EWQLSO or Vienna Special Edition? Orchestra samples for film..
Old 11th March 2008
  #1
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EWQLSO or Vienna Special Edition? Orchestra samples for film..

for film scoring work, for a small budget film (with a bigger budget look), which would you recommend more out of:


Eastwest / Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra Platinum Edition

or

Vienna Instruments Vienna Instruments II Special Edition Sample Library?

and why?

I am mostly interested in ease of use, as I believe both will provide good sample quality.

The East West offering is their top of the line product, the Vienna offering is their bottom of the line (for a full orchestral sample set). The flagship Vienna version is too pricey for me.

I am using Logic.

Thanks alot for your help

narco

ps. If anyone is selling...
Old 11th March 2008
  #2
Gear interested
 

Hey,
Can't say I'm overwhelmed with QL Symphonic Orchestra Platinum, but there's things in there I always go to.

I think If I was reinvesting, I'd go for Vienna SE and then start upgrading the bits I needed, getting fast repetitions etc and also buying Appassionata strings (also VSL)

The problem with QLSOP is the legatos - The VLS stuff does that really well and you get legato patches in the SE package.

In an ideal world you have bits of different Orchestras as they all seem to do something better than the other. Kirk Hunters Samples always seem to get the thumbs up too - again maybe in combination with other Orchestras - Think he does the strings well.

Not sure if any of that helps!

Rich
Old 11th March 2008
  #3
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thanks rich

yes, one of the main reasons I was considering Vienna over EW was legato strings. I have the EW silver version and it is a relative weak point, I have never used Vienna but I know it has special functionality for this

do you think the strings in the SE version are lacking? hence the recommendation for the Appassionata ones? or just more options?

anyone else?

narco
Old 11th March 2008
  #4
Gear interested
 

Hey Narco,

Well I've never heard a bad thing about Appassionata - It seemed to plug a hole in the VSL library, which was lush 'hollywood' strings. It depends what style music you are composing. Probably my next purchase!

If you already have have Silver then you'll have a pretty good idea what Platinum will be like - I had Gold, which I think was identical, but without the mic positions - So I upgraded for the close mic position - hated the washy reverb on Gold. VSL stuff is pretty damn dry, which I like.

I think you'd probably get more composing options if you went for SE and then upgraded the bits you need, including adding Appassionata, if that's your thing- would work out the same price as Platinum. Also, I think when going for the VSL option, you are buying into something modular that will expand as you grow (and have more cash!) You can keep adding to your palate of articulations and sounds.

cheers
Old 11th March 2008
  #5
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Thread Starter
thanks rich

I am thinkin you are right

I'm glad to hear that Vienna is dry, as this was one of the main reasons I wanted Platinum over Silver or Gold

I've just been looking at the website for the vienna library, it seems they have good information and tutorials too, where as the east west one wasn't so immediately clear. Thats a good sign in favour of Vienna.

thanks again
narco
Old 11th March 2008
  #6
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Whilst the legato demos I've heard on the VSL website are very impressive I must just say that for cinematic grand orchestral realism QLSOplat pro is hard to beat. Out of the box and go it just works. Its all about that natural concert hall acoustic with the instruments in their right places and with the mic options you have the best of both worlds.. Call up 6 unison french horns with six dynamic layers with the surround mic samples - utterly awesome and perfect, no messing, No fx needed, less processor use and more time to score!

The whole of VSL is recorded in a dry studio accoustic so you have to work extra hard to get the acoustic space right and believable on top of spending all that time constructing each line so that the phrases sound right ( and wow they do sound great once you've put the time and effort into programming it ... having written it )

Lets no forget that Eastwest's new PLAY sample playback engine is the only thing on the market that will be able to make maximum usage of your available RAM in 64bit. you could make full use of 32 GIGS All other players are stuck in 32bit with and restricted to 3Gig ram

Platinum Pro is cheap now ( I ended up forking out £5K for my first copy now you can get it for $1K )

Ohhh and its the only library that works in Surround with a totally natural acoustic in the samples no screwing around ! - I just have a new DVD of orchestral classics coming out this month that was recorded in Surround in realtime on three computers using QLSO

If its film I think its the best answer
Old 11th March 2008
  #7
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noiseflaw's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beermaster View Post
The whole of VSL is recorded in a dry studio accoustic so you have to work extra hard to get the acoustic space right and believable on top of spending all that time constructing each line so that the phrases sound right...
I do not think that you have to work hard to get the acoustic space realistic at all, with VSL.

