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Hans Zimmer on how to sound like him
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#31
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
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I like some of his video game work...Call of Duty, Crysis 2 was awesome. People tend to like alot of his work, but yea...not all of his work is top notch.....but musicians can't all have flawless work. The more work you do....the better you have to be and that's tough.
#32
3rd March 2012
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Really?? I find the Crysis 2 theme really annoying. That semitonal transition on the overdriven guitar makes me cringe! And it always reminds me of 28 days Later. :p
#33
3rd March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundaytrucker View Post
I'm a huge Zimmer fan, However, Inception was the only soundtrack he did that I didn't like. I see a lot people on forums and youtube praising his work on this movie and I just don't hear it. Not even close to Dark Knight or Gladiator in my opinion, but hey, we all know the drill, opinions are like......

I guess I'm a sucker for the big memorable Zimmer Hook, and I didn't get it in Inception.

Again, love all of his other work.
Wow- different strokes for different folks. Inception was one of the hookiest scores I'd heard in ages, to my ears. I find lots of Zimmer's work 'take it or leave it', but Inception really impressed me. And as to the other comment that it 'distracts from the story', I can see a viewer having that impression. But the fact is the director is really involved in picking and mixing the score to picture. If Christopher Nolan felt it distracted in any way, he wouldn't be using it - so it's a pretty safe bet that the score is an integral part of the director's vision for the movie. The imagery and the score, to me, worked very closely together at the climax to form an epic 'over the top, larger than life' mood. Which seems kinda right for a dream-scape....

But everybody hears and sees it differently of course. That's what makes the world go round!

And, call me nuts, but I'm fairly sure if Stravinsky or Mahler or Tchaikovsky were alive today, they'd be working on film scores too, and then folks online would complain they weren't as good as "real" composers of the past..
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#34
3rd March 2012
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I saw a picture of his studio somewhere on the internet and wow... He has some pretty impressive stuff in there haha.
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#35
3rd March 2012
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Do you guys notice that it is always the unsuccessful and nobody's that like to put down successful artists like Mr. Zimmer? You will never hear a successful artist like John Williams or Danny Elfman talk about another successful artist and put him down. I honestly believe that people who do this truly are jealous and feel inferior to those whom they are putting down. I don't particularly like the music of a lot of big-name artists throughout history, but I will always give them their dues and respect their talent. Music is all subjective, or course, but one does not rise to the notoriety in soundtrack composition like Mr. Zimmer without an abundance of talent, respect, and admiration from a large body of the general populous.

If one seeks good karma and success in their career aspirations, such as composing, then one must first learn to respect and wish good will upon all their fellow man who strive for success in their passions. Just my opinion.
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#36
3rd March 2012
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Inception is one of the best scores I've ever heard, bar nothing.

Here's what I consider talent.

Take two notes. Make a moving score out of it. Everyone who wants complexity forgets how cliched most classical music sounds. Spoiler alert: Ever listened to the last 5 seconds of any classical era piece? They all resolve EXACTLY THE SAME.
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#37
3rd March 2012
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I too found the Inception score to be very effective. Powerful.
Yet i couldn't help thinking "i've heard this before" (much the same as when i saw Avatar).
I later realised that what i had heard before was "journey to the line" from 'Thin Red Line'. Another Zimmer score.
I guess after studying film score after film score they all start to sound the same in one way or another...
#38
3rd March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum7 View Post
Do you guys notice that it is always the unsuccessful and nobody's that like to put down successful artists like Mr. Zimmer? You will never hear a successful artist like John Williams or Danny Elfman talk about another successful artist and put him down. I honestly believe that people who do this truly are jealous and feel inferior to those whom they are putting down. I don't particularly like the music of a lot of big-name artists throughout history, but I will always give them their dues and respect their talent. Music is all subjective, or course, but one does not rise to the notoriety in soundtrack composition like Mr. Zimmer without an abundance of talent, respect, and admiration from a large body of the general populous.

If one seeks good karma and success in their career aspirations, such as composing, then one must first learn to respect and wish good will upon all their fellow man who strive for success in their passions. Just my opinion.
Well said!
#39
3rd March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum7 View Post
wish good will upon all their fellow man who strive for success in their passions. Just my opinion.
all of them? is that really necessary?

