ProFire 2626

[StudioRat81]

It's finally here! Haven't had a chance to thoroughly test it out yet, but it is up and running with M-Powered 7.4 (after the cs3 update). Flexibility looks really promising...light years beyond the FW1814 I was using until now. One thing though...not entirely sure, but the outputs on this thing may be -10 dBu balanced. They haven't released detailed specs yet, but after hooking it up to my LSR4328s, I had to change the input level on the monitors because they were distorting all to hell. Of course, maybe I am reading the push switch on the monitors wrog, and it is actually set to +4 now. It isn't clearly marked, so I can't be sure.

One thing is for sure...this is one sexy looking beast. Puts the 1814 to shame in both looks and build quality. The whole thing feels very solid. No loosey goosey knobs or connections on this puppy so far as I can tell. My one qualm with the design is that each set of line and mic inputs (1-8) are wired to the same jack (one of those multi-jack deals), creating a potential hassle if you're using a rack system with a patch bay, as I am. Definitely not a wire it and forget kind of setup.

Initial thoughts on audio playback quality...it definitely seems much cleaner and more open sounding than the 1814. Not as "dusty" sounding to my ears, with more detail and sparkle.

Anyhow, I will try to poste a more in-depth review after I've had an opportunity to put it through its paces.

[StudioRat81]

So, I still haven't done anything extensive, but I did make a startling discovery while goofing around a bit earlier that has made the purchase price of this piece more than worth it to me. I did a quick comparison between the preamps on the 2626 and my Octane, and wow, what a difference. I tested with an ElectroVoice Raven dynamic mic that has always sounded a bit small and stuffy through my Octane, and it sounded no different through that pre today. But man oh man did that mic open up on the 2626. I really had to remind myself listening back that it was indeed a dynamic mic, not a condenser. The new pres on this unit are incredibly transparent and open sounding, without a hint of congestion to my ears. This new generation of preamps may be based on the Octane pres, but they are a whole new ballgame as far as I'm concerned. And the difference in available gain is pretty significant as well. I had the Octane pegged out to get a decent recording level, which introduced plenty of noise, and I ran out of headroom in no time. The 2626, however, was barely using 3/4 of its (purportedly) available 75dB of gain.

I also did a DI test, running bass guitar straight in through the instrument jack on the the Octane, and then on the 2626. Surprisingly, I really preferred the sound of the Octane in this role. The bass sounded kind of stodgy and muted through the 2626, whereas with the Octane, it sounded much fuller, with better presence in the upper mids and highs, and the sound coming through was much more realistic.

I have several overdub sessions scheduled throughout the next couple of weeks, so I intend to really put this piece to work as much as possible in as many roles as possible, and I will post the results asap. I would also love to hear from anyone else who has one of these and has an opportunity to fiddle around with it to see what it can do.


P.S. I was also able to record 26 tracks using all 26 inputs of the interface at once in M-Powered. Maybe the curse of 18 is finally gone?

[laughton]

Originally Posted by StudioRat81

P.S. I was also able to record 26 tracks using all 26 inputs of the interface at once in M-Powered. Maybe the curse of 18 is finally gone?

How many available outputs are you coming up with? This could be big news if you could get all 26 outs.

[pmdundee]

Studiorat,

Thanks for your observations. Are you on Mac or PC? What sort of latency are you able to run the system at? Has it shown any hint of instability so far?

Thanks!
Eric

[StudioRat81]

Originally Posted by laughton

How many available outputs are you coming up with? This could be big news if you could get all 26 outs.

Pro Tools is showing all 26 ins and outs as available, and I was able to route each of the 26 ins and outs on the interface through seperate mono tracks in PT, and recorded with no problems.

[StudioRat81]

Originally Posted by pmdundee

Studiorat,

Thanks for your observations. Are you on Mac or PC? What sort of latency are you able to run the system at? Has it shown any hint of instability so far?

Thanks!
Eric

I'm on PC. Latency is not at all noticeable when monitoring through the DSP mixer, but is still capped at 128 minimum when listening through PT on my system. As far as stability, so far, it has been solid as a rock.

