Black Lion Audio 2 channel A/D coming very soon!

[liazord]

Is anyone using this? I for one would love to try it but since Atlas's return policy is exchange only. Makes it kinda tough to try the Black Lion AD without a money back guarantee. Might be one reason why there isn't much noise about the unit out there.

Lia

[zkaudio]

Trying to pick one up today, will post results

[soggy]

Originally Posted by liazord

Is anyone using this? I for one would love to try it but since Atlas's return policy is exchange only. Makes it kinda tough to try the Black Lion AD without a money back guarantee. Might be one reason why there isn't much noise about the unit out there.

Lia

Thanks Lia did not know that...

You could try it out and if you do not like it exchange it for a Mytek Digital Stereo96 Series - ADC for about $300 more?

[FFTT]

Have you tried running your converter yet using either a Digi or M-Audio interface
as the dongle?

How's the hook-up doing with drivers and such?

Wrote you a while back about the hassle with my PMIO
not being able to handle pro +4 signals.

[zkaudio]

Originally Posted by FFTT

Have you tried running your converter yet using either a Digi or M-Audio interface
as the dongle?

How's the hook-up doing with drivers and such?

Wrote you a while back about the hassle with my PMIO
not being able to handle pro +4 signals.

it doesn't get much more simple than spdif

[peeder]

Originally Posted by liazord

Is anyone using this? I for one would love to try it but since Atlas's return policy is exchange only. Makes it kinda tough to try the Black Lion AD without a money back guarantee. Might be one reason why there isn't much noise about the unit out there.

Oh man i didn't know that. This means there STILL isn't any way to try a $cientology-- I mean Black Lion product without risking all your money.

[The Beatsmith]

i'm still really curious about this unit... i just haven't heard many people say much about it, other than the same couple of posters...

anyone able to offer any new info on this?

[Battles]

Originally Posted by peeder

Oh man i didn't know that. This means there STILL isn't any way to try a $cientology-- I mean Black Lion product without risking all your money.

Honestly man, you have been helpful in other threads ... but if you don't have any constructive arguments against this unit, I don't see the relevance of your posts in this thread.

You offer no technical reasoning as to why this unit would not be a good purchase. You have no experience with Black Lion Audio and your main complaint is that the majority of the people who have done business with them are happy.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by Battles

Honestly man, you have been helpful in other threads ... but if you don't have any constructive arguments against this unit, I don't see the relevance of your posts in this thread.

You offer no technical reasoning as to why this unit would not be a good purchase. You have no experience with Black Lion Audio and your main complaint is that the majority of the people who have done business with them are happy.

It is clearly and undeniably substandard business practice in pro audio to not allow risk-free evaulation of a product. This indicates a complete lack of confidence in the product by the manufacturer. Note how no "normal" dealers (that offer money back guarantees) are picking this product up. There are numerous psychological effects a manufacturer can abuse in separating a fool from their money, and the burden of proof in this instance is on them.

[rkwyent]

Originally Posted by peeder

It is clearly and undeniably substandard business practice in pro audio to not allow risk-free evaulation of a product. This indicates a complete lack of confidence in the product by the manufacturer. Note how no "normal" dealers (that offer money back guarantees) are picking this product up. There are numerous psychological effects a manufacturer can abuse in separating a fool from their money, and the burden of proof in this instance is on them.

Well said and I agree with this. It is a converter not software.

Plus if the argument on how better converters are so much noticable holds true, then they have nothing to worry about.

In regards to calling them a cult.. A small companies best friend is word of mouth there is no better way of advertising to this day.

I want a sparrow but no return policy sucks. If i was ready to spend $1000 on an adc. I would have just bought a lavry or Mytek or something. So trading up for an additional 3 or 4 hundred bucks is out of the question. The price/quality is the biggest selling point here so until there is a clearer consensus on its quality I will hold on to my money.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by rkwyent

Well said and I agree with this. It is a converter not software.

Plus if the argument on how better converters are so much noticable holds true, then they have nothing to worry about.

In regards to calling them a cult.. A small companies best friend is word of mouth there is no better way of advertising to this day.

Which is why it is a cult. The difference between a cult and a club is that the cult locks its victims into it, often in psychological and financial ways. For instance, $cientology's first goal with a new mark is to locate their entire net worth and have it transferred to the business. Then the victim is so burdened with cognitive dissonance that they can't let themselves snap out of it. It would be too painful to admit they had lost their entire net worth to a cult, so they not only stay in, they join in attacking others.

A club on the other hand would refund your membership fee if you weren't happy.

[willsing]

Originally Posted by peeder

Which is why it is a cult. The difference between a cult and a club is that the cult locks its victims into it, often in psychological and financial ways. For instance, $cientology's first goal with a new mark is to locate their entire net worth and have it transferred to the business. Then the victim is so burdened with cognitive dissonance that they can't let themselves snap out of it. It would be too painful to admit they had lost their entire net worth to a cult, so they not only stay in, they join in attacking others.

