Boot Camp

[jon2911]

All right, hasn't seemed to be much interest in this, or if someone else has tested this I've missed it. Finally got my new Macbook, so here goes...

Before the "why would you run XP" flames come let me just say that OS X is winning me over already, but a few programs aren't UB yet. Or UB would cost money, like Live 5. Not to mention the plug-ins. I'd install XP just to run Rebirth anyway. Basically, I'm just doing it because I can. So there

So far, I'm amazed. It just works, and Apple's touch is all over it. Adding partitions was a breeze (much easier than in Windows).

I chose:
1. OS X on an 80GB partition
2. Windows on a 80GB NTFS partition

Boot Camp automatically created a driver CD, then asked for the XP install disk. That was it. Booted into XP, put in the driver CD, and everything was done, automatically.

If you've ever done a clean XP install, then you know why I'm so excited. On a PC there are so many options for every component, it just can't be done this way. But Apple knows exactly what chipset, bluetooth, wifi is in every single Macbook, and can create a seamless driver install like that (there's the "controlled environment" in action).

Here's why I'm even more amazed: everything works in XP! The CD eject key, the screen brightness and volume buttons, i-sight, two fingers on the trackpad for r-click, Apple key becomes Window key, everything for power management works, even hibernate.

Needless to say, I'm really surprised. I thought there would be things left out or not working, that it would be for running XP in a pinch, but not for anything serious like music. Live and Reason run flawlessly, so does PT. Running FAT32 would probably cause some issues, but just choose NTFS and you're fine.

The bottom line: XP runs better on my Macbook than any PC I've ever owned. Hard to explain, but it just feels better. Apple put a LOT of time into making it work this well, and we're still talking about the beta version. It's like they said "we'll show everyoe what Windows should be like". I guess they really don't do anything halfway, even on a Microsoft OS. Brilliant.


Next I want to run some tests. Any ideas would be appreciated, I know several standardized tests for PT, but not the others.

Programs I'm running now:
Reason 3.0.4 (OS X)
Reason 3.0.3 (XP)
Pro Tools 7.1.1 (OS X)
Pro Tools 7.1cs10 (XP)
Ableton Live 6.01 (XP and OS X)
- this is a Lite version, but should be able to test in Demo mode

[Roger Starr]

Sounds good. I personally think that Apple machines are the coolest and one of the best to get in the market currently. Actually, having the option of running OSX and XP or Vista on the same machine is just fantastic. I prefer XP over OSX, but the next PC I buy will almost sure be a Mac...

Regards,

Roger

[redddog]

If I wanted to run say...Samplitude on my wife's new Macbook Pro, do I have to download Bootcamp and buy windows XP? Or do I just get Bootcamp and I'm good to go?

Bootcamp is free. Another copy of Windows XP isn't.

[xist]

You need a copy of Windows, of course. BootCamp is just a tool/utility that makes your intel mac able to install Windows with all the needed drivers, etc.

[statikcat]

And it is still in BETA too

[nikki-k]

...BTW...you could have skipped the downsides of FAT32 and gone with a Mac format (HFS+) and used MacDrive 6...doin great here on my Mac Pro.

My only gripe is the memory side. I have grown VERY fond of using all 4G RAM in OS X...very cool nonetheless!!!

[jon2911]

Originally Posted by nikki-k

...BTW...you could have skipped the downsides of FAT32 and gone with a Mac format (HFS+) and used MacDrive 6...doin great here on my Mac Pro.

EDIT: Thanks, think I'll do that. 3 partitions in Boot Camp takes some workarounds, and I couldn't make it fly. Hopefully by Leopard they'll let you do it easily. For now, I'll get MacDrive.

BTW, did you run that quad test for PT in XP? Did the results come out any different?

[nikki-k]

Ahhh! Yeah, would have had to have made the second Mac partition first, then Bootcamp'd I guess...

I have not tried comparing perofrmance of PT..I used LE initially, and now have an HD2 Accel in there. Was just happy it all worked! lol...

[Bryce]

I went with Parallels. Had to pay for it, but you don't need to reboot - you can run it right on the Mac desktop.

It rocks.

dB

[blastula]

i was under the impression that parallels won't cut it with more demanding aps, as in pro audio ......????