[TechKnowledgy]

Originally Posted by StudioRat81

Pro Tools is showing all 26 ins and outs as available, and I was able to route each of the 26 ins and outs on the interface through seperate mono tracks in PT, and recorded with no problems.

The more than 18 i/o is a bug with 7.3.1 on Mac, it was fixed in one of the later CS updates. Check out this thread on the DUC.

[leigh]

Originally Posted by TechKnowledgy

The more than 18 i/o is a bug with 7.3.1 on Mac, it was fixed in one of the later CS updates. Check out this thread on the DUC.

Funny, then, that he's running 7.4 on a PC...

[StudioRat81]

Just out of curiosity, if this 26 I/O thing does turn out to be something that is quickly shot down by Digi in the next CS update, is there a reasonably priced alternative that might be worth the investment for tracking larger projects? Preferably something basic with the only requirements being a) that it records as many inputs as my hardware can handle and b) that it imbeds each recorded file with a time stamp for importing and aligning into PT later.

I really enjoy mixing in Pro Tools, and I have already invested a ton into RTAS plugs and upgrades and such, so I really don't want to scrap PT completely. It would just be nice to have a reliable, supported method for getting the most out of my hardware.

[leigh]

Originally Posted by StudioRat81

Just out of curiosity, if this 26 I/O thing does turn out to be something that is quickly shot down by Digi in the next CS update, is there a reasonably priced alternative that might be worth the investment for tracking larger projects?

Folks have been singing the praises of Reaper as of late.

It's quite affordable, and supposedly very stable for tracking. Haven't tried it myself yet.

cheers,
Leigh

[mothermix]

I'ld like to know, if the Fast Track Ultra 8R will get the same preamps like the 2626. I don't need all that digital I/O, so I'ld prefer to chain 2 8R.
But why did they design the 8R as an USB-Interface ?

[DrSyn]

Mine is on order from a smaller M-Audio dealer, they told me ~5 weeks, hopefully it arrives sooner.

I'll definitely post how it works in OSX (Logic 8.0.1, Cubase 4.13, PTMP 7.4, Aggregated with MLan.. should be an interesting test)

Please keep us posted as to how stable this is. Its one thing to say its "rock solid" after a day or two, but really you can't make that claim until you use it for a few weeks at least.

I am curious: Are you able to run it at 128ms latency on a large project? e.g. one with tons of effects, tracks, etc.

Greg

[Barry Lird]

Anyone tried this thing in Leopard yet? Just for fun?

[stingray1122]

I'ld like to know, if the Fast Track Ultra 8R will get the same preamps like the 2626.

Yes, the Ultra 8R uses the same Octane Technology Preamps that are in the 2626. There will be some sonic differences since the converters and power supply are different but the general performance and sound should carry over.

But why did they design the 8R as an USB-Interface

The Ultra 8R was done as a USB 2.0 interface for two reasons. We had the technology available from the Fast Track Ultra development so making an 8 mike pre version was pretty straight forward. Also, USB 2.0 is on EVERY new computer (desktop or laptop) and typically doesn't run into some of the same issues that we've seen with FireWire. It was just part of growing our USB family of products.

RayT
Hardware Product Manager
M-Audio

[otobianki74]

RayT, any comments on the expanded i/o available with this unit and 7.4?

thx.

oto

[StudioRat81]

Originally Posted by DrSyn

Its one thing to say its "rock solid" after a day or two, but really you can't make that claim until you use it for a few weeks at least.

Hence my preface of "so far".

I will continue to post updates the more I am able to work with it.

[stingray1122]

RayT, any comments on the expanded i/o available with this unit and 7.4?

Pro Tools M-Powered is designed so there are 18 inputs available simultaneously. In fact there are I/O routing options in the 2626 (the ability to change the I/O order) that are there specifically to work around this limit. If it does indeed work it's a bug and I'd enjoy it while you can ;)

Legal doesn't allow me to comment on any features that may or may not be added to future versions of products.

RayT

[mothermix]

Thanks Ray. Can you say, that the 2626-pres are better? Am I right, that tht 8R-pres have 60dBs and those of the 2626 75dBs? I'ld prefer more gain, because I want to use some ribbon-mics.

