Do youse guys price by project or by studio hours?

[Tibbon]

By the Day/Hour. Day is defined as 10 hours, and I'm under no commitment to work more than that. If I do, I do. If I don't, you still got your 10 hours.

Why in the world (from your side) would you want to work by project?

Because you don't know how long it will take? Great, that means that you have shifted the cost-liability from them to you. Pretty piss-poor business idea. Musicians will ALWAYS try to get more our of you on a basis like this.

"Dude we paid you to do this song... it was a whole $200! The bassplayer got that from his mom! You're saying we need to stop after working every day for 6 months? You suck man! You're the one getting rich with this studio!"

[mu6gr8]

Originally Posted by Musiclab

Per project is complete insanity if you want to earn a living.

Hmm... I find the opposite to be true. What happens when you work hourly, and your client suddenly chooses to only work a couple hours? I hope you have a three or four hour minimum so that you're not completely shafted when you planned to work the entire day, but your client gets a call from an angry lover, so the session abruptly ends.

Hourly rates (with an x-hour minimum) can make sense if you don't work this gig full-time, or if the standard for the type of job you're doing is hourly. Maybe that's the case for editing. Sometimes it's the case for engineering, and I think it's always the case for assistant engineering.

But in my world, which is producing and mixing, per project is the only way to fly, whether the project requires a half day or an entire month to complete.

[Einar]

I go by hourly rate always... I´m thinking about going fixed price for mixing (per song), because sometimes I just want to experiment and have fun with it, take my time till I feel it´s right - and my conscience doesn´t allow me to charge clients for that.

...now, back to mixing.

[kats]

Hourly tracking.
Song rate mixing.

You want a day rate? Multiply it by the hourly rate and viola, you have the day rate!

Then you don't have to "watch the clock". Do people really think this way?

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by mu6gr8

Hmm... I find the opposite to be true. What happens when you work hourly, and your client suddenly chooses to only work a couple hours? I hope you have a three or four hour minimum so that you're not completely shafted when you planned to work the entire day, but your client gets a call from an angry lover, so the session abruptly ends.

Hourly rates (with an x-hour minimum) can make sense if you don't work this gig full-time, or if the standard for the type of job you're doing is hourly. Maybe that's the case for editing. Sometimes it's the case for engineering, and I think it's always the case for assistant engineering.

But in my world, which is producing and mixing, per project is the only way to fly, whether the project requires a half day or an entire month to complete.

Pro studios always do either hourly or day rates.
I have a few regulars who are doing long term projects/ albums , I have 3 ongoing album projects, that are booking here every week. What do you do if you agree on a project price and then go way over the amount of hours the project should take? Do you start feeling like maybe you've been screwed? or taken advantage of? Does that also mean you work on a project till it's done, and then move on to the next which you have to find? What do you do between projects?Hourly rates totally make sense, no one is in for just an hour or two and is you have a short session you book around it, or enjoy the rest of your day, or do some things around the studio. And this way if a project runs over you're still getting paid your rate. At least that's how its been for me for the last 22 years

[noizemakerz]

def hourly for tracking and editing.. per song for mixing and mastering.. per project if producing

[Glamdring]

I'd be interested to hear more from slutz out there that are producing as well as engineering/tracking. So far, it seems that the majority favour:

Hourly rate for tracking

Fixed song rate for mixing

Project based fee for producing

Would anyone out there be willing to post some figures?

Good thread.

[mu6gr8]

Originally Posted by Musiclab

Pro studios always do either hourly or day rates... What do you do if you agree on a project price and then go way over the amount of hours the project should take?

First off, I'm advocating a project rate as a producer/mixer fee for a human being, not necessarily as a rental charge for the use of a recording studio. As such, part of my job is to know how long a job should take, so the client/artist and I discuss the goals and the expectations before I take a deposit and book the gig. We're on the same page before we start working. If I were to cause the job to take longer than planned, it would be my responsibility to deal with it. If the client causes a delay, a pre-negotiated day rate applies to the extra time. Nobody wants to go there--my next gig is usually scheduled to begin right after the current one, and was probably booked months in advance. Plus the artist presumably has a release date that's been set in stone. It would be a drag to fall behind; both parties are motivated to stick to the game plan, which is documented in the deal memo or contract. Both parties have a shared responsibility to stay on track.

Re: pro studios, the ones where I record and mix offer only day rates, with additional hourly charges kicking in after 12 or 14 hours. Booking enough consecutive days will usually get you a discounted project rate.

[Glamdring]

Originally Posted by noizemakerz

def hourly for tracking and editing.. per song for mixing and mastering.. per project if producing

How do you work out your producer's rate per project?

[BLUElightCory]

Originally Posted by mu6gr8

Hmm... I find the opposite to be true. What happens when you work hourly, and your client suddenly chooses to only work a couple hours? I hope you have a three or four hour minimum so that you're not completely shafted when you planned to work the entire day, but your client gets a call from an angry lover, so the session abruptly ends.

