How much do you charge for mixes?

[Glamdring]

Hey everyone, relatively new to the industry and was wondering if people would like to volunteer how much they charge for mixes...assuming it's a one off fee per song rather than a daily rate...

Off we go!

[James Meeker]

About 500/song to mix.

[Glamdring]

Take it that's in dollars?

[James Meeker]

In dollars yeah.

[Glamdring]

Checked out where you work from James, nice place!

[six_wax]

Here's a rough breakdown of typical rates out here:

Top Flite Guys: $3-5k/track

Other Guys, Major Label Client: $1-3k/track

Indie Labels: $250-$1k/track

[xmostynx]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

Whether or not they were "properly recorded" (whatever the F that means)

i think thats key-

[drew]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

.........How the hell can ANYONE say that until they've heard the track???............

pure ego.

And it's the cool Steve Albini-esque thing to say.

[seaneldon]

Some will call it arrogant, some will not. I don't. Some people on a business-related forum would consider it a pretty swell business policy, and honesty to the client that when they leave they'll have a really great representation of what their band sounds like, and if they would like to sound like something else, they should call someone else who does that.

[sleeps]

Originally Posted by seaneldon

I think it's good to offer a guarantee to the client that what comes out of the room is already "product" and does not require additional dough to have it "touched up" somewhere else by someone who "can figure out my mistakes" better than I can. That's bullshit.

This is still coming off as very arrogant to me. I STILL do not think "mixing" is referring to "fixing mistakes in tracking." You are implying that throwing up the faders, your tracking sounds perfect and needs no additional mixing and that it's bullshit to take it to someone else to mix. Perhaps it sounds perfect to you, but that could still sound awful to someone else.

Yes, it is nice to know that the artist chose you because they heard something that you produced and wanted THAT; that is how we get a majority of our gigs! But get off your high horse thinking that it is bullshit for the artist to take it to someone else. Perhaps there is a slim chance that someone out there can mix your tracks better than you recorded them. If the artist thinks so, that is all that matters.

I apologize if I am ranting. I just worked with a platinum producer who had the same mentality. He was VERY offended when we chose to bring the mixes to someone else. His tracking was fantastic, no doubt about that. However, someone else mixed those tracks better than him. The paying client thought so as well too. That producer will no longer be getting any business from anybody that was involved with the project (including the label and all the bands on the label).

[severe]

Originally Posted by seaneldon

I come from the world where one engineer does the record from top to bottom...

Hey man, everyone has their own way of working. If this works for ya, great. I'd venture to guess most of us come from another world, but "HILARIOUSLY STUPID"?

And the belief that mixing is what's required for fixing the work of an "incompetent producer" seems crazy to me.

[ColourSurround]

An early incarnation of my band was recording with a fairly decent recording engineer back in Ottawa and after the tracking was done he said 'don't worry guys, you payed your dues, I'll mix this thing for you.' Figuring this was a great and more cost efficient alternative, we were all on board.

A while later we were playing the EP to some mates in the record industry and they said 'cool tunes, but maybe you should have another go at the mix.' A guy specializing in mixing (didn't even know people specialized in this at the time) offered to have a go and the results were astoundingly more polished and overall better sounding. So ya, sometimes it's cool if the engineer offers to mix as well, but in all truth, I'll have to agree with the initial sentiment here: Get another set of ears to have a listen and do what they do best. It'll be worth it to the song.

PiN

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by six_wax

Here's a rough breakdown of typical rates out here:

Top Flite Guys: $3-5k/track

Other Guys, Major Label Client: $1-3k/track

Indie Labels: $250-$1k/track

Wow expensive.
I just got quotes from 2 LA producers to mix my record.
They both have 20+ platinum records each

$1000 a song. Granted they are 80's producers and
may be a little out of popularity but still very very talented
with serious credits.

Do you have huge record sales? Or are these guys desperate?
just curious

[bdmctear]

Because you never know what you will be getting, ask for a rough mix, and from there estimate how many days it will take. Multiply that by your day rate. Share that with the client, too. I don't think it is ever wise to have a flat rate per song, unless that amount can safely be calculated by your day rate.

I think it's very funny to come out so passionately against mix engineers, seaneldon. Don't you guys sell to lots of those types?

[peeder]

Over the course of an album, a per-song rate will average out...you might take as many as 4 days to get the single perfect and only a couple hours each to run through filler tracks once you've already nailed the album's sonic identity.

Per-song/per-album rates allows the band to budget very effectively, per day/per hour not so well. If you want to be safe you can quote after pushing up faders.

