Hans Zimmer on how to sound like him

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by spaceman

Who says music in film should never draw attention to itself ? That's a very conservative hollywoodian view of what film should be or should be not.

au contraire. Hollywood scores draw attention to themselves!! But of course - no rules.
Just think the use of music in 2001 is ... ugh. For me !!

[Tui]

Originally Posted by spaceman

Who says music in film should never draw attention to itself ?

Indeed. Great music will enhance a great movie. However, if conception and realisation of a movie is uninspired (as with practically all Hollywood stuff these days), I suppose it's only fitting if the music is instantly forgettable, too.

[mattsearles]

Maybe I'm missing something.. but why the hell would I want to sound like Hans Zimmer.. there's already a Hans Zimmer... he's taken?

[mattsearles]

ok.. i read it through... i'm glad he's on the same page with me on that one.. lol.. that and.. it's pretty freaking awesome that he can sign his post with Hz...

[donato]

Still confused about what his reference to Francis Lai was all about. It's like it was a response to something else. Any ideas?

[ionian]

Originally Posted by narcoman

Silence would have been even better.

Great observation. Although overall the music in 2001 never bothered me, I always felt that the scene with the ship docking and Strauss playing; I always felt that Strauss cheapened that whole scene. I always thought it was a bad music choice for that scene. Silence during that scene would have been pretty powerful but I never thought of that. Next time I watch 2001 I'm going to mute the Strauss part so it's silent and see how it affects me.

H ans Zimmer? I liked him in my 20s, around the Crimson Tide era but in all honesty I feel like I outgrew his scores. Kind of like my tastes matured and changed and he stayed where he was. He doesn't do it for me. Besides, once I figured out that I could slap a low choir and brass patch on whatever I wrote and sound like instant Zimmer, I lost interest!

But the same could be said for Michael Bay. When I was 20, his action films excited me. Now that I'm older, his directorial efforts seem more like caricatures of real films then actual movies.


Regards,
Frank

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by Tui

Indeed. Great music will enhance a great movie. However, if conception and realisation of a movie is uninspired (as with practically all Hollywood stuff these days), I suppose it's only fitting if the music is instantly forgettable, too.

Great music doesn't draw attention to itself. It invites you in - rather than screaming "listen TO MEEEEE".

In film music this is even more evident. Like good CGI (you don't notice it - watch Zodiac for the best CGI ever), like good lighting (it doesn't look like lighting, it looks real).... etc etc.

[Silky Smoove]

Originally Posted by narcoman

Great music doesn't draw attention to itself. It invites you in - rather than screaming "listen TO MEEEEE".

Indeed. If, and this is a big "if," the music and the film work together, the music can be right in your face and it won't seem obtrusive. It'll enhance the overall experience. Synergy is created between the two. An example is the mounting tension provided by the somewhat unorthodox, but absolutely amazing work done on "There Will Be Blood."

[narcoman]

Yes - you said it much better than I.

[Leevi]

Some folks might find this interesting

Interview: Mark Wherry, Man Behind Hollywood’s Digital Musical Instruments, Hans Zimmer Collaborator

[Solar]

Originally Posted by timtoonz

I think most of what he says, at least in this interview, is insightful, on the money, and very cool of him to share. If a guy with Zimmer's credits wants to share some of what he's learned over the years, I'd suggest you keep your ears wide open and grab what you can.

Totally agree and almost 90% of what he covers in his answers are spot on and he's simply being honest and reflects to today's reality. (I find)

Thanx for sharing Always great to read and hear from experienced top folks that have wear & been in a our shoes or upcoming young composers before

[Solar]

Originally Posted by Leevi

Some folks might find this interesting

Interview: Mark Wherry, Man Behind Hollywood’s Digital Musical Instruments, Hans Zimmer Collaborator

Very very interesting indeed. Thanx for sharing this

[Hans Zimmer]

thats my post on Vi Forum...awesome

[Dave.R]

Originally Posted by Hans Zimmer

thats my post on Vi Forum...awesome

hey!

good of you to stop by and take the time to post.

would you consider doing an Expert Question & Answer here on Gearslutz? i'm sure the participation would be huge

either way, i hope to see you here from time to time

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by Dave.R

hey!

good of you to stop by and take the time to post.

would you consider doing an Expert Question & Answer here on Gearslutz? i'm sure the participation would be huge

either way, i hope to see you here from time to time

I have no idea whether that was Hans or not - but he has posted here before but not under that name. He gave an excellent chat on why sounding like him is a pointless exercise.

[MarkusColeman]

Originally Posted by narcoman

I have no idea whether that was Hans or not - but he has posted here before but not under that name. He gave an excellent chat on why sounding like him is a pointless exercise.

Somewhere on page one someone calls Le Hans Zimmer's sound "pompous" and then as a counter-example mention's Tchaikovsky's 4th. It must've been Tchaikovsky's alias here on Gearslutz, because we all know, no one was as pompous as him.

After listening to the 1st movement for the first time in years, I had to clean my ears with McFerrin's "Don't worry, be happy" and then with some Bach stuff played by Glenn Gould.

