new "vintage" style sampler VST

atma · 6th January 2007, 01:44 PM

http://www.112db.com/index.php?pid=morgana&action=index

for all the electronic / hip hop heads!

i'm REALLY looking forward to this one.

Ruudman · 6th January 2007, 01:48 PM

I hope they'll have a mac version out soon

ruudman

Dave Peck · 7th January 2007, 01:31 AM

I've heard of early samplers being described a lot of ways, but 'warm and punchy sure isn't one of them. The low bit depths, low sample rates, static and lifeless single-cycle samples, and crappy D/A converters made them sound thin and cheap. You had to work pretty hard to get a big sound out of them, except for a couple of models that had analog filters.

This product may sound great, as long as it doesn't really sound like an early sampler. Just my opinion about early samplers, not about this product.

DP

Empty Planet · 7th January 2007, 02:50 AM

Hey, watch that kinda talk! My 8-bit Mirage puts out some WAY cool sounds!

But...er....yeah...warm isn't quite how I'd describe it.

atma · 7th January 2007, 02:59 AM

the prophet 3000 i had was exactly that; warm and punchy, even without using the analog filter on it. i think owners of akai mpc 60s, s950s, emu sp12/sp1200s, emax, emulators, etc., etc., would heartily disagree with your supposition.

Ruudman · 7th January 2007, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atma

the prophet 3000 i had was exactly that; warm and punchy, even without using the analog filter on it. i think owners of akai mpc 60s, s950s, emu sp12/sp1200s, emax, emulators, etc., etc., would heartily disagree with your supposition.

+1

No softsampler has beaten my trusty Emu

ruudman

Reptil · 7th January 2007, 05:44 PM

how does this emulation compare to bit reduction as plugin?

azwun25 · 8th January 2007, 12:59 AM

they're saying "each copy of Morgana sounds slightly different"

WTF?

defjamm · 8th January 2007, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azwun25

they're saying "each copy of Morgana sounds slightly different"

WTF?

this one caught also my attention.

Claude@112dB · 8th January 2007, 04:03 AM

Hey, Claude from 112dB here - somebody told me there was a little buzz about Morgana here, so I thought I'd jump in. :) I'll try to clarify a few things if I may.

Indeed, we feel that Morgana is very warm and punchy. I can't vouch for every vintage digital device, but at least for the Mirage (which you may have inferred our synth is *ahem* inspired by), it's A/D stage definitely had some deficiencies, but bass response wasn't one of them! That, combined with the preamp stage (which was originally in place for directly plugging in a mic into the Mirage - I found that it imparts a really nice distortion onto samples so we simulated it) and the VCFs makes for a sound that is definitely not thin. Of course, it's all subjective, and far be it from me to discourage a healthy dose of skepticism.

As far as the bit reduction goes, that's a very small part of what Morgana does. The difference is that Morgana performs the bitreduction happens on the sample itself, which is then shaped by the VCF and the envelopes, etc. whereas a bitreduction effect is usually applied on the output as a channel insert. We're also doing a lot more subtle things, things like low-resolution envelopes, emulating the crosstalk that occurs at the input stage, and a lot of other little touches. Also at the sample level, we use an add/drop interpolation scheme for the transposition, which adds a lot of artifacts similar to aliasing (but also very distinct from simple sample-rate reduction - which also occurs at the sample level), really coloring the sound in a way that we think is quite pleasing. Suffice to say, there is absolutely no way to get anything like the sound from Morgana just by using insert effects.

As far as each copy of Morgana sounding slightly different - it's just a little gimmick, really. Basically, in the real world due to component tolerances and differences in the rate of aging, different units of the same make and model can sound somewhat different - even the different voices within one sampler can sound different if there is analog processing going on. In a sense this feature is modeling component drift by randomizing certain parameters slightly upon installation. That way your copy of Morgana will sound just slightly different from your friend's (for example). It's just something we noticed when doing research and collecting data, and we realized we could model this behavior pretty easily, so we did.

