Music/Jingle Houses

[Led]

Machine Head. One of the best in the US.

[Windshore]

As there are hundreds, maybe it'd help to know why you're asking?

[Protools Guy]

Originally Posted by Windshore

As there are hundreds, maybe it'd help to know why you're asking?

I've written and recorded several pieces of music in different genres that might be good in a commercial. I'm looking for some people to work with to get them pitched. Thanks for your help!

[robdarling]

That's not really how the business works. The point of going to a jingle house is to get exactly what you want, either a knock-off of something real that needs to be tailored to all the timing of your video or a very specific idea. A big jingle house will also be able to give you a lot of variations on a theme.

A piece all by itself really isn't very useful. The spot starts with video, not music, unless it's starting with a specific pop hit. The music is made to go with the spot.

[Protools Guy]

Originally Posted by robdarling

That's not really how the business works. The point of going to a jingle house is to get exactly what you want, either a knock-off of something real that needs to be tailored to all the timing of your video or a very specific idea. A big jingle house will also be able to give you a lot of variations on a theme.

A piece all by itself really isn't very useful. The spot starts with video, not music, unless it's starting with a specific pop hit. The music is made to go with the spot.

Hey Rob -
Thanks for the insight.
I guess what I'm asking is for opportunities to write a piece of music (or pitch a piece of existing music) to go with a video for a commercial. Know what I mean? Any companies that you know of that might want to give me a shot?
Thanks again...

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Protools Guy

Hey Rob -
Thanks for the insight.
I guess what I'm asking is for opportunities to write a piece of music )or pitch a piece of existing music) to go with a video for a commercial. Know what I mean? Any companies that you know of that might want to give me a shot?
Thanks again...

As with anything else having to do with music or the entertainmant biz, you'll have to fight tooth and nail, and claw your way in. Nobody is going to hand it too you.

Go google this for a start:

jingle houses

Best of luck! Bill

[Windshore]

I have to be honest with you, if you're serious about it, you need to be able to write a few pieces and produce and record them within a few hours.... at a moments notice. Whatever you have written/ produced may be very worthy musically, ... but jingles are about speed, and catering to clients who don't know what they want.

I'd suggest building a large library. It's not uncommon for individual composer/producers to do 10 versions of a spot, or 10 spots in a week. If you can crank out totally high quality stuff at that pace, that clients like, ... you'll be very busy.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by Protools Guy

Anyone care to share the names of any reputable music/jingle houses that get gigs for tv commercials?

You may want to start by removing the word "jingle" which isn't gonna earn you points from a Music House when asking for a gig. That term is a cliche and references the past days of silly, catchy bubble gum tunes, a past some will appreciate but most will not. Some of today's music houses are churning out music that is every bit as legitimate as the largest album productions. Say, "nice jingle" and notice the response.

As for actually getting someone to give you a chance, just send them an email with a link to an MP3 of the track(s) you're referring to. Someone will listen and it might spark some interest. Be prepared for a lot of non-responses though.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by Windshore

Whatever you have written/ produced may be very worthy musically, ... but jingles are about speed, and catering to clients who don't know what they want.

That's good advice. Although speed will be important, the absolute MOST important skill is the ability to interpret requests from clients that will often be vague and may not appear to have anything to do with music. Some clients will be very specific, others will throw out words that don't make any damn sense to you at all. You'd need to cut through all of that and give them a track that makes the visuals come alive. If you can make them realize that your music makes it a much better spot and you can do it with consistency, you're in. There's also the understanding of ad politics but that's a whole other thread. A whole other forum.

[Protools Guy]

Originally Posted by elambo

That's good advice. Although speed will be important, the absolute MOST important skill is the ability to interpret requests from clients that will often be vague and may not appear to have anything to do with music. Some clients will be very specific, others will throw out words that don't make any damn sense to you at all. You'd need to cut through all of that and give them a track that makes the visuals come alive. If you can make them realize that your music makes it a much better spot and you can do it with consistency, you're in. There's also the understanding of ad politics but that's a whole other thread. A whole other forum.

Thanks to you all. I have now removed the word "jingle" from my vernacular. I'd love to give this a shot. The idea of putting something of quality together in a short time period gives me an adrenalin rush.

Again, any specific places to contact would be greatly appreciated.

Happy Holidays!

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by Windshore

I have to be honest with you, if you're serious about it, you need to be able to write a few pieces and produce and record them within a few hours.... at a moments notice. Whatever you have written/ produced may be very worthy musically, ... but jingles are about speed, and catering to clients who don't know what they want.

I'd suggest building a large library. It's not uncommon for individual composer/producers to do 10 versions of a spot, or 10 spots in a week. If you can crank out totally high quality stuff at that pace, that clients like, ... you'll be very busy.

and if the agent is big, and the client is big, you're going to be dealing with a LOT of competition all around you, as well as invisible competition from lateral firms. which means, you could be doing a LOT of potentially unpaid work, and that you have to be able to take rejection really well, because it's a natural part of the idiom.

this can be very frustrating. i can tell you from experience.

if you're really talented, and motivated, though, i wouldn't NECESSARILY discourage you from trying. but, talking to younger, more excited people who are actually successful IN the business may help to shed some light on the reality for you. find a way to get to those people, but remember it's a very competetive business, so don't be surprised if people are snappy, or unhelpful - after all, they'll view you as potential competition.

good luck.