A club on the other hand would refund your membership fee if you weren't happy.

Dude, try Acacia or hemp fiber. They really work wonders to blow out the pipes.

[jimj166]

Which is why it is a cult. The difference between a cult and a club is that the cult locks its victims into it, often in psychological and financial ways. For instance, $cientology's first goal with a new mark is to locate their entire net worth and have it transferred to the business. Then the victim is so burdened with cognitive dissonance that they can't let themselves snap out of it. It would be too painful to admit they had lost their entire net worth to a cult, so they not only stay in, they join in attacking others.

A club on the other hand would refund your membership fee if you weren't happy.

You know peeder, your comments on Black Lion Audio are getting more and more outlandish, ridiculous and tiresome as time goes on. I find it very interesting that you take almost any chance you can to bash Black Lion Audio. As for us only having two dealers at the moment, we actually picked those two dealers because employees here bought gear from one of the two places and were very happy with the service we received from them. That is why we currently have the two dealers we currently have.

For the record, we have been approached by quite a few dealers and distributors for the MicroClock and the Sparrow. We have not taken anyone else on at this point because we would not be able to keep up with the orders at this point in time. How a dealer chooses a return policy is their business. We don’t dictate to our dealers how to run their business.

[burilius]

Quote:
Originally Posted by peeder
Which is why it is a cult. The difference between a cult and a club is that the cult locks its victims into it, often in psychological and financial ways. For instance, $cientology's first goal with a new mark is to locate their entire net worth and have it transferred to the business. Then the victim is so burdened with cognitive dissonance that they can't let themselves snap out of it. It would be too painful to admit they had lost their entire net worth to a cult, so they not only stay in, they join in attacking others.

A club on the other hand would refund your membership fee if you weren't happy.

I didn't know Black Lion Audio required your net worth, a club membership fee, or that they had religious beliefs listed on their website, let alone doctrinal beliefs deviating from Orthodox Christianity, hence qualifying their status as a cult. I did hear a rumor their employees require a psychological health test though. I wonder if Captain Cranky Pants didn't get hired or something?

[zkaudio]

This thread is sooo OT! Let's get some more reviews on the actual clock! I am meeting up to get one today and will definitely post some A/B runs... not sure what is the absolute best way to do this so advice is welcome :D

[OldTimey]

Originally Posted by zkaudio

This thread is sooo OT! Let's get some more reviews on the actual clock! I am meeting up to get one today and will definitely post some A/B runs... not sure what is the absolute best way to do this so advice is welcome :D

All peeder is saying is that testing out BLA products would be easier with a money-back guarantee. Manufacturers routinely put their money where their mouth is. BLA doesn't do this, and as a consumer, it irks peeder. He gets on these threads 'cause if BLA did offer a money back guarantee, he'd be first in line to try out their products. Why BLA just doesn't do that for p, i don't know. might be the easiest way to get him to pipe down. He tends to be very vocal about products he likes.

[NathanEldred]

[The Beatsmith]

geez. that aside, can we talk about the converter, please?

anyone used it and have any comments to add?

i'm wondering if it would be worth it - i have a FF800 with some nice mics and preamps, was wondering if this would help the quality tracking vox etc...

my dac is a lavry black

thanks

[living sounds]

Jim,

did you get my emails? I mailed you twice within the last week but didn't get a reply.


Thanks!
Gregor

[liazord]

I certainly didn't mean to start any ruckus over the philosophy of a return policy and what it says about a company. I was simply surmising that without a money back guarantee user reviews are going to be slow in coming, which in fact they are.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember Black Lion originally offered a money back guarantee before they shifted to dealer sales. These particular dealers, or at least Atlas don't do this. They have their reasons and that's fine but I would have already ordered a Sparrow if I knew I could get my money back if it didn't work out for me.

Every piece of new gear I have bought has had this guarantee. Many I have kept and many I have not but I have never held on to a piece of gear to use it on a project and then return it as Nathan has experienced in his business.

I am a perfect fit for this piece of gear. Nice home studio. I am using an RME Multiface for my conversion after having gone through various steps to get there.
I have all the mics I need for now and decent rooms, instruments etc. I am interested in stepping up in conversion, Everytime I have done this I have been very happy. The Sparrow , if it does the job and bumps up my conversion for a reasonable fee, sounds great to me. I like the simplicity of it's function and Just wish i could try it without committing my hard earned money where i may not be able to use it wisely or even want to spend it at this point in my recording evolution.

I am part of Black Lion's target market and i can't even try this thing.