#40
3rd March 2012
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When Stravinsky or Mahler or Tchaikovsky were alive today, they'd be cab drivers
#41
3rd March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum7 View Post
Do you guys notice that it is always the unsuccessful and nobody's that like to put down successful artists like Mr. Zimmer? You will never hear a successful artist like John Williams or Danny Elfman talk about another successful artist and put him down. I honestly believe that people who do this truly are jealous and feel inferior to those whom they are putting down. I don't particularly like the music of a lot of big-name artists throughout history, but I will always give them their dues and respect their talent. Music is all subjective, or course, but one does not rise to the notoriety in soundtrack composition like Mr. Zimmer without an abundance of talent, respect, and admiration from a large body of the general populous.

If one seeks good karma and success in their career aspirations, such as composing, then one must first learn to respect and wish good will upon all their fellow man who strive for success in their passions. Just my opinion.
So true, but after all we´re all human...not so easy to always be noble and grand when things aren´t going exactly as they should
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#42
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum7 View Post
Do you guys notice that it is always the unsuccessful and nobody's that like to put down successful artists like Mr. Zimmer? You will never hear a successful artist like John Williams or Danny Elfman talk about another successful artist and put him down. I honestly believe that people who do this truly are jealous and feel inferior to those whom they are putting down. I don't particularly like the music of a lot of big-name artists throughout history, but I will always give them their dues and respect their talent. Music is all subjective, or course, but one does not rise to the notoriety in soundtrack composition like Mr. Zimmer without an abundance of talent, respect, and admiration from a large body of the general populous.

If one seeks good karma and success in their career aspirations, such as composing, then one must first learn to respect and wish good will upon all their fellow man who strive for success in their passions. Just my opinion.
1: There are more bad artists than good artists, hence when someone complains that person is more likely to be a bad artist than a good artist.

2: Big name composers like John Williams, Danny Elfman et al are very famous and very high profile. I think they're unlikely to voice whatever dislike they feel for the musical creations of their own peers (if they feel such). Why? Because the animosity is pointless. Why make enemies when you can remain neutral?

3: Less famous and more "anonymous" composers can go out and bash someone like Hans Zimmer because they're not as famous, it is unlikely to cause a backlash of any kind, and Hans Zimmer isn't even going to know who they are in any case.
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#43
3rd March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claesbjo View Post
So true, but after all we´re all human...not so easy to always be noble and grand when things aren´t going exactly as they should
noble and grant ?? dont you overestimate yourself a little when you find it noble and grant not to rant about other artists? :-))

i think its just a question of respect.. and you dont need to respect the work of any producer out there.. you have to accept its exsitence anyway. But you dont need to embrace any crap..

But in this context mr zimmer is respectable.. He has the jobs because he is good and leaves the movie rooms to breath even with a full on widescreen soundtrack...
I ve only a problem with some of his collegs and this indiana jones type of soundtracks... hysterical orchester nightmares.. brrrrrr... horrible...

More or less a lucky accident that the movies survive that soundtracks.. the catchy story helps the audience to chew it and the relieve is great when the movie ends.. what is good to leave the people with a positive feeling after the movie.. So its probably no accident but a well designed tactics

People can take large chunks of slime when you put a movie with it...
#44
3rd March 2012
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  #44
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I liked this part the best:

Quote:
People can take large chunks of dissonance if you put a groove with it... And i procrastinate from writing by answering this question...
#45
4th March 2012
Old 4th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioconsult View Post
all of them? is that really necessary?

OMG....it took me a few minutes before I stopped laughing.
#46
4th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rifftrax2 View Post
Inception is one of the best scores I've ever heard, bar nothing.

Here's what I consider talent.

Take two notes. Make a moving score out of it. Everyone who wants complexity forgets how cliched most classical music sounds. Spoiler alert: Ever listened to the last 5 seconds of any classical era piece? They all resolve EXACTLY THE SAME.
Agreed, wonderful score.