In fact The fact that the samples were recorded on the specially built soundstage is a huge advantage because it allows for maximum flexibility.

The New VSL Instrument software is extremely impressive I saw a demo and was blown away by it's intuitive versatility.

As for placing the instruments in their appropriate acoustic environment, just visit the VSL forums or check out some of Christian kardeis demos using Altiverb and the Todd AD Sounstage IR's.
Old 11th March 2008
  #8
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Energie's Avatar
 

EW has some very nice stuff in it, but if you don't get the platinum, some of the samples are a bit too wet in Gold XP and below, I have heard some really lush sounding peices with platinum, and Gold for that matter, but when used right, platinum can sound amazing. The drawback is as mentioned, no real portomento and easy slurs, yet. that may change in the future as they devolop thier play software.

Vienna, is fantastic when it comes to performance tools. And their newer releases are starting to add in that sound that was lacking with vienna imo.

its tough call, you will eventually need to get multiple libraries really, so its really a matter of what you need, EW sounds great out of the box, the sounds just fit together, a real time saver.
Old 11th March 2008
  #9
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I have EWQLSO Gold XP and am pretty happy with the sounds I get.

Super simple to use, and no dongle...the "wet" sounds you hear are that of a $ 125 million dollar concert hall, far from something that sounds bad.

The Gold version is a 16 bit library and the Platinum version is 24 bit with 3 microphone positions, for added depth for your recordings.

I have no experience with the Vienna library.
Old 11th March 2008
  #10
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Energie's Avatar
 

No, the hall sound is fantastic, however, it does get in the way if you want a dry solo sound, which does come in handy, which is why platinum is nice, cause you get close mics. Gold XP and the lower releases are all the stage mics, its really hard to get that close up intimate sound, which is needed very much for certain applications.

But for film score type of music, EW fits the bill wonderfully
Old 11th March 2008
  #11
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matt thomas's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
I have decided to get the Vienna version (possibly with extra strings), as I am more interested in getting authentic sounding phrasing, and less worried about panning and reverb

thanks for your help

narco
Old 11th March 2008
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narco View Post
I have decided to get the Vienna version (possibly with extra strings), as I am more interested in getting authentic sounding phrasing, and less worried about panning and reverb

thanks for your help

narco
Let us know how you like the program, we're expecting a full report !!
Old 11th March 2008
  #13
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duckoff's Avatar
 

I've got SE & Appasionata & I use them a bit for demos - they can sound pretty good, but they do require quite alot of work & fine tuning for critical ( upfront ) stuff.

The transition sample switching ( for legato / portamento etc ) is great but again you have to tweak it a fair bit - slow stuff is easier to get sounding right than faster lines ( as with all programmed strings I guess)

I havent used any of the others so I cant compare but I did an album a few months back & had a 20 piece string section replace the VSL stuff I'd done in preprod - I ended up using the VSL string parts instead of the real ones on one track & it doesnt stand out ( in a good way ).

PS I'm in logic too - make sure you have a dedicated drive ( or preferably computer ) for VSL - it is extremely resource hungry.
Old 12th March 2008
  #14
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Because of this thread, I decided to give the Vienna Special package demo's a listen....A couple of the demo's sounded a bit harsh and metalic to me, I didn't like them at all, then I listened to more of the demos and they sounded okay, but I still like the East West Gold XP sounds I already have. I would suggest you give a good hard listen to both program's demo before making a decision.
Old 12th March 2008
  #15
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If you're interested in hearing the EWQL Gold XP library, go to the music section of my website and listen to the Action/Adventure and Thriller/Horror Themes.

They were created in Nuendo 3.2 and the reverb is from a TC Powercore PCI Express. Please keep in mind that these samples are encoded at 192kps but they should give you an idea of whether or not this library will work for you.