Well, I hope that clears a few things up - please feel free to ask if you guys have any other questions, I'll be watching this thread. :)

Cheers,

Claude@112dB Software

Ruudman · 8th January 2007, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claude@112dB

In a sense this feature is modeling component drift by randomizing certain parameters slightly upon installation. That way your copy of Morgana will sound just slightly different from your friend's (for example). It's just something we noticed when doing research and collecting data, and we realized we could model this behavior pretty easily, so we did.

World's first collectible plugin

ruudman

JulianBrightnes · 8th January 2007, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claude@112dB

...It's just something we noticed when doing research and collecting data, and we realized we could model this behavior pretty easily, so we did...
Claude@112dB Software

Thanks Claude, that's just really cool!

Cheers, Julian

PS will there be a Mac version?

atma · 8th January 2007, 04:19 PM

need any beta testers?

kenn.michael · 8th January 2007, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atma

need any beta testers?

mac beta testers +1

azwun25 · 8th January 2007, 09:32 PM

I too, would be more than happy to beta test for the Win XP VST platform.

coolout · 8th January 2007, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Peck

I've heard of early samplers being described a lot of ways, but 'warm and punchy sure isn't one of them. The low bit depths, low sample rates, static and lifeless single-cycle samples, and crappy D/A converters made them sound thin and cheap. You had to work pretty hard to get a big sound out of them, except for a couple of models that had analog filters.

This product may sound great, as long as it doesn't really sound like an early sampler. Just my opinion about early samplers, not about this product.

DP

Ever heard of a sp1200 or MPC-60?

I think this vsti is a step in the right direction, although I don't anyone lusting after a mirage.

farjedi · 8th January 2007, 09:44 PM

I had the same idea over a year ago! hope it works, could b cool!

Claude@112dB · 8th January 2007, 10:29 PM

Thank you for all of the enthusiasm! Indeed, we realize we haven't been the only ones who have thought of this, but being that it is a slightly untested market it's very enouraging to hear such positive comments. We've been working on this for over a year and we're really excited to see how the market reacts. We realize it might seem strange to use the Mirage as a platform for a virtual "vintage" sampler but after testing a lot of 'em we decided that the Mirage was the most characterful vintage sampler of them all, and in a very good way. And for all those hoping for an emulation of other more coveted devices (12-bit drumsamplers, for example), Morgana is only the beginning. ;)

For all those wondering about the mac version - it is coming, probably in Q2 2007. And indeed, we will need beta testers. :) As far as beta testing in general, there will be a public beta test, a contest, and an introductory offer (which may only be open to those who participated in the public beta - haven't decided). I'll make sure Gearslutz stays informed on all such developments. :)

Cheers,

Claude@112dB Software

temetrepo · 8th January 2007, 11:03 PM

this shure does sound interesting

siegfried · 8th January 2007, 11:29 PM

I cannot wait for Morgana! Seems to be awesome plug! How much will it costs?

Claude@112dB · 18th January 2007, 10:45 PM

Hey guys, I just thought I'd give a quick update - we've got a page up with some audio demos, available here. Just a handful right now, but that list is growing!

Re: Pricing - we have not yet announced pricing yet, we probably will not do so until we get close to release. To get a general idea of what pricing might look like, look at other software instruments which are detailed emulations of their hardware counterparts.

kenn.michael · 19th January 2007, 08:09 AM

ooooooh..... I like!

jmiller · 21st January 2007, 12:03 AM

I did notice an eerie resemblance to the Mirage. COOL!

Solar · 21st January 2007, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claude@112dB

Hey guys, I just thought I'd give a quick update - we've got a page up with some audio demos, available here. Just a handful right now, but that list is growing!

Re: Pricing - we have not yet announced pricing yet, we probably will not do so until we get close to release. To get a general idea of what pricing might look like, look at other software instruments which are detailed emulations of their hardware counterparts.

Hey Claude!

How are ya my man! Wow, one thing ofr sure i'm loving the sound that is coming out of this Vintage Sampler.. count me in as a Beta Tester and also a buyer when this is release! Hope it will be soon!! I love the tightness of the sound crunchy & dirty!! wow~!!

Bring it on guyz!!

Waiting for more updates!!

initialsBB · 23rd January 2007, 08:40 PM

Haha, as in fata morgana? Nice!