One of the best examples of taking a few (literally) notes and making it the basis of an entire orchestral score is John William's "Black Sunday." It's initially played in the lower register of piano, as an introduction. By the end of the film, during the huge climax, the entire orchestra is playing it, interwoven with complex counterlines, extreme dissonance, different sections of the orchestra chiming in with it, really wonderful...it's really almost the perfect study in motif composing.

As far as Zimmer goes, he has created his own sound and approach and it works brilliantly. It doesn't matter if he has the training or "chops" of a Williams of Jerry Goldsmith, it matters that he has established a sonic identity that works well with the pictures he's hired to score. That's more than many more well schooled composers who all sound the same have done.

TH
#47
4th March 2012
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I would say lots of minor chords, always put a low male choir somewhere, preferably in 5ths.

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#48
4th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioconsult View Post
all of them? is that really necessary?

Hey, go easy on the Swiss guy
#49
4th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xill View Post
...I admit in today's world the commercial impact of your art is considered more respectable than the actual cultural value of your art.
...
But who defines what 'cultural value' is? Some would argue Walt Disney had a huge cultural impact on the last generations. Is the there no worth to that because you can't dissect one picture for hours like some do with a Picasso?

I'm not a fan of Britney Spears, but who am I to judge her contribution to music, when millions of people are emotionally moved by her work?

Some people define art as something that must be complicated and can only be understood and appreciated by people who are 'smart enough'. I always admired artists, who can pack something complicated as human emotions in something as simple as a song or a painting and touch other people's heart. Yeah, corny, but that's how I feel. And I think HZ succeeded in many movies just doing that.

Somebody posted a picture of DJ Bobo
I don't like his music either, but he sold a boatload of records and employed many people on the way. He's got my respect.
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#50
4th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum7 View Post
..

If one seeks good karma and success in their career aspirations, such as composing, then one must first learn to respect and wish good will upon all their fellow man who strive for success in their passions. Just my opinion.
Well said
#51
4th March 2012
Old 4th March 2012
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I agree with Xill, and I'm sure Mr. Hz would, too.

It's sadly characteristic these days of GS that all the ensuing thread chatter's been all around the Shiny Star and Does He Deserve the Fame or Not. What utter BS.

Hans is great at what he does, would never think of himself as in the same league as Stravinsky, say, and is not the point of his post.

I thought the most interesting thing was his criticism of "fake" reverb. If he were reading this, we'd be having a discussion instead about how that could or not be considered a prejudice right alongside the one that considers synthesizers "fake" instruments, compared with "natural" violins.

There are a lot of interesting things you can do with electronic delay and reverb (two parts of the same acoustic phenomenon), especially if it's digital. It may sound "unnatural" because of our trained expectations, and Hans has a point about hundreds of years of exploration of acoustic space versus 20 years of electronic simulation; however, it's not like the best engineers of electronic reverb haven't absorbed and indeed quantified much of that hundreds of years of learning in their work, either.

But reverb and delay can be areas of innovation and experimentation and a taking apart of prejudices as any other aspect of music. Psychoacoustics is a fascinating subject, and a lot has been learned here.

An informed experimentation in this area of sound, using digital means, is just as valid as any other aspect of electronic synthesis.

I can understand though that since Hans' commercial work is driven by the need to meet mass audience expectations, he'd want to work from the foundations of the familiar and convention here, just as he does in other areas of his practice. Nothing wrong with that, and it says nothing about his innovative and experimental capabilities as an artist, many of which he no doubt has to constrain for the sake of ongoing commercial success.
#52
4th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xill View Post
Hans Zimmer in my opinion has 1% the talent of Ligeti, 0.1% the talent of Stravinsky, and 0.001% the talent of Tchaikovsky and Mahler.

Tchaikovsky's 4th Symphony, that's a lesson in composition.
Ravel's La Valse, a lesson in orchestration.
A lesson?. Music isn't about mathematical intellectual stimulation imho. In fact I hate the term 'intellectual music' when people use that.

For me, what defines the talent of a composer/producer/artist is their ability to touch people with their music, be it emotionally and/or physically.