Yes, but what happens when you're working with a flat rate and your client gets a call from an angry lover? Now you're out the entire day anyway (time that you factored into their flat rate as being productive) AND you're not getting paid for what little time you did put in.

[BLUElightCory]

I've almost always used a per-project flat rate, as I like to really take my time and do things right. I've never been one to do "demos;" I've always tried to give clients the maximum quality that I can offer for them at a rate that's affordable for most serious bands. I also do a lot of hard rock and metal, and tend to spend a lot of time editing drums and vocals to get the type of sound my clients are after, as well as being very lenient about things like mix revisions and other small details. I do this because I want to exceed the bands' expectations and because I can remember being unsatisfied with recordings that other engineers had made for bands I used to play in. There's nothing worse than selling someone your CD and not being proud of it.

Well, the more I do the math, the more I realize that I might as well be working at Subway.

I've decided to move to a hybrid pricing plan : a flat rate to cover mixing and editing (per song) and an hourly rate for all other studio time (pre production, setup, tracking, and alternate mixes/backups). By my estimates I'll probably earn an extra 33-50% by actually being paid for ALL of the work I'm doing (gasp). All that extra money comes after the bills are paid too, so I might be able to get cheese on my Whopper and maybe finally get those Josephson mics I've been eyeing.

We'll see how it goes.

Cory

[Wilburguy]

Hourly all the way for me.

[Joram]

The choice between day and hour rate is most practical for both the client and the studio. When you just have to do for some extra overdubbing or a quick editing job for example, 1 or 2 hours can be enough. For a more complex situation a client would probably choose for a day. With smart planning a studio could do both the overdub- and the whole-day session. (Perhaps an opportunity for an assistent to do the overdubs?).
In those cases it should be clear for both clients, that they are not paying for each other. (Therefore the dayrate should have a max in hours).
For the studio the good thing is that you keep a client and the project at your place with all the advantages. A client sees the opportunity for a short session as a service.

[9th Ward Records]

a. price, b. project & c. other

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by mu6gr8

First off, I'm advocating a project rate as a producer/mixer fee for a human being, not necessarily as a rental charge for the use of a recording studio. As such, part of my job is to know how long a job should take, so the client/artist and I discuss the goals and the expectations before I take a deposit and book the gig. We're on the same page before we start working. If I were to cause the job to take longer than planned, it would be my responsibility to deal with it. If the client causes a delay, a pre-negotiated day rate applies to the extra time. Nobody wants to go there--my next gig is usually scheduled to begin right after the current one, and was probably booked months in advance. Plus the artist presumably has a release date that's been set in stone. It would be a drag to fall behind; both parties are motivated to stick to the game plan, which is documented in the deal memo or contract. Both parties have a shared responsibility to stay on track.

Re: pro studios, the ones where I record and mix offer only day rates, with additional hourly charges kicking in after 12 or 14 hours. Booking enough consecutive days will usually get you a discounted project rate.

If your talking about as a producer or as a mixer that can be a different story since
you have a different level of control. Also there often is something on the back end if there is success with the project. It goes with out saying that if your the cause of a project taking longer you have to deal with that and make it right for the client. That happens even by the hour. Most pro studios in NY don't just charge day rates they charge by the hour.

[wirerecording]

As a studio/eng NEVER, NEVER,NEVER, offer an open ended deal !!!! I do not, but everyone I know who does finds themselves in a bind. 9 out of 10 times, someone feels like they are getting a bad deal regardless of reality. I only do daily rates period. The studio price NEVER changes. If i feel the need to cut a deal, I make it clear that it is coming off my engineering fee, not studio price. that way I always get full studio price when others book the room. I know this turns some folks away, but i'd rather clients feel bad before i work with them, not after. My goal is to have clear expectations, then exceed them.

stuart

[Jules]

Originally Posted by BLUElightCory

I've almost always used a per-project flat rate, as I like to really take my time and do things right. I've never been one to do "demos;" I've always tried to give clients the maximum quality that I can offer for them at a rate that's affordable for most serious bands.

This is the case FOR pre project billing. Its not for everyone, but the attitude of the producer / engineer - "I'm not letting this leave my studio, until it sounds decent" I find totally understandable.

Often the last project leaving the studio, will be the reason another band books in (our friends CD sounded amazing, we want to book time etc etc)

Bands and managers are ALWAYS misjudging the amount of time needed to get something sounding good. So if you feel your reputation rides on your studios out put - charging per project, takes that time management out of their hands and puts it into the producers..

Flipside of it of course is that you need to be in a position of power.... enough to be able to call the shots on when a project is finished or when its not.

You really have to pick your projects to make sure the acts will be cool with it, it could backfire on you and you could have a band expecting you to spend the rest of your life 'getting their project sounding right'

So the per project charging producer / engineers must exert more

Authority
Persuasion
Direction

On the projects they work on..

The per hour charging producer / engineers can run a 'its your money! I'll do what you want as long as you pay me" scenario. And in doing so they have to exert less

Authority
Persuasion
Direction

On the project, leaving more to the artist..

Also producers tend to be paid more per project....(and engineers per hour)

Some bands like to work like this some dont..