Mike Plas - Composer Producer Los Angeles
Old 12th March 2008
  #16
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Lunatique's Avatar
I know you already decided, but you really should check out a few other options as well, such as these:

Kirk Hunter Studios - Products
SONiVOX - Sound that Rocks - Complete Symphonic Collection

Kirk Hunter's libraries are amazing bangs for the buck--with quality that rival products that cost twice as much or more.

The Sonivox strings are highly respected by composers working with sample libraries. Some people mix and match--for example, have Sonivox strings, ProjectSam Brass and Truestrike, Westgate for winds..etc.
Old 18th March 2008
  #17
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composer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by narco View Post
for film scoring work, for a small budget film (with a bigger budget look), which would you recommend more out of:


Eastwest / Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra Platinum Edition

or

Vienna Instruments Vienna Instruments II Special Edition Sample Library?

and why?

I am mostly interested in ease of use, as I believe both will provide good sample quality.

The East West offering is their top of the line product, the Vienna offering is their bottom of the line (for a full orchestral sample set). The flagship Vienna version is too pricey for me.

I am using Logic.

Thanks alot for your help

narco

ps. If anyone is selling...
I am also using Logic (recently from Nuendo) and to be honest, I have the EWQLSO Plat on PC, but have trouble getting any of their libraries to work on an intel mac and Logic 8. It simply DOES NOT show up as a AU instrument - it works as stand alone only.

I have tried:
• D/L the Content.plist
• Made sure it was registered
• Tried in Kontakt 2.2 Player (won't load)
• Kontakt 3 Sampler (full), error is SAMPLES NOT REGISTERED


I am leading toward the SE myself, especially since 1) With great reverb, you can get the BIG sound and 2) There is nothing close to the Legato tools like in SE, and 3) It seems EWQLSO is very old. They updated the player but not the library in a long time and Giga 4 is also due out soon and for MAC too.
Old 19th March 2008
  #18
AKA
Gear interested
 

For LAP8 on an intel Mac, you would need the latest Kontakt player (2.4 i AFAIK).

Good luck.
Old 11th December 2008
  #19
Lives for gear
help!

i too am on the fence between EW platinum and vienna SE bundle (inlcudes SE and SE+)...

on the vienna site appasionata strings are listed in the bundle. does anyone know if this is the full appasionata library or just some samples, and one would still have to purchase appasionata I and II?

have not worked with either EW or Vienna, so learning curve wise which is easier? from comments here i gather EW sounds good right OTB with little tweaking, but we have Bricasti, 480L, TC5000 and others so no problem in that respect if Vienna needs a little verb.

the time it would take to learn the product is a factor though...

so between these two, if you had start out with one which would it be? thank you very much for your time.

PT HD, Mac Intel dual core.
Old 11th December 2008
  #20
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reid's Avatar
 

The EastWest stuff is now only available with their own PLAY front end - this has proven to be near impossible for some users to get to work whilst others have had success. There's a lot of discussion on composer / MT forums about whether the interface is workable or just a bag of bolts; I'd strongly advise doing as much research as possible about their software before spending any cash. That said, the sounds are fantastic - it can just be hell getting them to work....

There are a few threads about this on GS which you can find with a search - here's an ongoing thread at SOS - PLAY discussion

I've been using the VSL stuff for a few years now and found their 'Vienna Instrument' interface to be pretty much fault free - easy learning curve and a lot of flexibility. If you go to their forum or customer service I'm sure you'll get quick answers to any questions; they're usually very responsive to queries.
Old 11th December 2008
  #21
Lives for gear
i'm leaning toward the Vienna SE bundle, specially after your comment about the PLAY engine, and Vienna Instrument having an easy learnig curve, but will keep reading and look into the thread you mentioned above. thank you very much reid.

update: wow... after reading the SOS thread i doubt seriously i'll be going for EW. thank you for the heads up. i'm on a mac and it seems there are fewer issues with macs, but being in the middle of a major label project i simply can't afford a nightmarish scenario like that...
Old 12th December 2008
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raal View Post
i'm leaning toward the Vienna SE bundle, specially after your comment about the PLAY engine, and Vienna Instrument having an easy learnig curve, but will keep reading and look into the thread you mentioned above. thank you very much reid.

update: wow... after reading the SOS thread i doubt seriously i'll be going for EW. thank you for the heads up. i'm on a mac and it seems there are fewer issues with macs, but being in the middle of a major label project i simply can't afford a nightmarish scenario like that...
I'm about to pull the trigger on a vienna instruments library...

but am completely split between special edition, and chamber strings. I know spec. edition is a bit of everything, but without playing with it in my own music, it's impossible to know if it will work for my style as well as chamber.