Too bad fer me ah guess.

lia

[liazord]

Hey,

i just spoke to Jason at Geraorphange and his return policy is the same as Atlas's. He also said that he only has one left at the moment and that folks are loving this thing. He said folks are comparing it to Apogee and Lavry and are thinking it's better. He also said that if he had a return policy that he din't think i would be returning it. That's what he said. He hasn't used it much himself though so he was reiterating what his customers have told him.

Anybody near Woodstock, NY or New York City have one of these and want to share...

Lia

[The dman]

Bummer I would have considered this unit but a no return policy for something like convertors is....lacking

[BorrelNote]

Originally Posted by The dman

Bummer I would have considered this unit but a no return policy for something like convertors is....lacking

I think that point has been made more then adequate now.... So, let's move on to real life samples and/or testimonials so we can make some judgement.

BLA...were are the samples your beta-testers promised back in 2007 ?

Anyone with samples please? Would be highly appreciated...

[peeder]

Originally Posted by BorrelNote

I think that point has been made more then adequate now.... So, let's move on to real life samples and/or testimonials so we can make some judgement.

BLA...were are the samples your beta-testers promised back in 2007 ?

Anyone with samples please? Would be highly appreciated...

How are you to trust such "samples"? Everyone experienced with buying gear always says you have to bring the unit into your room and shoot it out vs. comparables and do so with the least bias you can muster. Which means being able to return it risk-free.

There's a good reason they won't let you do this, I'm sure.

(BTW, from the crude photos of the unit it appears the unit has no ability to be externally synced at all...)

[rkwyent]

Originally Posted by BorrelNote

I think that point has been made more then adequate now.... So, let's move on to real life samples and/or testimonials so we can make some judgement.

NO! AS CONSUMERS WE HAVE EVERY RIGHT...

IF WE DO NOT RE-ITTERATE IT THEY WONT GET THE POINT.

For once I am with peeder on this one.

If it is bcuz BLA is a small company and doesnt have an effective way to handle return then say so.

Esle stock dealers with better return policies. PERIOD!!!!!!!!!

[The dman]

Originally Posted by BorrelNote

I think that point has been made more then adequate now.... So, let's move on to real life samples and/or testimonials so we can make some judgement.

BLA...were are the samples your beta-testers promised back in 2007 ?

Anyone with samples please? Would be highly appreciated...

Whatever dude if you want to buy convertors without the choice of returning them that's cool. But man convertors are so personal and vital I can't see it any other way. Unless this policy changes they're not even a consideration for me anymore and I was quite interested at one point.

[rkwyent]

Uuuhhmm

Where did the manufacturer and the dealer go???

Ever since we started talking return policy they stopped contributing to the thread.


Ahhhh well. I'll just keep bumping this topic for the next few days.

[BorrelNote]

Originally Posted by peeder

How are you to trust such "samples"? Everyone experienced with buying gear always says you have to bring the unit into your room and shoot it out vs. comparables and do so with the least bias you can muster. Which means being able to return it risk-free.

There's a good reason they won't let you do this, I'm sure.

(BTW, from the crude photos of the unit it appears the unit has no ability to be externally synced at all...)

Fine.. I would rather have the risk free return as well... But that is not the case now is it? And there are plenty of people on Gearslutz whose opinion I trust. If they say it is a great converter then I believe them. If I can hear samples of mytek vs BLA and r BLA sounds equal or better I might take the leap. It is all about diminishing uncertainty about the performance and value of the BLA. The other option is to fly to US and listen to it in store. Well, no option really. So I depend on fellow Gearslutz members experience..

[BorrelNote]

Originally Posted by The dman

Whatever dude if you want to buy convertors without the choice of returning them that's cool. But man convertors are so personal and vital I can't see it any other way. Unless this policy changes they're not even a consideration for me anymore and I was quite interested at one point.

I'd buy ANY Lavry or Mytek or Prism converters unseen/unheard, just based on good reviews here and elsewhere. Nothing personal about that. I simply want great conversion dude, forget about a sexual relationship with it.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by rkwyent

Uuuhhmm

Where did the manufacturer and the dealer go???

Ever since we started talking return policy they stopped contributing to the thread.


Ahhhh well. I'll just keep bumping this topic for the next few days.

I think they realize that if someone tests their standalone ADC well, and it sucks or is just ho-hum, the whole roof could come down on their bidnes.

Here's a chance for them to show what they can do with no compromises forced upon them by pre-existing constraints, and if they can't get this right, how would their mods have a chance?

I'm especially unimpressed with their constant claims of ignorance. For instance, they said they modelled the ADC against the Benchmark ADC, which they said was the only high-end ADC they had experience with. The Benchmark is not widely held to be all that great an ADC. They also say here they have only bought gear themselves from a couple of obscure dealers.

I'd expect the people making or "improving" gear to be absolute authorities on the state of the art. These guys are cloo minus, other than at running MLM-style schemes.