Atmosphere and Trilogy for Intel Macs is here

[SKyflash34]

Spectrasonics - Spectrasonics Newsroom » Archive » Intel Mac support solutions for Atmosphere & Trilogy

It's a combination mini host application with a wrapper that allows you to run
both VI's on Intel Mac's. Not sure if this is a temporary solution until a new
version is ready. Eric Persing has stated that the release of Leopard has been
holding them up.

I will be downloading and installing Atmosphere in the next hour, I will report back.

[audiomichael]

WOW, this seems like a really crappy solution. After 1+ years of Intel Macs being out, I was expecting a native Atmosphere & Trilogy.

[Broken]

EDIT: Didn't know it was a short term fix.

[alvarez]

I hardly know what to say. I am certainly disappointed. After all this time I was really looking forward to a native Intel Mac version and even possibly some improvements a la stylus RMX.

It all sounds a very convoluted way of getting Trilogy and Atmosphere to work.

http://www.spectrasonics.net/news/20...phere-trilogy/

FROM THE WEBSITE IT WORKS WIH THE FOLLOWING:
(• An Intel Wrapper communication plug-in for Atmosphere or Trilogy (AU/VST/RTAS)

• A specially designed Host application for the original Atmosphere or Trilogy instruments – which runs in the Intel Mac’s special “Rosetta emulation” mode.)


There's even a freakin' diagram of how it works together to explain it?

I really liked Trilogy when I had it on the PC but I switched to Intel MAC as they were launched (the first gen MacBook Pro) I thought it might take a while for some of the plugins that I used to be converted / upgraded, but I expected most of them to be native Intel Mac AU versions by now.

At the end of the day, both plugins were just a type of sample playback engine, so they couldn't be that difficult to re-code could they?


A.

[SKyflash34]

I've installed and played around with it in Logic 8 on my Macbook.

Here's the rundown...

you install the original PPC Mac AU/VST/RTAS versions from your installer disc(s)
You download the wrapper and in the folder there is an updater for the plugins
(these are probably the same as on my install DVD,but I went ahead and ran
them anyway) You then install the wrapper.

When you open it in Logic, it actually opens the window for the wrapper and
Atmosphere runs on the side as it's own app,and can be found on the Dock.
There is an "Edit" button on the wrapper in the plugin window. You click on
that and it pulls the instrument up and you can use it normally just as it
always has. The wrapper acts as a communicator between the host and the
standalone instrument running in Rosetta emulation via it's own mini AU 'host'
and is triggered via the OSX internal ISA buss.

The plugin operates pretty much flawlessly. The tradeoff is that you have to
keep your buffer settings set higher than you normally would. The document
supplied with the wrapper clearly shows performance ratings based on different
Intel Macs,and they are pretty dead on.

I left logic set at 128 buffer at 48khz and it was totally unusable,snap crackle
pops and shuttering. The minimum setting is 256 and it was really pushing
the CPU on the Hollywood Strings patch. This setting was better, but still
had issues. at 512 it was better and usable. 1024 is the best and most reliable
but latency can be an issue depending on the patch.

Over all, considering that this is a pad synth, most patches have a slow attack
anyway,so the latency isn't as noticable or as bad as you would think.
I haven't tried any of the lead,or 'attack' type patches yet though. You really
have to just weigh out the balance of buffer settings to get something usable.

I think it is usable and if you own this VI, and really need to use it for your
day job,or important tracks on an Intel Mac,then go ahead and D/L this wrapper.
I own a Macbook,so it's convienent to have it with me wherever I go to write
and record.

If you have a permanent 'home base' studio and already have Atmosphere
installed on a separate Windows PC as a VI host,then don't bother. You'll get
much better performance running it as if it was a hardware synth on the side.

Anyone really concerned about this update, don't be alarmed. This IS a Beta
and it is outlined in the FAQ's that Spectrasonics is currently working on the
next version,and it will be a true UB application. Eric himself has stated this
on the other forums. When the next generation version of Atmosphere will
be ready, no one knows. I imagine early 2008(Winter NAMM) and I'd be
surprised if we saw something new before Christmas.