Claude@112dB · 24th January 2007, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by initialsBB

Haha, as in fata morgana? Nice!

Yup, the mir...err...atmospheric phenomenon. ;)

radiospace · 25th January 2007, 01:34 AM

The audio demos sound great. Looking forward to the Mac version. Hopefully it won't be too pricey.

Reptil · 31st January 2007, 03:52 AM

AU version please!

dj! · 27th March 2008, 05:02 PM

Just a quick 'un to let you know that Morgana/OSX is now a fact! VST & AU for now, RTAS to follow soon.

-- dj!

morebutter · 27th March 2008, 07:30 PM

awesome!. i am downloading the demo now.

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6th January 2007, 01:44 PM	#1
atma Gear nut Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 113	new "vintage" style sampler VST http://www.112db.com/index.php?pid=morgana&action=index for all the electronic / hip hop heads! i'm REALLY looking forward to this one.

6th January 2007, 01:48 PM	#2
Ruudman Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 2,848	I hope they'll have a mac version out soon ruudman __________________ Working Class Hero Visit this website of Noma Children Hospital Sokoto

7th January 2007, 02:50 AM	#4
Empty Planet Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 860	Hey, watch that kinda talk! My 8-bit Mirage puts out some WAY cool sounds! But...er....yeah...warm isn't quite how I'd describe it. __________________ .......... .......... No gear, vintage or otherwise, is going to unsuck your music. You're going to have to change something a bit more challenging than the gear in order to make that happen. ..........

7th January 2007, 05:44 PM	#7
Reptil Gear Guru Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: on me barge Posts: 13,094	how does this emulation compare to bit reduction as plugin? __________________

7th January 2007, 01:31 AM	#3
Dave Peck Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: S.F bay area Posts: 1,492	I've heard of early samplers being described a lot of ways, but 'warm and punchy sure isn't one of them. The low bit depths, low sample rates, static and lifeless single-cycle samples, and crappy D/A converters made them sound thin and cheap. You had to work pretty hard to get a big sound out of them, except for a couple of models that had analog filters. This product may sound great, as long as it doesn't really sound like an early sampler. Just my opinion about early samplers, not about this product. DP

7th January 2007, 02:59 AM	#5
atma Gear nut Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 113	the prophet 3000 i had was exactly that; warm and punchy, even without using the analog filter on it. i think owners of akai mpc 60s, s950s, emu sp12/sp1200s, emax, emulators, etc., etc., would heartily disagree with your supposition.

8th January 2007, 12:59 AM	#8
azwun25 Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Roman Empire State Posts: 1,472	they're saying "each copy of Morgana sounds slightly different" WTF? __________________ "If the opposite of pro is a con then look beyond this The opposite of congress must be progress" ~Cage Grand Ol' Party Crash

8th January 2007, 04:03 AM	#10
Claude@112dB Gear interested Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 5	Hey, Claude from 112dB here - somebody told me there was a little buzz about Morgana here, so I thought I'd jump in. :) I'll try to clarify a few things if I may. Indeed, we feel that Morgana is very warm and punchy. I can't vouch for every vintage digital device, but at least for the Mirage (which you may have inferred our synth is ahem inspired by), it's A/D stage definitely had some deficiencies, but bass response wasn't one of them! That, combined with the preamp stage (which was originally in place for directly plugging in a mic into the Mirage - I found that it imparts a really nice distortion onto samples so we simulated it) and the VCFs makes for a sound that is definitely not thin. Of course, it's all subjective, and far be it from me to discourage a healthy dose of skepticism. As far as the bit reduction goes, that's a very small part of what Morgana does. The difference is that Morgana performs the bitreduction happens on the sample itself, which is then shaped by the VCF and the envelopes, etc. whereas a bitreduction effect is usually applied on the output as a channel insert. We're also doing a lot more subtle things, things like low-resolution envelopes, emulating the crosstalk that occurs at the input stage, and a lot of other little touches. Also at the sample level, we use an add/drop interpolation scheme for the transposition, which adds a lot of artifacts similar to aliasing (but also very distinct from simple sample-rate reduction - which also occurs at the sample level), really coloring the sound in a way that we think is quite pleasing. Suffice to say, there is absolutely no way to get anything like the sound from Morgana just by using insert effects. As far as each copy of Morgana sounding slightly different - it's just a little gimmick, really. Basically, in the real world due to component tolerances and differences in the rate of aging, different units of the same make and model can sound somewhat different - even the different voices within one sampler can sound different if there is analog processing going on. In a sense this feature is modeling component drift by randomizing certain parameters slightly upon installation. That way your copy of Morgana will sound just slightly different from your friend's (for example). It's just something we noticed when doing research and collecting data, and we realized we could model this behavior pretty easily, so we did. Well, I hope that clears a few things up - please feel free to ask if you guys have any other questions, I'll be watching this thread. :) Cheers, Claude@112dB Software

