Dolby/DTS encoding

[Neveboy]

Hey Slutz,

Anyone tell me of some surround encoders for use stand alone or plug-in? (Mac OSx PT HD and LE if possible)

I know of the Digi plug and Soundcode but not looking to spend that much just yet !! If possible !!!

Any other options under $500/600??

If I'm mainly encoding for radio broadcast, cd and dvd audio, am I better off with Dolby or DTS?

Soundcode works for PT HD and LE which is a plus considering I've a laptop and would rather not take up studio time encoding, but the Digi plug doesn't work with LE.

The Digi Plug works for audio cd and FM but Soundcode wont do 44.1 16 bit cd as far as I can tell.

Anyone??

[minister]

hi,

radio broadcast? sorry, just asking, i only do occasional stereo radio spots. are you talking surround radio?

cd? by definition, that is stereo redbook 16/44.1 ... what good would a Dolby or DTS plug do you?

DVD i can understand....

DIGI plug? they don't make a surround encoding plug.

to simply make and AC3 file, you can use APPLE's compressor which now has the A.Pack rolled into it. however, you can only get it bundled with DVD Studio Pro -- but then you can burn surround DVD's. it does not plug-into PT, but is stand alone. and, AC3 is AC3, so the audio quality is there.

The Neyrinck plugs (Soundcode) are excellent. RTAS and AS in PT, allow you to audition all the various downmixes and DRC situations...and let you play the AC3 or DTS back into the session to watch in time with the video. well worth the money, but as you found out, about $1000....

http://www.neyrinck.com/Pages/products.html

MinnetonkaAudio Software makes some good plugs too.

http://www.minnetonkaaudio.com/

for down mixing and LtRt, you can also use the Dolby Surround Tools plug-in...
http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?...00&itemid=1042

[Neveboy]

[QUOTE=minister;986409]hi,

radio broadcast? sorry, just asking, i only do occasional stereo radio spots. are you talking surround radio?



I know I know, this is a dance gig I recorded and they have asked me to mix it in surround for FM broadcast.

I was a bit miffed by the suggestion as my only experience with surround encoding is DVD, like you mention, but apparently it can be done, and even if it can't, I'm being payed to deliver so deliver i will !!

cd? by definition, that is stereo redbook 16/44.1 ... what good would a Dolby or DTS plug do you?



True, apologies, it was late at night !

DVD i can understand....

DIGI plug? they don't make a surround encoding plug.

Sorry, I meant the Dolby plug as opposed to the Soundcode.



Thanks for the pointers

[minister]

as to DTS, it does sound better as the data rate is not as low...but there is a trade-off. sometimes you have reduce the data rate of the video to accomodate the DTS 754 or 1509. and, fewer people think to even use it thinking that Dolby is standard. also, you have to have at least on Dolby stream in the DVD, you can't do DTS only. but the Dolby could be an AC3 of the stereo.

oh, sorry, just saw your replies embedded in my quote....

never heard of surround FM broadcast...then again, i don't know a ton about radio...so, it is very possible that they do it now.

let me know if you have any other questions.

[Neveboy]

Originally Posted by minister

as to DTS, it does sound better as the data rate is not as low...but there is a trade-off. sometimes you have reduce the data rate of the video to accomodate the DTS 754 or 1509. and, fewer people think to even use it thinking that Dolby is standard. also, you have to have at least on Dolby stream in the DVD, you can't do DTS only. but the Dolby could be an AC3 of the stereo.

oh, sorry, just saw your replies embedded in my quote....

never heard of surround FM broadcast...then again, i don't know a ton about radio...so, it is very possible that they do it now.

let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks very much, very appreciated.

So you think Dolby is the way to go? Seem as you have to have a Dolby stream in there anyway !?

Yes apparently it can be done via FM but lets face, 1. Whos going to notice/care unless its plugged heavily in advance and 2. Who the heck, that has a tuner plugged up to their Pro Logic, would think of putting it into "Surround" mode anyway if they knew nothing about it !!

Its an adventerous experiment and one I will be very curious to watch, or should I say listen !!