-Brian

[audiomichael]

Here's a screen shot with 3 Atmosphere's open. Notice the 3 host Atmosphere's in my doc, and the Native (rewire-esque) wrapper. This is a pretty wanky solution, but at least I can use it on my Intel Mac now. So one thumbs up, one thumb down.

[dirtboy]

Really lame attempt to take care of something that should have been done correctly well over a year ago.

[Carlos Boll]

Originally Posted by audiomichael

This is a pretty wanky solution.

You can say that again.

[musikwerks]

All this time for a wrapper????

That is really lame.

[rosewoodstrat]

I just tried the Atmosphere Intel wrapper for the first time on a MacBook with Logic 8. Makes me want to go on eBay and buy a 2nd hand 1.4Ghz G4 Powerbook and run Logic 7 on it with native Atmosphere. Better CPU performance, for sure. What is this ridiculous processor overhead on my supposedly blazing Intel MacBook 2Ghz...?

How can this wrapper be considered a professional working solution? And after 1 1/2 years of waiting too. This is staggering.

Where is all this heading? Let's hope Spectrasonics get their act together very soon. Great original idea (Atmosphere) inspiring and creative to use, IF you can use it, that is...a buffer setting of...1024...?! I'll just play that chord, pop out and get a sandwich, and by the time I come back it might sound...if the processor doesn't hit the ceiling, that is...

[muziksculp]

Could this be a temporary (lame) solution for now, until the UB versions are officially released ? or is this the final solution to run Atmosphere, and Trilogy in Intel Macs ?

Regardless, I have to agree, this is one of the slowest transitions for a VI I have seen for a while, the big question is why ?

[spectrum]

Hi guys....EP from Spectrasonics here.

Seems like some of you have gotten the wrong impression of what the Intel Wrappers are about, so I thought I'd chime in. :-)

Originally Posted by muziksculp

Could this be a temporary (lame) solution for now, until the UB versions are officially released ? or is this the final solution to run Atmosphere, and Trilogy in Intel Macs ?

Did you read the FAQs on the download site?

The wrappers are indeed just an interim, transitional support solution we created to allow Atmosphere and Trilogy users to be able work with their existing UVI-based instruments on Intel Macs.

There's a lot of cool stuff in the works for the future of Atmosphere and Trilogy - and of course that future will be running on our own in-house technology as native Universal Binaries on Intel Macs.

Regardless, I have to agree, this is one of the slowest transitions for a VI I have seen for a while, the big question is why ?

It has been slow and we tried to be very clear upfront that the transition would take quite a bit of time.

The reason is this (from the FAQs):

"Our popular Atmosphere and Trilogy instruments use a special version of the UVI engine, which Spectrasonics originally licensed from USB - not our own in-house developed S.A.G.E. technology that Stylus RMX uses. The Intel Mac transition is a major one for all music software companies to make, but it's much easier to make this transition with in-house developed technology. This is one of the main reasons why we were able to make the transition to Universal Binary for Stylus RMX so quickly. Therefore, it has taken much more time for our Atmosphere and Trilogy customers to be able to make the transition to the Intel Mac world than it has for Stylus RMX users. We discovered that this custom Wrapper approach offered a viable solution for many of our customers to be able to use the existing UVI-based plug-ins on Intel Macs with good results. We are also pleased that we can make these Intel Mac support solutions available to our users free of charge."

[spectrum]

Originally Posted by musikwerks

All this time for a wrapper????

Of course not.

The wrappers are only a tiny part of the big picture.

[spectrum]

Originally Posted by rosewoodstrat

I just tried the Atmosphere Intel wrapper for the first time on a MacBook with Logic 8. Makes me want to go on eBay and buy a 2nd hand 1.4Ghz G4 Powerbook and run Logic 7 on it with native Atmosphere. Better CPU performance, for sure. What is this ridiculous processor overhead on my supposedly blazing Intel MacBook 2Ghz...?

Are your results you are getting different than what the performance chart for Logic shows? Please let us know if they are....keep in mind that this is a Public Beta, not an official product update.

The wrapper solution for Atmosphere depends a lot on what host, what Mac OS, what computer and what buffer setting you are using.

How can this wrapper be considered a professional working solution?