[MarkRB]

Originally Posted by seaneldon

I come from the world where one engineer does the record from top to bottom. That engineer's job is to properly record the music to where it would be HILARIOUSLY STUPID to try and command $500+ per song to "fix" what could have been handled during the recording in seconds. For $500, you can get an entire day in a great studio recording the same song again, properly, and not need to spend extra money "fixing" what an incompetent "producer" thought was "fixable later for more money".

You have a fair point, and certainly 30 years ago the guy recording would be expected to mix the track, but it has become obvious that some people (regardless of their engineering 'skills') are better at mixing than others.

I know plenty of great recording engineers that can't mix for shit.

It can be argued that in engineering terms recording or tracking is pretty much a technical exercise, whereas mixing is an entirely creative process and some people are simply better at it than others.

[BevvyB]

You obviously don't have any mixing heroes. Or haven't worked out yet that most of the stuff you ever heard that sounded amazing were because of two factors - producer AND mixer, two entirely different people who were both incredible in their own field

And lets not forget, you can get musicians to do sessions for you at musicians union rates...

...but the ones you really want will just not come unless you pay them properly

So the value is entirely subjective

And a mix can go on for an hour or a week, depends what it is, how complicated it is, whether you call 'editing all this sh1t' mixing etc

[forthemusic.com]

Depending where you are with your skill, experience, gear and lets not forget location (which will greatly affect your competition and bottomline), the scale rate listed by six wax from Los Angeles is a very accurate assessment.

On the independent level which is where I will guess you're at, given that Chris Lord Alge isn't going to ask this question, you can probably figure between $100 for those singer/songwriter folks who ask you to balance out their guitar, vocals and shaker and $350 to $500 a song to edit and mix up to 20-30 tracks of a full band with numerous vocal tracks.

As a refernece, the last project I did I followed a standard West Coast Post Production contract (type in Local 700 if interested). I currently work as an editor for one of the 4 Majors, editing network shows, and based my pay accordingly. I set an initial $50 an hour, at 3hr's a song(1hr each...record, edit and mix) for 14 songs. Any hours over that, including additional editing on my own time, was charged at $35 an hour. This gave the artist the "base line" budget for his project, which then alloted him a scale to plan out just how much he wanted to spend. As well as protected me from falling victim to the potential never satisfied client. Short story longer, the $2250 project turned into a $12000 project.

All this to say, I ended up paying a mixer with 25 years experience (U2, Elton John) to mix it on his own time between projects for $350 a song. Mixing is an art form, and it was a breath of fresh air to the project to have him hear it for the first time and make the songs shine.

You need to be good at reading people, be able to sell yourself and most importantly have the client feel that you connect with their project. Also, don't sell yourself short. People want a deal, but they also want to know that they are buying quality. You may not get the job if your the most expensive, but you won't neccessarily get the job if your the cheapest.

Have confidence and start lower, build some satisfied clients and raise your rates from there. Just business 101. Good luck!


Lastly, to seaneldon, it you want to get a hit at the ball park, it might help to actually bring a bat.

[MarkRB]

Making everything sound 'nice' and MIXING are two different skills.

Some can do both, some can do one or the other or like me you suck at it all.

In answer to OP.
£200 - £800 per track, depending on how much money they have, if I like it or whether it will help my career.

[davedarling]

" This music shit is, in my eyes, way more about creativity than business which is why I get a little ramped up when "music business" is brought up in the first place. "

- Why are you posting on a "music Business" forum ?


"I do still stand behind the fact that I think the "it takes $500 for me to do this" thing is really dumb."

- Do you get paid for what ever it is you do, or would that be really dumb ?

"I guess I'll have to keep out of this particular subforum if everyone wants it to be peaceful and one sided."

- Peaceful and one sided ?? does your mom know you're on the computer ?

best - Dave Darling

[Glamdring]

Originally Posted by forthemusic.com

Depending where you are with your skill, experience, gear and lets not forget location (which will greatly affect your competition and bottomline), the scale rate listed by six wax from Los Angeles is a very accurate assessment.

On the independant level which is where I will guess your at, given that Chris Lord Alge isn't going to ask this question, you can probably figure between $100 for those singer/songwriter folks who ask you to balance out their guitar vocals and shaker and $350 to $500 a song to edit and mix up to 20-30 tracks of a full band with numerous vocal tracks.

As a refernece, the last project I did I referneced a standard West Coast Post Production contract (type in Local 700 if interested). I currently work as an Editor for one of the 4 Majors editing network shows, and based my pay accordingly. I set an initial $50 an hour, at 3hr's a song, for 14 songs. Any hours over that, including additional editing on my own time, was charged at $35 an hour. This gave the artist the "base line" budget for his project, which then alloted him a scale to plan out just how much he wanted to spend. As well as protected me from falling victim to the potential never satisfied client. Short story longer, the $2250 project turned into a $12000 project.