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by Explojoseph

Originally Posted by Xill
"Hans Zimmer in my opinion has 1% the talent of Ligeti, 0.1% the talent of Stravinsky, and 0.001% the talent of Tchaikovsky and Mahler.

Pirates of the Caribbeans lol
That music is epic pompous cheapness from an Hollywood medium that's behind times and has only the commercial mass market as a priority.

Tchaikovsky's 4th Symphony, that's a lesson in composition.
Ravel's La Valse, a lesson in orchestration."

I have one thing to say to you. You're a bigot. people like you are a dime a dozen in the music industry and you need to get over yourself. its pathetic. There is room in this world for many different styles, stravinski (well he's dead now, may he r.i.p.) and hanz included. Yur just upset because you cant fathom how music can be so simple, bombastic, predictable and absolutely amazing all at the same time.

Get used to snobbism when it comes to film music, it has the same clueless
wrath spewn upon it that even the greatest pop...ie...Beatles....has to endure.

Stravinsky once showed interest in scoring films...but when told he would have six weeks....rather than six months....to deliver the score, he lost interest immediately lol

[antithesist]

Apologies if this has already been posted, but it is indeed my favorite and actually only, Hans Zimmer anecdote. That said, it's not "mine," but Synth80s', and I think the origin is the Analog Heaven list:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry for the OT post, but one more Zimmer story.

While I was interning at Media Ventures, I was also working out and playing lots of sports on nights and weekends. Yes, I was young and in great shape back then -- you'll have to take my word on that. ;-)

Anyhow, while playing basketball one weekend, I injured my ankle pretty nicely. Still angling for some sort of job at that time, I didn't want to go unseen at Media Ventures for a week or so to recover at home. Basically, I didn't want to lose my "rank" among the interns so I showed up on crutches and did whatever I could to still be useful.

Now keep in mind that almost all the interns there were trying to work their way into a role as an assistant film or TV composer (I was more interested in engineering and studio operations, but hey). Here's the fun bit:

One day while I was crutching down the hall, Hans was headed the other direction, cigarette in hand with his entourage trailing behind. He saw me, stopped and asked me in a sarcastically bemused tone: "So what happened to you?" I told him that I sprained my ankle playing basketball but I was still fine to work. Without pause, he shook his head dismissively and unloaded, "How many times do I have to tell you people? If you want to succeed in this line of work, you need to sit in a chair and ****ing smoke!!"

It was all in good fun and everyone had a laugh. Hell, I don't know if he even knew who I was, but I still get a smile out of that sage advice. I never took up smoking which may explain why I'm just a lowly, Oscar-less basement synth tinkerer. ;-)

-Synth80s

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit: Oops, I forgot about the censorship. **** in ****ing is the f-word.

[Dave.R]

so Stravinsky has .01% the talent Tchaikovsky and Mahler

i wanna know the numbers for Beethoven vs Mozart and Bach

[scruffydog]

all these old masters would struggle to make the technology work!

and struggle even more to do an in the box mock up mix!!

and never allow the dialogue and SFX a look in!

Hans is in many ways an equal.

[nas]

Originally Posted by scruffydog

all these old masters would struggle to make the technology work!

and struggle even more to do an in the box mock up mix!!

and never allow the dialogue and SFX a look in!

Hans is in many ways an equal.

uhmmm.... no.

First of all, I think your comparing apples to oranges... composing for the concert hall and for a film require very different aesthetic considerations (which is essentially what you have said).

However, even if that wasn't the case, IMHO the great masters have achieved such I highly cultivated and developed level of technique and degree of artistic and creative ability... that if say Ravel wanted to sit down and develop his sensabilites and aesthetic for a film score, I'm guessing it wouldn't be the most difficult or challenging thing he's had to overcome in his musical and technical journey. It's also worth noting that many of the early film scoring "masters" where heavily influenced by the Romantic era composers and 20th century greats like Stravinsky, Schoenberg, and Bartok.

If one is going to make comparisons of this kind, I would submit, that of the more recent film composers of the last 30 years, it was John Williams who come along and returned to that expansive and romantic style as a nod to the romantic era masters and other earlier "romantic style" film composer greats such as Erich Korngold... and Williams has done it with very credible technical/aesthetic abilities that adapted to the more modern film score. Say what you will about his style and your own personal preferences, but he is a master of spotting a film and of course has a very strong classical/orchestral background as a composer and conductor... and I'm not sure I would call him an "equal" to the old masters either.

FWIW I love most of Hanz Zimmer's work and his conceptual/musical approach to the various tasks he's been given over a wide variety of films he's done, but with all due respect, to say the he's "in many ways an equal to the old masters" is I think a bit (a lot) of a stretch... and I'm sure the old masters would have used whatever technology was available at the time.

[scruffydog]

well...perhaps i am an 'old master'..as all i seem to make with computers is a load of crap!!

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by nas

uhmmm.... no.

First of all, I think your comparing apples to oranges... composing for the concert hall and for a film require very different aesthetic considerations (which is essentially what you have said).