[Protools Guy]

Originally Posted by Sqye

they'll view you as potential competition.

I'm kinda' getting that impression as there has been only one guy (Led) who has offered any names. Thanks Led! You are obviously very secure in your talent.

Anyone else?

Best regards...

[Mike Tholen]

www.genuinemusicinc.com

[Protools Guy]

Mike Tholen! Another secure talent willing to help a brother out!

I have a question for all: What percentage of the $$ do most music houses take?

Thanks again to everyone...

[robdarling]

Dude, it's not security.

It's as if you started a thread asking what the big studios were and how you'd get a job at one and how much will you make.

Or how about this one: I have a band. How do I get signed? Do you know what labels to contact? How much will my deal be?

Be real. It's a huge, huge industry with a million versions that you apparently have zero attachment to.

You've been given a very honest and up front bunch of answers about how it works, and some very real perspectives.

Don't turn it into a pissing contest.

Here's a very real response:

Jingle houses regularly getting major national spots do not spend time listening to unsolicited demos. Period. I've never, ever seen it happen.

Why?

First off, they are in major advertising towns that have lots of local talent.

Additionally, for all the reasons outlined above, what you put together is nowhere near as important as how you deliver under pressure to what the clients want in many, many kinds of genres of music. They can only know this by seeing you under pressure writing to picture. For this reason, unless they know you and have seen you work, either by cross-pollenation of houses or from working up from within (by far the best path), it doesn't happen by just sending out some music in a demo.

[joshelevator]

Originally Posted by Protools Guy

I'm kinda' getting that impression as there has been only one guy (Led) who has offered any names. Thanks Led! You are obviously very secure in your talent.

Anyone else?

Best regards...

for me, ive spent years getting my feet in doors of small and big jingle (music production is more pc) houses and personally couldn't see myself "giving up" my sources for work, especially to someone i don't know. some of these places are small and adding another producer in the mix only will decrease my chances of getting paid. sorry but thats that. i think thats why you're not going to get a lot of reponses. you have to do a search yourself. for most, they had to go through a lot of hardwork and BS to get these relationships going. its not a "secure enough with my talent" thing , its the fact that i had to do a lot of work to get into this. as it is now, when i get calls for a gig, i know im competing against tons (10, 20...) of other people.

[dbbubba]

I started "jingle" engineering with Bill Meeks back in the late '70s. He is pretty much regarded as the person who pretty much started the concept of CUSTOM MUSIC for radio advertisements and radio IDs. He started PAMs in the early '50s.
www.pams.com

Most of the big CUSTOM MUSIC composers/producers got their start by building a demo reel and shopping it to ad agencies. Eventually you get used on a successful campaign and they start to use you. Eventualy you get to be the "go to" guy.

Other VERY important items:

You are convenient to the agency's location
You have a client friendly studio
You are the kind of person that the producer wants to hang out with
They trust your decisions
You can turn out product in a timely manner
You can change your product in a timely manner

You might be wise to contact a company that sells production music libraries.
They will listen to your music and if it is something they need, they'll buy it.

How are you paid?
Buy out... one time fee.
You can also get a "creative fee" if you are part of that process.
If you are EXTREMELY lucky you might get points.... don't expect this.

Custom music can bring $15k for a composition and the work to make it right.
Production music is a different matter and usually brings in between $500.00 $1200.00 per COMPLETED piece.
Obviously a fully orchestrated (with real instruments) will bring more than a "rock" style cut.

If you really want to get in this business then start worked at or with a studio or company that already does this type of work.

Danny Brown

[Subsonic]

If you want to get into the "jingle house" scene, move to Chicago. Commercial Music houses tend to spring up where the big marketing and ad agencies are headquartered, and many of the biggest are in Chicago like Frankel and Leo Burnett.

Go to this site, http://www.creativedir.com. Browse for a couple hours, as this site is sort of the ad industry contact motherload for the midwest. Thank me later when you're rich from writing the next "Ho Ho Ho, Green Giant" jingle.

[steve 413]

i'd like to 2nd all the comments of extremely short deadlines. I engineer for a composer who does a lit of jingle work. The deadlines are completely crazy and the descriptions the client gives are terrible
"I want something that kind of sounds big and anthemic but maybe dance-y and i need it this afternoon" was one we heard last week for a car dealership.

[dbbubba]

There is way more than writing "music that would sound good for a TV commercial."

Can you make it be EXACTLY 59.30?
29.30?

There is quite an art involved.