All this to say, I ended up paying a mixer with 25 years experience (U2, Elton John) to mix it on his own time between projects for $350 a song.
All this to say, mixing is an art form, and it was a breath of fresh air to the project to have him hear it for the first time and make the songs shine.

You need to be good at reading people, be able to sell yourself and most importantly have the client feel that you connect with their project. Also, don't sell yourself short. People want a deal, but they also want to know that they are buying quality. You may not get the job if your the most expensive, but you won't neccessarily get the job if your the cheapest.

Have confidence and start lower, build some satisfied clients and raise your rates from there. Just business 101. Good luck!

Excellent post.

[rcm]

I have done all sorts of deals, but things are way more complicated than they used to be and I do not really do per song rates any more. I usually charge a day or a week rate.

I do not like to punish the guys that did a great job of producing/engineer. If a band has tracked a record where the performances are great, they are recorded and edit well and they actually made good decisions about which tracks they wanted to use (low track count) I might be able to bang out 3 or 4 mixes a day without compromise . There are other records that come in that are badly recorded, badly edited and an insanely high track counts because they just threw a million sounds into the daw for me to sort out and decide what to use. With some of those records, at the end of the first day we are still trying to sort through the tracks and fix bad edits, etc.

[Musiclab]

I still charge by the hour, it takes whatever it takes. If it's a simple mix with not alot of tracks I won't charge for a day. Of course I don't get too many of those. Usually it's 40+
tracks, and it does take a day. I just finished one that was 13 hours, the vocals werent tracked so nicely in terms of level and there were overlapping lead vocals . I had to ride them all over the place so it took awhile.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by seaneldon

Guy #1: "Hey dude, can you fix my car for $500?"
Guy #2: "Yeah!"

Any questions?

then yer a little out of touch for the last fifteen years as to how the industry works. Its price per song for many many of us. Andy Wallace is price per song. Alan Moulder is price per song.

I've been working price per song through my agent for years - generally between £500 and £1500 per mix...

Modern records RARELY are recording engineer does the mix - in fact its a little like mastering - you get fresh ears to put the time in. From Arctic Monkeys to QOTSA to Rolling Stones etc etc. Thats how it is and how it has been for a LONG time.

Demo and lowbudget world - fair enough. Point taken. Even on particular niche stuff . But you look at records like NIN or Yeah Yeah Yeahs or practically any RnB record - mixer is standalone and seldom involved in the recording chain. The thing is - pick your mixes - a producer chooses the tracking methodology and engineer/studio - he should (as I do) also pick the mix engineer.

In fact it is LESS common to find recording and mixing done by one person. Not particularly rare but isnt the standard way many do it - nor has it been for many years.

[CDS]

Originally Posted by six_wax

Here's a rough breakdown of typical rates out here:

Top Flite Guys: $3-5k/track

Other Guys, Major Label Client: $1-3k/track

Indie Labels: $250-$1k/track

This is a good list!

I have read a few post which say that 1 guy can engineer a record from top to bottom, which is true.

Take this into consideration:

One of my mentors (a top flight guy) was brought in to mix "Men In Black" by Will Smith. When he first listened to the tracking, the chorus was not really good and the record "production" didn't spell out "arraignment".

He called in a singer he knew, changed the drums a bit and arranged the record to what won the Grammy.

While telling me this story, I was taught that it is the mixing engineer's job to deliver the best record possible to the label. Whatever has to be done to fix the record from replacing drum sounds, arrangement of the song, even to cutting additional vocals if need be, whatever you do, finnish the record and provide alternative mixes to choose from (and keep all parties happy).

Top flight guys have the reputation to command big prices because they work on a level of a record director after initial production.

The 1k-3k guys will provide major label sound, but will likely not push any boundaries unless they are ballsy and will one day be a top flight guy.

The $250 - $1k engineer is likely also a recording engineer and will work up demand until he can get more $$$ based on a resume with some hits on it.

Just my take.

[CDS]

Originally Posted by seaneldon

I come from the world where one engineer does the record from top to bottom. That engineer's job is to properly record the music to where it would be HILARIOUSLY STUPID to try and command $500+ per song to "fix" what could have been handled during the recording in seconds. For $500, you can get an entire day in a great studio recording the same song again, properly, and not need to spend extra money "fixing" what an incompetent "producer" thought was "fixable later for more money".

And yes, I've taken on mix projects before...reluctantly. I certainly didn't do something as closed-minded as charging "per song". Have the artist book the room for a day, see how many songs you can get done in that day. Book more if you need more.