8th January 2007, 04:19 PM	#13
atma Gear nut Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 113	need any beta testers?

8th January 2007, 09:32 PM	#15
azwun25 Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Roman Empire State Posts: 1,472	I too, would be more than happy to beta test for the Win XP VST platform. __________________ "If the opposite of pro is a con then look beyond this The opposite of congress must be progress" ~Cage Grand Ol' Party Crash

8th January 2007, 09:44 PM	#17
farjedi Gear maniac Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 240	I had the same idea over a year ago! hope it works, could b cool!

8th January 2007, 10:29 PM	#18
Claude@112dB Gear interested Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 5	Thank you for all of the enthusiasm! Indeed, we realize we haven't been the only ones who have thought of this, but being that it is a slightly untested market it's very enouraging to hear such positive comments. We've been working on this for over a year and we're really excited to see how the market reacts. We realize it might seem strange to use the Mirage as a platform for a virtual "vintage" sampler but after testing a lot of 'em we decided that the Mirage was the most characterful vintage sampler of them all, and in a very good way. And for all those hoping for an emulation of other more coveted devices (12-bit drumsamplers, for example), Morgana is only the beginning. ;) For all those wondering about the mac version - it is coming, probably in Q2 2007. And indeed, we will need beta testers. :) As far as beta testing in general, there will be a public beta test, a contest, and an introductory offer (which may only be open to those who participated in the public beta - haven't decided). I'll make sure Gearslutz stays informed on all such developments. :) Cheers, Claude@112dB Software

8th January 2007, 11:03 PM	#19
temetrepo Gear maniac Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: NY/NJ Posts: 227	this shure does sound interesting

8th January 2007, 11:29 PM	#20
siegfried Gear maniac Join Date: May 2006 Location: European Union Posts: 174	I cannot wait for Morgana! Seems to be awesome plug! How much will it costs? __________________ Sorry for my broken english!

18th January 2007, 10:45 PM	#21
Claude@112dB Gear interested Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 5	Hey guys, I just thought I'd give a quick update - we've got a page up with some audio demos, available here. Just a handful right now, but that list is growing! Re: Pricing - we have not yet announced pricing yet, we probably will not do so until we get close to release. To get a general idea of what pricing might look like, look at other software instruments which are detailed emulations of their hardware counterparts.

19th January 2007, 08:09 AM	#22
kenn.michael Gear maniac Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 274	ooooooh..... I like!

21st January 2007, 12:03 AM	#23
jmiller Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 188	I did notice an eerie resemblance to the Mirage. COOL! __________________ "Just play and mix and be happy." -Flying Faders manual.

23rd January 2007, 08:40 PM	#25
initialsBB Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: LA Posts: 758	Haha, as in fata morgana? Nice!

25th January 2007, 01:34 AM	#27
radiospace Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 573	The audio demos sound great. Looking forward to the Mac version. Hopefully it won't be too pricey.

31st January 2007, 03:52 AM	#28
Reptil Gear Guru Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: on me barge Posts: 13,094	AU version please! __________________

27th March 2008, 05:02 PM	#29
dj! Gear Head Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: 112dB HQ Posts: 60	Just a quick 'un to let you know that Morgana/OSX is now a fact! VST & AU for now, RTAS to follow soon. -- dj!

27th March 2008, 07:30 PM	#30
morebutter Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Northeast Corridor Posts: 420	awesome!. i am downloading the demo now.

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