But Roland could at least make sure the Fantom G has the basic editing functions like any of the leading workstations on the market..past and present.

I have to question some of these. First and foremost, the Fantom X (and pretty much any modern workstation in existience) has an undo function. I can't imagine that Roland would take a step BACKWARDS and not put one on their new "flagship". Are you sure you could not find it? On the X, you have to press the shift (or one of the F keys...i forget since I use it with my mind set on auto-pilot) button to get to the undo function. I would guess that the G works in a similar manner.

Also the thing about not being able to switch track types. This makes absolutely no sense to me as the Fantom (as well as any other Roland board) does not possess this shortcoming.

As for track editing, again, you need a DAW or full blown sampler. Personally I was not very impressed with the Fantom G, but don't you think you're asking a bit much of a keyboard (as in: seeing as how it's a keyboard workstation, naturally there would be an emphasis on keyboard features instead of sampling features)?

Or are you one of those guys who believes that a workstation should be able to replace a complete studio...

[Jahrome]

Originally Posted by Trell Blaze

Um...what you need is a dedicated sampler (or perhaps an MPC). I don't know of ANY keyboard workstation with this much power dedicated to sampling. If such a board existed the price would probably be astronomical (see Korg Oasys).




I have to question some of these. First and foremost, the Fantom X (and pretty much any modern workstation in existience) has an undo function. I can't imagine that Roland would take a step BACKWARDS and not put one on their new "flagship". Are you sure you could not find it? On the X, you have to press the shift (or one of the F keys...i forget since I use it with my mind set on auto-pilot) button to get to the undo function. I would guess that the G works in a similar manner.

Also the thing about not being able to switch track types. This makes absolutely no sense to me as the Fantom (as well as any other Roland board) does not possess this shortcoming.

As for track editing, again, you need a DAW or full blown sampler. Personally I was not very impressed with the Fantom G, but don't you think you're asking a bit much of a keyboard (as in: seeing as how it's a keyboard workstation, naturally there would be an emphasis on keyboard features instead of sampling features)?

Or are you one of those guys who believes that a workstation should be able to replace a complete studio...

You don't know any keyboard workstation with this much dedicated power? Korg Oasys? You have never heard of the Korg M3 and Triton series, Yamaha Motif series, Ensoniq ASR, and even Roland's Fantom X workstations? Many of the functions I wrote about above can be found in these workstations. Specifically, the Motif XS: slices samples and assign it to keys and is not limited to 16 slices, has adjustable sample rates, pitch shift, converts stereo samples to mono, etc. The Korg M3 has just as many functions I wrote about above: Import Akai S1000/3000 samples, sample to USB storage, sample rate convert, play samples from keys in sample mode, convert mono samples to stereo, sample editing such as silence...copy...paste...fade in/out, pitch shift, and sliced sample automatially converted to a multisampled program.....

Roland has marketed the Fantom G with claims it rival dedicated samplers. They have added analog and digital inputs as well as a USB audio I/O so you can stream samples to and from the unit to a computer as well as use it as a VST instrument. There are 3 dedicated buttons for sampling/samples. In addition to that, they attempted to revamp the sequencer which now includes 24 tracks of audio with a mouse for DAW-like editing. But it comes up a little short with half-implemented features. So no...I don't think I am asking too much for the Fantom G to have the same features found in workstations in the same price range..past and present. Is there a particular function I wrote about that you think is too much for this workstation?

[Trell Blaze]

Originally Posted by Jahrome

You don't know any keyboard workstation with this much dedicated power? Korg Oasys? You have never heard of the Korg M3 and Triton series, Yamaha Motif series, Ensoniq ASR, and even Roland's Fantom X workstations? Many of the functions I wrote about above can be found in these workstations. Specifically, the Motif XS: slices samples and assign it to keys and is not limited to 16 slices, has adjustable sample rates, pitch shift, converts stereo samples to mono, etc. The Korg M3 has just as many functions I wrote about above: Import Akai S1000/3000 samples, sample to USB storage, sample rate convert, play samples from keys in sample mode, convert mono samples to stereo, sample editing such as silence...copy...paste...fade in/out, pitch shift, and sliced sample automatially converted to a multisampled program.....