Regards, mothermix

[crossroad]

Originally Posted by otobianki74

RayT, any comments on the expanded i/o available with this unit and 7.4?

thx.

oto

I'm in the same boat.
I do have the DA16x and AD16x

A shame the 2626 doesn't have a wordclock.

[autodidactic]

Originally Posted by crossroad

I'm in the same boat.
I do have the DA16x and AD16x

A shame the 2626 doesn't have a wordclock.

Yes it does. On the back there's a VGA style connector that will give you SPDIF,MIDI I/O and Word Clock.

[crossroad]

Great, tnx for the attention.
Than the Profire is the unit where i was waiting for.

[jeronimo]

Same thing here, this unit is the one I was waiting for a while.
I just got an Audiofire 12, I'll try it for a while, if it doesn't surprise me, I'll probably buying a 2626 to try out.

[cleartrueblue]

Originally Posted by jeronimo

I can only hope they put out some new and decent drivers for the 2626.
But I'm on a mac, and people using the PFLB on macs are quite satisfied.
So, I can only hope...
I have to get a new interface to use with my macbook and this will happen in one month or two, and I'm really looking foward for the 828MkIII and the upgraded MH units.

I see the 2626 driver download is different from the other M-Audio firewire interfaces. I wonder if that has anything to do with the technology in the 2626 licensed from TC? That would make me cautious, given the debacle of the Konnekt series drivers (Google Anderton review threads on 24D).

[DrSyn]

How is the clocking? Is the stereo field well defined and tight? I know my old 1010LT had terrible stereo imaging and muddy bass, I expect this is far far better.

I cant wait to try it against my emu1820m.

Still running stable? any weird glitches, lockups or otherwise strange behavior?

[Chrome]

Originally Posted by StudioRat81

Pro Tools is showing all 26 ins and outs as available, and I was able to route each of the 26 ins and outs on the interface through seperate mono tracks in PT, and recorded with no problems.

What platform are you running to get this? I have Cs3 with 2626 and tried on both platforms and all I can get is 18 channels of I/O. You can assign 26 but 19-26 do not work. Did you actually hook up cables and try this? I have a hard time believing this. If so can you tell me how this was done? Thanks
-Chrome

[stingray1122]

Can you say, that the 2626-pres are better? Am I right, that tht 8R-pres have 60dBs and those of the 2626 75dBs? I'ld prefer more gain, because I want to use some ribbon-mics.

The 2626 actually has a gain range of just over 53dB without the 20dB pad. Along with the pad this comes out to about 75dB of total gain range. The design of the circuit will provide a range from about 6dB to 60dB without the pad. This should be able to handle an old ribbon mike without a problem.

The Ultra 8R specs are pretty much the same for the mike input. Mine is reading a gain range of about 53.4dB. The SNR between the two units is different however. The 2626 will give you about -109dB A-Weighted while the Ultra 8R comes in at -101dB A-Weighted (these are post A/D BTW, I like to measure our specs in the way the units are used).

I see the 2626 driver download is different from the other M-Audio firewire interfaces. I wonder if that has anything to do with the technology in the 2626 licensed from TC? That would make me cautious, given the debacle of the Konnekt series drivers (Google Anderton review threads on 24D).

Yes the 2626 is based on the Dice DSP rather than the BridgeCo DSP. We've worked very closely with the Dice team to ensure a stable product. The 2626 has undergone extensive testing on various platforms. Of course there will still be some minor kinks to work out as they hit the streets (we can't test for EVERY setup) but things seem to be running pretty smooth so far. The best bet if your concerned would be to wait and see what others have to report on the matter. They are shipping now so it shouldn't be long before the comments start rolling in.

How is the clocking? Is the stereo field well defined and tight?