Recording and mix engineering seriously takes 2 separate set of skills. While 1 guy can handle both tasks, he would need some time away from the material and come back with a clear perspective. What I mean by "clear perspective" is that anyone that has tracked a song for a few hours will know that it stays saturated in your mind (like driving home still hearing the tune in your head). If you come back to the song a day after tracking to mix, though you can get a mix done, I don't believe it will be the best mix due to mental fatigue from repetitive exposure.

For record engineering: you have to really be good at capturing performances at the right time and the right way. This is an art to itself. Do you use a ribbon mic or a shure on the snare? Should you record a bass through amp, DI, or both? Are you getting the best level going to track, and should there be some soft knee? Is the artist ready to give the best performance now or do they need an hour to prep? Ok, the band is in a jam session before the scheduled work... you are recording this right? Most recording engineers these days are usually the producer of the record.

For mix engineering: its up to you to make the tons of tracking sound like a RECORD! One superstar mixer once said to me "I start my process by making sure i can hear the silence", meaning he gates and clean each track before mixing so to sustain a quality sound by trying his best to eliminate an audible noise floor. The recording engineer is not performing "strip silence" in PT as a rule of thumb to reduce noise floor, the mixer takes on this task. Vocal dynamics with processors and manual fader automation is an exceptional talent of ears and reflexes. Making 60 tracks play nice in a 2 channel mix takes alot of experience and specialty talent, that is if you want it to sound like a professional record.

I know of a few top flight guys that have received up to $20k a mix. Album deals $100k.

[jayfrigo]

Well, perhaps if anybody is still interested in talking about business or the question at hand, are all of you considering just the mixer's rate, or the rate for mixer and a studio. That's a big difference. Many guys charge $500/day and you get their personal studio along with it, and how elaborate that room is can differ greatly. Others get $500/day for themselves and you pay the studio rate for wherever you choose to work on top of that.

If you want a top flight room in a big city, $500/day won't even cover the room, so this is a variable worth considering. Of course we'll get the collection of replies saying studios are dying, all you need is a DAW, everybody knows an amazing SSL room that's only getting $300/day and all of that. However, speaking from a business point of view (which is the point in this forum), if you put a million bucks into building a studio and intend to run it as a business, including all the real estate costs (did you buy, rent, taxes, upkeep etc?), salaries, insurance, utilities, supplies etc, you have quite a monthly sum to cover, and to return a profit on a plan with a reasonable term, you can't charge $300/day.

If there are clients who wish to use such a room because they understand it can make a difference to them, then they should be willing to pay more than for the spare bedroom DAW studio. Sure, it's what the market will bear, but it is not unreasonable for an experienced engineer in an excellent room to ask a rate commensurate with that experience and environment. If the project is completed just fine in the DAW studio, and it is certainly not out of the question that it can in many cases (the engineer being the most important variable) then this is also a wonderful outcome. Different solutions for different needs, but different price as well.

[Sinister Blade]

I charge hourly with a cap on the total cost, I generally give the cap rate after hearing what style of music they do ( progressive metal vs punk, not the same job mixing for sure ). I tell them straight up that they are getting free hours so that I can go over everything as anally as possible. This way when they get it back I KNOW I did everything I could on it.

Not to add fuel to the separate mixing topic, but take a look at any Major or serious Indie record, there isn't just one guy doing it. Why, labels want name power associated with a record ( Even though there is merit to having different talented people hearing it from each stage ), usually from the Mastering guy on down. And if I owned a label, I would probably do it like that too. Some listeners do know which studios and people worked on which records and make impressions off of that alone on the QUALITY. So you either take the job or pass on it.

[Protools Guy]

I just finished mixing a project for a friend and his band. I quoted a very low rate per song since he's a guy I've known for over 20 years and I have a great respect for him. The end result is that the band is very happy, but I put in many free hours because I gave them a "per song" quote.

There was the classic "the tracks we gave you for song 'A' don't sound like they're in time. Can we fix the latency here and bring them back to you? All you'll have to do is import the new files."

Or this, "I'm hearing some flat vovals at measure 24. Can you fix that with Autotune?"

There are several other "fixes" that they wanted. You can fill them all in because you've probably been there if you're reading this.

It may sound like I'm moaning here, and I want to be sure to let everyone know that I'm not. I knew when I quoted low, that there would still be revisions because that's the way we musicians are. We want the final mixes to be the best they can be, and these guys are no exception.

I just want to illustrate what happens amongst friends when we work together, whether there is a per song "good buddy price" given or an hourly rate. There are still many revisions upon revisions, not because they want to "make sure they get their money's worth and stick it to the mix engineer", but only because they want their album to sound its very best.

If I had given them an hourly rate, and then told them that the first song took me 8 hours, they probably would've just gone elsewhere.

Most people don't liked being charged an hourly rate like a lawyer would, where the client isn't sitting in the offic