I feel like if I buy chamber, I'll miss out on the "bigger" string section sounds for sweeping moments, but I might also in turn miss out on all of those close, warm articulate moments of "chamber strings" if I go with SE.

Hmm.

Trying to hold onto as much cash as possible these days, so "both" is not an option.

I'm on a PPC G5.
Old 12th December 2008
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astronmr20 View Post
I'm about to pull the trigger on a vienna instruments library...

but am completely split between special edition, and chamber strings. I know spec. edition is a bit of everything, but without playing with it in my own music, it's impossible to know if it will work for my style as well as chamber.

I feel like if I buy chamber, I'll miss out on the "bigger" string section sounds for sweeping moments, but I might also in turn miss out on all of those close, warm articulate moments of "chamber strings" if I go with SE.

Hmm.

Trying to hold onto as much cash as possible these days, so "both" is not an option.

I'm on a PPC G5.
the demos they have on the website can probably give you a general idea of what to expect from each package. at least i hope so, as that's what i went by + other peoples' recommendations. i think the special edition bundle with extended libraries is a good place to start and should cover a pretty wide range of things. after that i'd probably go for the full apassionata libraries... just a gut feeling. i'll find out soon enough though, soon as i get a quote for the preinstalled glyph i think i'm going for it.
Old 12th December 2008
  #24
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gsilbers's Avatar
 

u should look at the sonic implants strings. i think they ar ebetter than the others.
but still the eastwest is better sounding than vienna. the vienna legatos sound too ear scrathing to me . its hard to have a long melody w vienna and make it sound nice. better than stock stuff but not as good as SI and EW. thats the reason vienna came up with the appasionata strings.

but i do like the stacc and short strings in vienna.

i think there are more threads on this in

Welcome to your web site composer forum.
Old 26th December 2008
  #25
Lives for gear
update: went for VSL SE Bundle + extended libraries. just starting to experiment with it (it's amazing) but i have to leave tomorrow and then on january for a month. bummer. thank you all for your comments.
Old 26th December 2008
  #26
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The MPCist's Avatar
 

I'd go for the EW Platinum Pro XP and layer that with some real string players. The EW seems to 'mix' better into contemporary music and adding some live violins help top that off.
Old 26th December 2008
  #27
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feck's Avatar
I have used both for a while now, and these are my observations -

Vienna sounds great for unprocessed, organic raw samples. I am not a fan at all of their interface - the learning curve is steep, it is not conducive in my opinion to playing, it is more so to programming. I keep having problems with the timing on quantization - the samples almost unilaterally have their main attack well later than the beginning of the note, and even with significant adjusting I can't get most of the articulations to get anywhere near sounding on time when quantized, and the cross-fading is a PITA to try and get decays/attacks to sound natural. However, the samples are super-consistent, and sound really great.

EWQSL Platinum on the other hand plays great right away, the keyswitches are easy as hell to get around, and they sound processed right out of the box. However, I can't get around the feeling that with this library I am merely playing someone else's performance - unless I find an articulation that is exactly what I am looking for, I have to compromise, which with all of the flexibility of Vienna isn't an issue.