We do realize that it's not a perfect solution for every user on every system. That's why released it this way, as a free Public Beta version for users to try - with Performance Charts that show what kinds of results you can expect.

However, whether it works to an acceptable pro standard depends entirely on your system and which instrument you are using (the results vary dramatically and the majority of systems produce very good results).

For example:

This wrapper solution works great for all our Trilogy users, regardless of OS, host or computer model.

It also works great for all our Mac Pro users, regardless of what host - either with Atmosphere or Trilogy. Very good results even at lower buffers.

For Atmosphere on slower Intel Macs like the Macbook, the results are more mixed...some hosts/os combinations are much better than others. So please check out the Performance Charts to see what you can expect.

Where is all this heading?

We are transitioning our entire development to use our own in-house technology for all our instruments...which is a gigantic project. It is definitely the wisest approach for the future, because it allows for the best possibilities for innovation and for support.

Stylus RMX is a great example of where we are headed. Because it uses our own in-house Spectrasonics technology, it was the FIRST virtual instrument in the industry to be Universal Binary. We have also been able to respond to changes like the Logic 8 multiout change very quickly.

In contrast, the original Atmosphere and Trilogy instruments are using a six year old, licensed engine that was designed to run on OS9. Making the transition to Intel Mac has certainly been a lot trickier for those instruments.

So obviously, the future of where we are headed with Atmosphere and Trilogy is not with the wrappers or the older engine...it's just a transistional support solution. We are very commited to these instruments, so it's been important to us to provide as many solutions to our users as possible, so that they can keep working.

The future of Atmosphere and Trilogy will be based all on our own technology, which of course will include native Universal Binary support for Intel Macs.

We'll be able to talk more about where we are headed at NAMM...I think you'll be pleased in what we are working on. ;-)

I hope that's helpful info.

Cheers!

spectrum
(aka: Eric Persing from Spectrasonics)

[Dave Bear]

I just tried it with pro tools HD on a intel mac pro.

It worked but I was getting pops and clicks at 256, had
to go up to 512 which was better but still had occasional
glitches.

at least I could open atmosphere in pro tools finally

this will at least get me by for now

thanks spectrasonics!

bring on UB

[musikwerks]

Hey Eric. Thanks for chiming in.

I guess I'm a little frustrated because Atmosphere is a tool I love and I am unable to use it efficiently as with the non Intel version. I appreciate you must have a serious amount of tweaking involved to get these things operational and, to your credit, you said it would be working by this time and you delivered on that promise. Just because it's not working the way I want is no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water. So, apologies if my comment sounded disrespectful in any way. I own and use a lot of your products. I'm very grateful for Spectrasonics and the palette they enable me to paint with.

Kris.

[spectrum]

No worries Kris...there's a lot of good stuff in the works for the future. :-)

[audiomichael]

I'm glad the wrapper is a temporary solution.
That's definitely great to hear. If Eric Persing says they're working on something good, then I'm excited!

[Broken]

So I'm guessing some info regarding the new versions might be made available at namm?

[SKyflash34]

Thanks Eric for replying on this thread.

I truly appreciate the effort you and your team have put forth to get a solution out
to us and indeed you delivered when you said it would be. I was actually about to
try the previous method of running in Rosetta, or install on my noisey old desktop
PC here at home.

Just for the record, I tried it with Pro Tools LE 7.3.1cs5 on the original Mbox and
it was pretty bad. But then again, it's old hardware and one of the earlier cs fixes
changed the buffering,so there's more latency. I'm sure if I ran some kind of faster
interface with Pro tools, my results would be different.

So far it's working well enough in L8 that I started writing something new last night
with it. I had absolutely no pops,clicks etc and at the 512 buffer, I had a few but
all I did was freeze the track, and the rendered file was fine. The latency was pretty
manageable and I would suggest this could be a recommendation for Logic 8 users.
not sure how the latency compensation comes into play here, but one could just
figure out the latency and manually delay the track. Bounce to Audio and then
you're fine.

[spectrum]

There's no latency added with the wrapper, so your playback timing should be spot on.

[spectrum]

Originally Posted by SKyflash34

Thanks Eric for replying on this thread.