DB

[joshelevator]

my average deadline would be 48 hours. many time 36 or 24. its crazy. not to mention, your often dealing with people who aren't good at giving musical direction who are dealing with ad people who aren't good at giving musical direction. like most grind work in the music biz, if you love to work on music , this is not the best business to be in. ive seen most people i know in the biz completely stop working on their own music. just jingles, all the time, with crazy deadlines, and dealing with ad/music house people all the time.

[Protools Guy]

Thanks Subsonic, Bubba, Josh, Steve & Rob -

Rob - Thanks! I'm certainly not trying to turn anything into a pissing contest. Just trying to learn someting here. I thought that was what this forum was for. Sorry to have given you the wrong impression.

Subsonic - Thanks for the link. That's the kind of thing I'm looking for. Much appreciated.

Steve - I appreciate the underscoring of the short deadlines. It seems like a very challenging undertaking, but very I'm willing to give it a shot.

Josh - I understand your position in not wanting to give up your sources. Like I said, this is my first attempt to learn about this, and I do appreciate your sincerity as well as your respectful reply.

Danny Brown - Thanks so much for your information. You obviously have quite a bit of expertise in this field. Thanks for understanding my lack of experience.

Anyone else care to offer any further guidance?

Happy Holidays to you all and I hope you have a very successful 2007...

[joelpatterson]

The only advice I've got may seem trivial... "I only need more piece of gear" is your signature... is that supposed to mean something?

[gsilbers]

Originally Posted by Protools Guy

Mike Tholen! Another secure talent willing to help a brother out!

I have a question for all: What percentage of the $$ do most music houses take?

Thanks again to everyone...

well, could be that you are good at writting music but here are few things.

as someone pointed out, music or jingle houses dont buy your music.

what you looking for is for your music to be in music catalogs or stock music. like "xtreme music" etc. which will have your song as well as a pool of composers in one cd for video editors, music supervisors etc. to be place in film and video and comercials.

its usually a publishing company you share 50%/50 if your lucky or a derivation of publiching company.

as for jingles and jingles houses , you have to prepare a demo to work in one.
not only does your music has to sound profesional quality but it has to be done in
less than 5-8 hours. i worked in NYC and call for a comercial where at 11am and for the next day we needed to have 10 demos for one comercial. it was about 5 composers in total, one studio with a SSL and a kickass engineer.
studio stays with 60% and the rest was shared among the composers who one the gig.
the demos, are about as profesional quality as u can get. its the type of demos you will want to pitch sony to get to produce a cristina agulera almbum or simething.

that one gig was for budwieser and they pay 60 grand for the winner and 5000 for the demos.

[Protools Guy]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

The only advice I've got may seem trivial... "I only need more piece of gear" is your signature... is that supposed to mean something?

Hey Joel -

It's a repetitive phrase that continues to come out of my mouth every time I try to get approval from the CFO (my wife) every time I want to buy something new... Only meant as a joke. Maybe you've been there?

[Protools Guy]

Originally Posted by gsilbers

well, could be that you are good at writting music but here are few things.

as someone pointed out, music or jingle houses dont buy your music.

what you looking for is for your music to be in music catalogs or stock music. like "xtreme music" etc. which will have your song as well as a pool of composers in one cd for video editors, music supervisors etc. to be place in film and video and comercials.

its usually a publishing company you share 50%/50 if your lucky or a derivation of publiching company.

as for jingles and jingles houses , you have to prepare a demo to work in one.
not only does your music has to sound profesional quality but it has to be done in
less than 5-8 hours. i worked in NYC and call for a comercial where at 11am and for the next day we needed to have 10 demos for one comercial. it was about 5 composers in total, one studio with a SSL and a kickass engineer.
studio stays with 60% and the rest was shared among the composers who one the gig.
the demos, are about as profesional quality as u can get. its the type of demos you will want to pitch sony to get to produce a cristina agulera almbum or simething.

that one gig was for budwieser and they pay 60 grand for the winner and 5000 for the demos.

That's great info. Thanks so much. Hope you get many more! This Bud's for you...

[gsilbers]

cool. let me know if u need any other info

[burst]

Originally Posted by robdarling

Additionally, for all the reasons outlined above, what you put together is nowhere near as important as how you deliver under pressure to what the clients want in many, many kinds of genres of music. They can only know this by seeing you under pressure writing to picture. For this reason, unless they know you and have seen you work, either by cross-pollenation of houses or from working up from within (by far the best path), it doesn't happen by just sending out some music in a demo.

Nailed it.

Spot on. We're a tiny music house and even we don't have time to listen to demos. I can't imagine how the Bigs handle it.

Best of luck! If you're great and fast, you won't have to be cheap. Great work always find a way to get heard...

[midigod]

Originally Posted by Protools Guy

Hey Joel -

It's a repetitive phrase that continues to come out of my mouth every time I try to get approval from the CFO (my wife) every time I want to buy something new... Only meant as a joke. Maybe you've been there?

I think he was referring to the fact that the word "one" seems to be missing from the sig...

-Craig