Roland has marketed the Fantom G with claims it rival dedicated samplers. They have added analog and digital inputs as well as a USB audio I/O so you can stream samples to and from the unit to a computer as well as use it as a VST instrument. There are 3 dedicated buttons for sampling/samples. In addition to that, they attempted to revamp the sequencer which now includes 24 tracks of audio with a mouse for DAW-like editing. But it comes up a little short with half-implemented features. So no...I don't think I am asking too much for the Fantom G to have the same features found in workstations in the same price range..past and present. Is there a particular function I wrote about that you think is too much for this workstation?

From what I've understood through my reasearch of the board, many of the features that you say are not there do indeed actually exist on the machine.

And as I already mentioned, the Korg Oasys has this kind of power but is an a whole different price range. Not many people are thrilled to pay 6 - 8 k for a keyboard workstation.

I've owned a fantom X for a few years and I can't imgaine Roland going BACKWARDS in functionality.

I have yet to play with the G's sequencer (the board didn't interest me long enough to get that far) but something within me tells me that they wouldn't take away features that exist on the X series.

On my X, I am able to change track type, load/delete multiple samples in one pass, undo, as well as assign the track output. You're telling me that Roland has taken away these functions in thier new system?

Do the M3 and Motif allow you to drag & drop samples?

[Jahrome]

Originally Posted by Trell Blaze

From what I've understood through my reasearch of the board, many of the features that you say are not there do indeed actually exist on the machine.

And as I already mentioned, the Korg Oasys has this kind of power but is an a whole different price range. Not many people are thrilled to pay 6 - 8 k for a keyboard workstation.

I've owned a fantom X for a few years and I can't imgaine Roland going BACKWARDS in functionality.

I have yet to play with the G's sequencer (the board didn't interest me long enough to get that far) but something within me tells me that they wouldn't take away features that exist on the X series.

On my X, I am able to change track type, load/delete multiple samples in one pass, undo, as well as assign the track output. You're telling me that Roland has taken away these functions in thier new system?

Do the M3 and Motif allow you to drag & drop samples?

What features that I wrote about already exist in the Fantom G?

I already wrote about two workstations (that don't cost $6K) that have functions the Fantom G doesn't. And yes, Roland has released a workstation that took away features that the previous model had.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by Jahrome

What features that I wrote about already exist in the Fantom G?

What's the difference? No two samplers have the exact same set of features. The G is week, yes, that's the point.

This thread has become a laundry list for how insufficient the "new" Fantom is, so you're certainly not going to get much of an argument about its weaknesses from the majority of us.

You said that you're looking for a sampling workstation - clearly the G is not what you're looking for. No need to justify that. Just buy something else.

[Jahrome]

Originally Posted by elambo

What's the difference? No two samplers have the exact same set of features. The G is week, yes, that's the point.

This thread has become a laundry list for how insufficient the "new" Fantom is, so you're certainly not going to get much of an argument about its weaknesses from the majority of us.

You said that you're looking for a sampling workstation - clearly the G is not what you're looking for. No need to justify that. Just buy something else.

I believe we can all agree no two samplers have the exact same features. But the common features I listed are pretty much common with all sampling workstations minus the Fantom G. I don't mind that this thread has become a laundry list for how insufficient that Fantom G is. The point of my further discussion is to generate more talk in hopes that Roland hears this information and addresses it in future operating systems. As you implied earlier, Roland has and will continue to listen to consumers. My MPC wouldn't be where it is today without continuous feedback to Akai/Numark.

[elambo]

I can assure you with 100% confidence that Roland won't include or exclude any particular features in the future based on the content of this thread. If that's your goal, save your breath instead.

[Jahrome]

Originally Posted by elambo

I can assure you with 100% confidence that Roland won't include or exclude any particular features in the future based on the content of this thread. If that's your goal, save your breath instead.