The clocking is fantastic! I was really impressed by the stability and precision of the Jet PLL clock. I haven't done a mix or critical listening to the stereo image so I can't really comment on that but reports coming in have been positive. I'll try to take one to my home studio this weekend to work with. I am biased but I'll try to give an honest opinion ;)

RayT

[cold c]

M-Audio have finally added specifications for the ProFire 2626:

Line Inputs (Balanced)

Frequency Response +/- 0.1dB, 20Hz to 22kHz (48kHz)
+/- 0.4dB, 20Hz to 80kHz (192kHz)

Dynamic Range 110dB, A-weighted

Signal-to-Noise Ratio -110dB, A-weighted

THD+N 0.0008% (-102dB), 1kHz, -1dBFS

Crosstalk -120dB @ 1 kHz

Maximum Input level +19.6dBu, typical



Line Outputs (Balanced)

Frequency Response +/- 0.1dB, 20Hz to 22kHz
+/- 0.6dB, 20Hz to 80kHz (192kHz)

Dynamic Range 110dB, A-weighted

Signal-to-Noise Ratio -110dB, A-weighted

THD+N 0.0013% (-98dB), 1kHz, -1dBFS

Crosstalk < -110dB @ 1kHz



Mic Inputs (Balanced) at Min Gain, No Pad

Frequency Response +/- 0.1dB, 20Hz to 22kHz

Dynamic Range 109dB, A-weighted

Signal-to-Noise Ratio -109dB, A-weighted

THD+N (min gain, no pad) 0.0011% (-99dB), 1kHz, -1dBFS

Crosstalk < -120dB @ 1kHz

Maximum Input level +6.5dBu, no pad

Input Impedance 3.7k ohms, balanced, no pad

Adjustable Gain >53dB without pad

Pad -20dB

ProFire 2626 specs at M-AUDIO

[pmdundee]

"Adjustable Gain" on the mic pres of only 53dB? So much for the advertising hype of 75dB gain. Even if they count the 20dB pad in the gain range, that's only 73dB; great job on the math M-Audio. Sheesh. That pisses me off.

If I'm misunderstanding this, somebody let me know. Anyone who's used the pres; do they have enough gain for quiet sources, ribbon mics, etc? How's the noise floor?

[Solomon Grundy]

Hey All,
I'm new to the world of Pro Tools and I just got this ProFire 2626 up and running using PT M-powered 7.4 with an Intel iMac doing all the brainwork. I've been recording some tracks lately, and I'm confused about the various routing options betwixt the ProFire and ProTools. Mostly the Software returns and such. I've been careful about not "dual monitoring" the audio outs, and muting the ProFire when monitoring in ProTools. Does anyone know of any simple step-by-step setups for routing effectively. I'm just trying to track drums guitars and bass for now, and I haven't run into any noticeable latency issues yet. I'm trying to use outs 5-6 for the studio monitors to keep the headphone outs independent of the master vol knob. All of the tutorials I've seen don't really do a good job with explaining routing and setup. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[stingray1122]

"Adjustable Gain" on the mic pres of only 53dB? So much for the advertising hype of 75dB gain. Even if they count the 20dB pad in the gain range, that's only 73dB; great job on the math M-Audio. Sheesh.

I'll take full blame for this. The only place this number was mentioned was in my post here...
Octane Preamps

This was pulled from the measurements of pre-production units and were not officially released. The production units measured 2dB less on average. And yes I was counting the 20dB pad. I was simply trying to provide some preliminary info here rather than making people wait 1 1/2 months for an official announcement. I can see that it only causes problems and will refrain from doing this in the future in the hopes of saving everyone from disappointment.

Additionally I would like to point out that the 53dB of gain range is very close to the RME OctaMics 54dB of gain range. Without the pad there is a maximum input level of +6.5dB. Along with the 53dB gain range it will result in +59.5dB of maximum gain. This is only 0.5 dB lower that most API, Focusrite, Mackie Onyx and Great River preamps. It's also 5dB higher than the Presonus FireStudio XMAX preamps.

If you need more than 60dB of gain you need to look at something like the LA-610 (+70dB) or the True Systems P-Solo (+64dB). True Systems has even just released a P-Solo Ribbon designed specifically for ribbon microphones although I don't know the specs for that model.

I've been recording some tracks lately, and I'm confused about the various routing options betwixt the ProFire and ProTools. Mostly the Software returns and such.

Solomon Grundy, yes the routing options can be daunting. If you would like to PM me I'll try to walk you through some of the routing options to take full advantage of Pro Tools and your individual setup.

RayT