[kenn.michael]

Very true... Parallels works perfectly for everything BUT pro audio and video. You can run audio apps in Parallels, but the latency is very high.

[sardi]

Originally Posted by jon2911

Here's why I'm even more amazed: everything works in XP! The CD eject key, the screen brightness and volume buttons, i-sight, two fingers on the trackpad for r-click, Apple key becomes Window key, everything for power management works, even hibernate.

Funny, the brightness and volume keys dont work in XP on my new C2D MacBook.

I also installed bootcamp on a friends CD MacBook and noticed the same thing.

Bizzare. Wish it did. I adjust the volume key all the time and its annoying having to use that slider in the windows start bar (or wot eva its called..... LONG time Mac user).

Anyone else encountered this?

[jon2911]

Originally Posted by sardi

Funny, the brightness and volume keys dont work in XP on my new C2D MacBook.

I also installed bootcamp on a friends CD MacBook and noticed the same thing.

Bizzare. Wish it did. I adjust the volume key all the time and its annoying having to use that slider in the windows start bar (or wot eva its called..... LONG time Mac user).

Anyone else encountered this?

Works just fine for me, but make sure you use FN+F5 or whatever for the volume. You can't just use the F-keys alone like in OS X. FWIW, it was the same way in Windows on my Dell, so I'm used to it.


Nikki,
I just found a post from Shane on the DUC that makes me scared of Macdrive. Have you had any problems?

Attention Quaders, I just realized that many of us use Mac Drive by Mediafour. This app is really hit and miss with the Quad and I use it as little as possible and delete it if I'm not going to use it for awhile. It has done some funky things to the Quad. It has even messed up a few drives and partitons of mine recently. If you are having problems with PT 7.3 make sure you dont have Mac Drive installed at all. This may be something to try since PT 7.3 now supports HFS drives. Give it a shot and report back.

Shane

[C.Lambrechts]

just posted this on another thread but I'll add some specifics here :

Running a HD6 Accel system with D control on a Mac Pro 2.66.

Installed PT 7.3 on both OSX and XP / bootcamp.

I did do some performance testing, things like opening the same sessions and looking for swiftness, response issues etc etc ...

As far as I can tell they both are equally stable and performant. To give you and idea ... I could open up something like 644 7-band instances of EQ3 under XP and still press playback (although I could hardly move the mouse anymore but that's another issue ... same under OSX if you load the CPU loke that fwiw) ... or something like that ... I can't remember the exact number of plugins but it was ridiculous. FWIW ... I could open up EXACTLY the same number of the same plugin under OS X.

I know ... silly useless test but nevertheless telling me that CPU wise XP and OSX handle things equally well.

Now I haven't really 'worked' under XP .... I kinda tend to open it up for fun more then anything else but interesting nevertheless to see similar performance for both OS's on the same machine ....


What can I say ... I like OSX better so I'll stick to that for now. But it is comforting to know that I 'could' go XP and have exactly the same performance ... especially response etc from the controller.

[jon2911]

Thanks so much Chris

[nikki-k]

Hmmm..had not seen that post from Shane...will have to check it out.

I am a recent OS X convert, and the only real reason is memory- I love my RAM for virtual insturments, and XP just falls short of what OS X can do. Even with various "tricks," XP has a few issues I do not care to deal with, and since using OS X (since the Mac Pro came out, as far as everyday use is concerned), I have adjusted and have even grown used to using (gasp) The Finder. (ugh) (side note- I really wish Path Finder wa sup to snuff- I would then be a total OS X convert I tink!)

Back on topic...
I have not had any issues so far with Mac Drive and PT 7.3. I have not used it extensively either to. I know others doing what I am doing, and MacDrive has been cool with them as well. Gonna check that thread to see what others are saying...

[theblotted]

i tried out MacDrive on my MacPro 3GHz. i used to point my OSX iTunes library to the XP's iTunes, so both can share same library without making duplicate.

after the fact, i came back to iTunes in OSX and... many of my songs are either missing (exclamation mark) or not pointed properly in OSX anymore.

a simple repairing permissions and repair disk cured that.. but not sure when it will happen again. or why.

[blastula]

does anyone know from experience whether one can use boot camp on a drive that's already got a few hfs+ partitions (4 or 5)? And if so, is there any way of knowing where on the drive Bootcamp will write the new partition to?