Bottom line is - if you are working with pop/rock/non-classical stuff, EWQL Symphonic is the way to go unless you want to spend a lot of time adjusting paramaters and buying expansion packs. If you really want super-tight control over every aspect, Vienna is the way to go. Just be ready to put in your time.
Quote
1
Old 27th December 2008
  #28
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reid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
I have used both for a while now, and these are my observations -

Vienna sounds great for unprocessed, organic raw samples. I am not a fan at all of their interface - the learning curve is steep, it is not conducive in my opinion to playing, it is more so to programming. I keep having problems with the timing on quantization - the samples almost unilaterally have their main attack well later than the beginning of the note, and even with significant adjusting I can't get most of the articulations to get anywhere near sounding on time when quantized, and the cross-fading is a PITA to try and get decays/attacks to sound natural. However, the samples are super-consistent, and sound really great.

EWQSL Platinum on the other hand plays great right away, the keyswitches are easy as hell to get around, and they sound processed right out of the box. However, I can't get around the feeling that with this library I am merely playing someone else's performance - unless I find an articulation that is exactly what I am looking for, I have to compromise, which with all of the flexibility of Vienna isn't an issue.

Bottom line is - if you are working with pop/rock/non-classical stuff, EWQL Symphonic is the way to go unless you want to spend a lot of time adjusting paramaters and buying expansion packs. If you really want super-tight control over every aspect, Vienna is the way to go. Just be ready to put in your time.
Strange how everyone's experience differs with the same product.

Feck, were you using the new Vienna Instruments interface, or the old Performance Tool software? I found the Performance Tool to be the most unintuitive piece of crap ever released for music, but the Vienna Instruments interface (which now standard across the entire Vienna range) is the complete opposite - easy to learn, quick to implement and after a day or so, second nature to use whilst composing. If you can turn a mod wheel and press a keyswitch, then the VI interface is a piece of piss to use.

I'm interested to find out why you're having to quantise your playing when using Vienna - to my mind that goes against the nature of trying to capture a 'human' performance, with all the nuance of timing and expression demanded by orchestral music, particularly when it comes to articulations; by their very nature each articulation is phrased a certain way, so it's down to pure luck hoping for quantise to place them with the correct timing - I find that kind of thing has to be done purely by hand and ear.

I find it hard to get too excited with the EW libs - you're locked into that 'big' movie sound and I found the entire package to be a lot less flexible than Vienna. Still - horses for courses I suppose.
Old 30th December 2008
  #29
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilbers View Post
u should look at the sonic implants strings. i think they ar ebetter than the others.
but still the eastwest is better sounding than vienna. the vienna legatos sound too ear scrathing to me . its hard to have a long melody w vienna and make it sound nice. better than stock stuff but not as good as SI and EW. thats the reason vienna came up with the appasionata strings.

but i do like the stacc and short strings in vienna.

i think there are more threads on this in

Welcome to your web site composer forum.
Listened to the demos... VERY impressed with the legato of the full strings. Legato is hard to get right!
Old 27th January 2009
  #30
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by reid View Post
The EastWest stuff is now only available with their own PLAY front end - this has proven to be near impossible for some users to get to work whilst others have had success. There's a lot of discussion on composer / MT forums about whether the interface is workable or just a bag of bolts; I'd strongly advise doing as much research as possible about their software before spending any cash. That said, the sounds are fantastic - it can just be hell getting them to work....

There are a few threads about this on GS which you can find with a search - here's an ongoing thread at SOS - PLAY discussion

I've been using the VSL stuff for a few years now and found their 'Vienna Instrument' interface to be pretty much fault free - easy learning curve and a lot of flexibility. If you go to their forum or customer service I'm sure you'll get quick answers to any questions; they're usually very responsive to queries.
Why didn't I find this thread BEFORE I pulled the trigger on EWQLSO Silver...

Based solely on price, glowing reviews, and sample MP3s, I ordered Silver. Installed it, and was really happy with the sounds. But when I tried to load more than three or four instruments, it would crash and ruin the project. Additionally, when rendering, it would have errors ( like missed notes, notes not completing, random pitch bends ). Sweetwater won't accept a return, EW won't authorize a license transfer...

The problem isn't my PC, I just built it this month. Q6600, 4GB RAM, XP optimized for audio, Presonus Firestudio Project ASIO drivers, two 7200RPM HDD.

So I just paid $320 ( library + ilok ) for software that a) you can't try before you buy, b) doesn't work, and c) is unreturnable/unresellable. Am I wrong to feel scammed?
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