The more slow broad strokes style that Zimmers been using the past few years may seem more simple on paper, but have really touched me emotionally. That's all that really matters.
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#53
4th March 2012
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Originally Posted by Arksun View Post
The more slow broad strokes style that Zimmers been using the past few years may seem more simple on paper, but have really touched me emotionally. That's all that really matters.
Mr. Zimmer's "Chevaliers de Sangreal" from The Da Vinci Code film score really touches me emotionally even though it is perhaps simple at first glace. At its basic level it is just a chord phrase that repeats continually through the entire piece, but the gradual build and layers that evolve until the end are brilliant IMO. It's hard for me to picture someone who loves that genre of music to not be moved by this piece.
#54
4th March 2012
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The things you "touch me emotionally" guys just don't get is that that "result" is entirely from the fulfillment of banal, mass-produced musical expectation, drilled into you from birth essentially by corporate culture. You've been trained to hear certain sounds as "happy" or "sad" or "moving" and just wait to hear your conventional expectations satisfied.

Nothing wrong with this but it's like calling a bone flute a "natural" instrument and Skanner not.

Others take a different approach and actually master the discipline, theory and even science of sound (a necessary aspect for control over music on computer) for the sake of innovating in the art. The irony is that those innovations are likely to be judged "unmusical" and "too intellectual" by the majority; just as the first performance of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring provoked horror and fleeing among its audience (who were happiest with Strauss Waltzes as the pop pablum of their time, again, because it just repeated the fulfillment of the musical cliches of the time ad nauseam).

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#55
4th March 2012
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Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
The things you "touch me emotionally" guys just don't get is that that "result" is entirely from the fulfillment of banal, mass-produced musical expectation, drilled into you from birth essentially by corporate culture. You've been trained to hear certain sounds as "happy" or "sad" or "moving" and just wait to hear your conventional expectations satisfied.
Totally disagree. The very essense of what makes music special is that it touches us in ways that can't be explained down to simple formulas. If it was soo easy then everyone would simply join the dots and make music that touched us all. The reality is that simply does not happen. Many try thinking its that easy but fail miserably.

John Williams main theme to Jaws is just 2 notes, 2 friggen notes one semitone apart!. But it works incredibly well elevating that movie to a whole new level.

What you are doing here realtrance is forming a strong negative assumption based on nothing more than your own personal taste in music. For example you don't know me, nor my past, nor the music I was brought up with. Yet some how amazingly this drilled in corporate culture affected me but didn't affect you?!?. I think not.

When a person has a strong reaction to music, goosebumps stand on end, memories of past spring to mind. Nothing can take away that special feeling. That is what music is all about. That is what we as artists try to achieve, to make something that really connects with people and the stuff that does that is usually the stuff that connects with ourselves the most.

Maybe we just disagree on what the true values of music are. If music is a nothing more than a mental arithmetic stimulation for you and thats what you get a buzz out of the most, then of course enjoy and good luck to you
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#56
4th March 2012
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Sorry, but how can you listen to this and NOT feel like going out and kickin' some English aristocrat ass!?
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#57
4th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xill View Post
Hans Zimmer in my opinion has 1% the talent of Ligeti, 0.1% the talent of Stravinsky, and 0.001% the talent of Tchaikovsky and Mahler.

Pirates of the Caribbeans lol
That music is epic pompous cheapness from an Hollywood medium that's behind times and has only the commercial mass market as a priority.

Tchaikovsky's 4th Symphony, that's a lesson in composition.
Ravel's La Valse, a lesson in orchestration.
Ligeti, Stravinsky, Mahler, Tchaikovaky, and Ravel were not film composers. Different job descriptions. Sounds like you just appreciate "classical" music more than film music.
#58
4th March 2012
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Arksun, you create two extremist points of view, mischaracterizing and misunderstanding mine, and poorly defending your own.

That's fine; I'm happy to totally disagree with you, at this level of discussion.
#59
4th March 2012
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Hanz Zimmer Sound = the heavier and more reverbed the better.

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Sorry, but how can you listen to this and NOT feel like going out and kickin' some English aristocrat ass!?
Dang! I'd almost sell my soul to be able to play that well.....I say almost, though....I am kind of attached to my soul. Awesome rendition, though.
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