I'm hoping that with MediaFour's MacDrive I can work like before. I keep 2 identical internal drives each with a record partition, a system/aps/docs partition and a big music file storage partition.....Only now I'd like to add a Windows OS and aps partition

seems almost possible...almost..

[blastula]

Originally Posted by blastula

does anyone know from experience whether one can use boot camp on a drive that's already got a few hfs+ partitions (4 or 5)? And if so, is there any way of knowing where on the drive Bootcamp will write the new partition to?
seems almost possible...almost..

looks like i just answered my own question. see below:

from Apple tech article:

Boot Camp Beta will not run on Macs with hard drives that have been partitioned into two or more volumes using a disk partitioning utility other than Boot Camp Beta (for example, if the disk had been partitioned with Disk Utility). It requires an Intel-based Mac with a single partition, Mac OS X 10.4.6 or later, and the latest available firmware.

[Blazinghammer]

Originally Posted by xist

You need a copy of Windows, of course. BootCamp is just a tool/utility that makes your intel mac able to install Windows with all the needed drivers, etc.

You need the full XP disk, not upgrade.

John

[2CRUNK]

hmmm

i dont suppose you can install windows 98 first on it then upgrade to xp... i was cheap when i bought xp all those years ago and only got the upgrade

[MT Groove]

Originally Posted by 2CRUNK

hmmm

i dont suppose you can install windows 98 first on it then upgrade to xp... i was cheap when i bought xp all those years ago and only got the upgrade

You will need a complete installation of Windows XP with Service Pack 2. You can't even install XP with service Pack 1 and update later.

[illynoise]

I second the notion that XP runs better on the mac. My iMac runs circles around my solidly built P4 3ghz machine.

Bootcamp runs great on it, except that I have to turn off airport when using Cubase or any audio app.

I can't wait till the 8 core machines so I can replace my G5 and my P4!!!

[d.dot]

I installed bootcamp and protools 7.1 on my macbook pro. I'm having midi issues. Midi playback will drop out after about a bar. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there a fix?

Thanks

[d.dot]

Originally Posted by d.dot

I installed bootcamp and protools 7.1 on my macbook pro. I'm having midi issues. Midi playback will drop out after about a bar. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there a fix?

Thanks

Update in case anyone cares. After doing a little of digging I came accross this. I installed the microsoft dual processor patch. This fixed exerything, the stuttering screen, midi play back, etc. The link can be found here:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/896256
XP is running PT great now.

[Krank]

Do any of you know if the frequent restarts from OSX to XP will wear a machine out faster? A Macbook in my case.

[DrDeltaM]

Originally Posted by MT Groove

You will need a complete installation of Windows XP with Service Pack 2. You can't even install XP with service Pack 1 and update later.

How you mean? You need an installation disc that includes SP2? You can't upgrade to SP2 via downloads?

[d.dot]

Originally Posted by DrDeltaM

How you mean? You need an installation disc that includes SP2? You can't upgrade to SP2 via downloads?

Well, I actually did, after several days and several failed attempts, install XP without SP2. (I'm obsessive like that). I'll spare you the technical details. However in the end it was all an exercise in futility. Even if you do get as far as I did you still won't be able to install SP2 or the MAC drivers. ( I actually did find a bootleg way to install the mac drivers.) In the end I paid Mr. Gates my $150. My legit copy of XP with SP2 came in the mail a few days later. You can't find XP in the stores, they only stock Vista now. The re-install went smoothly. Do yourself a favor and make sure you install the Microsoft dual processor hot fix also. The hot fix seemed to solve all my Pro Tools and audio related problems that occurred after the install. XP runs better on my Macbook Pro than it did on my HP laptop. To answer your question, yes, you will need an install that contains SP2. The upgrade WILL NOT work.

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by Krank

Do any of you know if the frequent restarts from OSX to XP will wear a machine out faster? A Macbook in my case.

i've restarted my Powerbook for years quite a bit, and still works like a charm. hard to give a scientific answer tho.

[Igotsoul4u]

Originally Posted by Bryce

I went with Parallels. Had to pay for it, but you don't need to reboot - you can run it right on the Mac desktop.

It rocks.

dB

also really dig parallels. Works well and you can run OSX at the same time as windows. Very easy and painless setup even for a guy that knows nothing of windows.