However, even if that wasn't the case, IMHO the great masters have achieved such I highly cultivated and developed level of technique and degree of artistic and creative ability... that if say Ravel wanted to sit down and develop his sensabilites and aesthetic for a film score, I'm guessing it wouldn't be the most difficult or challenging thing he's had to overcome in his musical and technical journey. It's also worth noting that many of the early film scoring "masters" where heavily influenced by the Romantic era composers and 20th century greats like Stravinsky, Schoenberg, and Bartok.

If one is going to make comparisons of this kind, I would submit, that of the more recent film composers of the last 30 years, it was John Williams who come along and returned to that expansive and romantic style as a nod to the romantic era masters and other earlier "romantic style" film composer greats such as Erich Korngold... with very credible technical/aesthetic abilities that adapted to the more modern film score. Say what you will about his style and your own personal preferences, but he is a master of spotting a film and of course has a very strong classical/orchestral background as a composer and conductor... and I'm not sure I would call him an "equal" to the old masters either.

FWIW I love most of Hanz Zimmer's work and his conceptual/musical approach to the various tasks he's been given over a wide variety of films he's done, but with all due respect, to say the he's "in many ways an equal to the old masters" is a bit (a lot) of a stretch I think... and I'm sure the old masters would have used whatever technology was available at the time.

Yes John Williams is in a whole different league. Still writes with pencil and score, too ("We don't need no steenking computer!")

TH

[Dwssoundz]

Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Mozart, Stravinsky, whomever all made music for their patrons. if they were alive today they would probably be film composers. See composing for court and nobleman and country was where the big paycheck was. It wasn't about how to be the most technically profound composer it was still about making a living. It just so happened that governments, and aristocrats paid for that stuff. The same way that rich hollywood producers pay for Hans. Now within that you see some really masterful stuff being done i.e Mozart and figoro, rite of spring (stravinsky), while you are also seeing great things being done today just a different medium. The blend of synths with real orchestra is masterful. Now to burst a few bubbles all these guys copy and reuse and recycle ideas. Horner uses the same cue in Avatar that he used in Troy. The famed star wars and superman themes come from Gustav Holst the planets. So what difference does it all make. Hans is good simple.

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by Dwssoundz

Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Mozart, Stravinsky, whomever all made music for their patrons. if they were alive today they would probably be film composers. See composing for court and nobleman and country was where the big paycheck was. It wasn't about how to be the most technically profound composer it was still about making a living. It just so happened that governments, and aristocrats paid for that stuff. The same way that rich hollywood producers pay for Hans. Now within that you see some really masterful stuff being done i.e Mozart and figoro, rite of spring (stravinsky), while you are also seeing great things being done today just a different medium. The blend of synths with real orchestra is masterful. Now to burst a few bubbles all these guys copy and reuse and recycle ideas. Horner uses the same cue in Avatar that he used in Troy. The famed star wars and superman themes come from Gustav Holst the planets. So what difference does it all make. Hans is good simple.

All good points, but no themes were lifted from Holst by Williams. The orchestration and moods are similar in some cues, per Spielberg, not themes.

Many people only hear Williams main themes without actually listening to the full scores, or watching how well the cues within the film work...he has stated that he works very hard on those "simple themes"....which are the equivalent to coming up with a hit record's "hook"....but his work within each film is always stunning. "Planting The Charges" is a great example, from the climax of "Towering Inferno," or the "Commando Raid" cue from "Black Sunday". "Jaws" is remembered by the guy on the street as the two note motif rather than it's complex integration and transformations of themes throughout.

For complex main titles well beyond the average "Hollywood" composer, listen to the Main Title to "Nixon" ("I wasn't expecting that..." said Stone)....or the amazing score to "Schindler's List." Totally different level of composing from even the best out there.

Re Zimmer, to me his scores have always hit the mark and work wonderfully with what is onscreen. That's all he is paid to do, after all.

[Dwssoundz]

I guess "come from" meant not technically the same but they're a lot of similarities. I honestly I think some of William's best scores are Catch me if you can and the Harry Potter's. Not the one's he's so famously known for.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by Dwssoundz

I guess "come from" meant not technically the same but they're a lot of similarities. I honestly I think some of William's best scores are Catch me if you can and the Harry Potter's. Not the one's he's so famously known for.

Catch Me if you can is an AWESOME score. Williams being Williams there - proper jazz arranger.

[pethenis]

Found this:

"A challenge to all Hans Zimmer fans. Find a long flight of carpeted stairs. Set up audio recording gear around said. Set up an unstable tower of bricks at the top of the stairs. Topple said down those stairs and record the sound they make. Replay said at various speeds and put your? hand on your heart and swear on your Mother's life that said doesn't sound astonishingly similar to a Zimmer score. I ****ing dare you! I ****ing double dare you!"

Underneath this:

Interview with James Horner about "Aliens" - YouTube

Very funny reaction to a very interesting piece of video

[Quantum7]

Originally Posted by pethenis

Interview with James Horner about "Aliens" - YouTube

Thanks for that link. I really enjoyed watching that interview with one of my favorite movie composers.