I truly appreciate the effort you and your team have put forth to get a solution out
to us and indeed you delivered when you said it would be.

You are most welcome!

Just for the record, I tried it with Pro Tools LE 7.3.1cs5 on the original Mbox and it was pretty bad. But then again, it's old hardware and one of the earlier cs fixes
changed the buffering,so there's more latency. I'm sure if I ran some kind of faster
interface with Pro tools, my results would be different.

Yeah...also the Macbook is the slowest of all the Intel Macs and Pro Tools has the most overhead, so it's the most sensitive system of all.

The iMacs, MBP and especially Mac Pros work much better with the wrapper solution. Mac Pros can often handle 128sample buffers or less with no problems.

So far it's working well enough in L8 that I started writing something new last night with it. I had absolutely no pops,clicks etc and at the 512 buffer, I had a few but all I did was freeze the track, and the rendered file was fine.

Cool! :-)

[spectrum]

Originally Posted by Broken

So I'm guessing some info at namm?

More info at NAMM for sure!

[Stiff]

I haven't tried it, but wow... That's one cheap solution.

[bobmaus]

I think this is totally lame! Too much money spent for something I've never been able to use for the last year and a half. I think they ought to refund everyone who bought into it and can't use it! This is like wait a few years while we develop a whole new intel-mac based platform that you should have done long ago, like other developers. It's a rip-off big time with an explanation that only promises. I want to make music now, not 2 years from now. They have good samples, but what good are they if you can't use them.

"Let's not confuse enthusiasm with progress"

[audiomichael]

Originally Posted by bobmaus

I think this is totally lame! Too much money spent for something I've never been able to use for the last year and a half. I think they ought to refund everyone who bought into it and can't use it! This is like wait a few years while we develop a whole new intel-mac based platform that you should have done long ago, like other developers. It's a rip-off big time with an explanation that only promises. I want to make music now, not 2 years from now. They have good samples, but what good are they if you can't use them.

"Let's not confuse enthusiasm with progress"

Shouldn't you have ranted BEFORE the wrapper came out? Because now you CAN use it now, you don't have to wait 2 years???

[bobmaus]

Originally Posted by audiomichael

Shouldn't you have ranted BEFORE the wrapper came out? Because now you CAN use it now, you don't have to wait 2 years???

Believe me, I did, and had direct contact with the folks at Spectrasonics! I think a wrapper is a bad interim solution, just another excuse for what should have been done already. I bought Trilogy awhile back and when I had to move to an Intel Mac, this plug "should have been close to Intel ready" at the very least. They dropped the ball on a solution!

And if you read all the posts here, I'm not alone in this thought! I rant when I need to and not according to any format known in this galaxy!

Peace,

Bob

[Dysanfel]

Its lame, but at least it works now.

[spectrum]

Have you used them yet? They work pretty well on most systems and very well on faster rigs....and especially Trilogy is quite usable for sequencing on any Intel Mac system.

I know it's a drag that the wait has been so long and that can be really frustrating. However, we've always been really clear about the issue that the transition for these instruments to our own in-house technology would be a very long one and that Intel Mac users would be affected by this. The complex project of transitioning the entire Spectrasonics product line (not only where we've been, but where we are going) from the UVI engine to in-house technology was a major, several years long project, which we were already in the process of doing when the Intel Mac transition unexpectedly came along. This surprise unfortunately turned our development mission into a bit of a bumpy, public issue, instead of the "smooth, behind-the-scenes" type of transistion we had been planning for. My goal is always to make these kinds of transistions smoothly and with as little negative impact to our users as possible.

The wrappers were an additional support solution that we could do during this transitional phase to ease the problem of our users not being able to use their Atmosphere and Trilogy instruments on their Intel Macs.

I'd would like to emphasize again that the wrappers are NOT the only solution that's in the works for Atmosphere and Trilogy on Intel Macs. This is most definitely NOT the long-term future for these instruments - just an additional support solution that we could make available right now.

After NAMM, we'll be able to talk more freely about the future. I think you'll all be quite interested. :-)

[noiseflaw]

Wrapper is still good news in the interim...

I am really looking forward to Spectrasonics development on Intel Macs, thanks for responding to the thread Eric - you have killer plugs.