100% confidence? It doesn't really matter if they read this thread, the threads in numerous music production forums, or their own emails....but the word is out on the Fantom G and they are listening. In fact, the noise on the internet about the lack of multisampling was a direct result of the feature being added to the last OS update.
Just like previous Roland products before it..user requests will continue to make their way to future operating systems. I am 100% sure of this.........

[mutiger]

Originally Posted by Jahrome

Just like previous Roland products before it..user requests will continue to make their way to future operating systems. I am 100% sure of this.........

I agree. Keep the complaints coming. Version 1.1 did add some stuff and fix a few things. I doubt Roland has their head completely in the sand.

I finally got around to messing with the sequencer and can't say I'm overwhelmed by it. I can't figure out how to record all tracks at once including audio (maybe not possible?). I could do it in sampling mode but then I lose the midi editing capability. Here's a sample [html]http://robertsjl2.home.mchsi.com/Fantom_G7.mp3[html] I recorded - the piano is my actual Yamaha DC6 grand piano mic'd into preamps and then fed into the Fantom G and the rest of the sounds are from the Fantom (piano is midi'd to the Fantom).

The Fantom G is a work in progress, and hopefully Roland keeps progressing with it. I'm wondering if they have any other ARX cards planned for it.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by Jahrome

100% confidence? It doesn't really matter if they read this thread, the threads in numerous music production forums, or their own emails....but the word is out on the Fantom G and they are listening. In fact, the noise on the internet about the lack of multisampling was a direct result of the feature being added to the last OS update.
Just like previous Roland products before it..user requests will continue to make their way to future operating systems. I am 100% sure of this.........

I remember similar things being said here and elsewhere on the net about the Fantom series before the G. Based on all that's missing, I guess they weren't really listening.

[Trell Blaze]

This could go on forever. The only way anything will REALLY happen is if everybody starts bying Korg Oasys's. The only way for THAT to happen is for Korg to drop the price (which they actually did a few months ago - when sales picked up they jacked the price back up)...

[elambo]

Yes, this would go on forever. Nothing's really being said anymore.

If the Oasys would drop a couple grand I WOULD buy one. Didn't realize the price dropped, but are you saying that it's back up to normal again?

[Trell Blaze]

Originally Posted by elambo

Yes, this would go on forever. Nothing's really being said anymore.

If the Oasys would drop a couple grand I WOULD buy one. Didn't realize the price dropped, but are you saying that it's back up to normal again?

That's exactly what I'm saying. For a while you could get one at GC for about half the original price - at least where I'm at you could.

Now they're back at around 7900.

[djburnone]

was wondering has any one done any vocal recording into the fantom g and if so how does it sound.

[Jahrome]

Originally Posted by elambo

I remember similar things being said here and elsewhere on the net about the Fantom series before the G. Based on all that's missing, I guess they weren't really listening.

I guess that depends on who you are talking to. For a person who likes to sample...the Fantom G has a ways to go.

But Roland did make it easy to integrate with a computer. It has USB streaming audio and can now act as a VST plug-in instrument. The mouse and larger LCD screen is nice as well as the expanded effects. I think this board has some potential....

[djburnone]

Originally Posted by djburnone

was wondering has any one done any vocal recording into the fantom g and if so how does it sound.

lets say comparing to something?

[mutiger]

Originally Posted by djburnone

was wondering has any one done any vocal recording into the fantom g and if so how does it sound.

I would think your mics and pre-amps would play a bigger factor there. I'm not seeing anything wrong with the G's recording quality but I'm no recording expert.

I don't, however, like where Roland put the input volume control (a tiny knob next to the input ports on the back of the keyboard). I'm sure they'll fix that in the next OS revision

[mutiger]

Originally Posted by mutiger

I would think your mics and pre-amps would play a bigger factor there

Oops, I forgot the G has one mic input with pre-amp built in and that's probably what was being questioned. I haven't tried that.

[djburnone]

anything new from the fantom

[elambo]

Originally Posted by djburnone

anything new from the fantom

See the above 4 pages...