Its going out all over Europe via the EBU

[minister]

i am finishing a surround concert DVD now... the director decided he did not want to sacrifice the data rate of the picture by including DTS as well. at one point we thought of Dolby Stereo AC3 and 5.1 DTS...but lets face it, 10% of the population knows what DTS is. so we are going Dolby all the way. and it sounds good.

for DTS, i use Neyrinck. for Dolby, for the moment, i am using Compressor...but will get the Soundcode.

As far as encoding PL II up until this month there was only the Dolby Hardware option...Minnetonka Audio just came out with a Dolby PL II plug for PT.

[Neveboy]

Originally Posted by minister

i am finishing a surround concert DVD now... the director decided he did not want to sacrifice the data rate of the picture by including DTS as well. at one point we thought of Dolby Stereo AC3 and 5.1 DTS...but lets face it, 10% of the population knows what DTS is. so we are going Dolby all the way. and it sounds good.

for DTS, i use Neyrinck. for Dolby, for the moment, i am using Compressor...but will get the Soundcode.

As far as encoding PL II up until this month there was only the Dolby Hardware option...Minnetonka Audio just came out with a Dolby PL II plug for PT.

I have the demo for Soundcode so I'm thinking go with what I kno !

I always thought PLII was just a "Toy" included in the receivers to simulate something into the rear channels !??!

I looked at the Minnetonka Audio page last night and thats what confused me as they offer a "Surcode CD-DTS surround software encoder" which I thought might suit this application !?

I also notice they offer:

SurCode for Stereo Dolby Digital (software encoder) This is just for Dolby stereo right?
SurCode for Dolby Digital V2 (surround software encoder) This is for 5.1/6.1 right
SurCode for Dolby Pro Logic II for Windows (surround software encoder) ?!
SurCode for Dolby Pro Logic II for Mac (surround software encoder)?!

Whats the difference otherwise?!

Thanks again for your help.

Been putting off getting into surround for some time now and this is the perfect excuse, plus I have recently listened to Pink Floyds Dark side of the moon that was remixed into 5.1

Mainly, I want to get into mixing high res (96k 24Bit) dvd audio versions of albums I work on.

I record at 96k 24 bit anyway using PT 7

[minister]

Originally Posted by Neveboy

I always thought PLII was just a "Toy" included in the receivers to simulate something into the rear channels !??!

PLII is how most consumers listen to DVD's and TV...

Originally Posted by Neveboy

SurCode for Stereo Dolby Digital (software encoder) This is just for Dolby stereo right?

correct. AC3 creation for Stereo and LtRt mixes.

Originally Posted by Neveboy

SurCode for Dolby Digital V2 (surround software encoder) This is for 5.1/6.1 right

correct.

Originally Posted by Neveboy

SurCode for Dolby Pro Logic II for Windows (surround software encoder) ?!
SurCode for Dolby Pro Logic II for Mac (surround software encoder)?!

Dolby Digital (5.1) is different than PL II. Dolby Digital is discreet; PL II is matrixed.

Originally Posted by Neveboy

Mainly, I want to get into mixing high res (96k 24Bit) dvd audio versions of albums I work on.

for DVD-A look at Disk Welder Bronze. otherwise...for DVD-V you are taking up too much bandwidth...and you are restriced with DVD-V with how data rate the audio can take up.

[Will]

2nd disc welder. the platinum version also converts your hi res audio to DTS (I think) so that it can be played on normal dvd players, lower quality.

I think they are only available for PC though, unless things have changed since last time I looked.

[minister]

Originally Posted by Will

I think they are only available for PC though, unless things have changed since last time I looked.

Bronze is Mac.

[Will]

cool, I'll have to get a copy

[Neveboy]

Okay, heres where I'm at.

Got compressor and can now encode files as AC3 files (Dolby 5.1 or Dolby 2)

Ordered Disc Welder (:( No download so gotta wait by the mail box)

Now, I kinda figured the encoding part but where I'm still running into trouble is getting my head around the authoring process.

First and foremost, I have to deliver a Dolby 2 mix of a session, but as a stereo .WAV file.

Am I totally wrong with my assumtion that this is possible and to back myself even further into a corner, is it also possible to burn a stereo .wav file with Dolby 5.1 embedded in it?

Excuse the ignorance but I'm eager to get this right and the web is full of right and wrong answers when it comes to surround in general !!

How so many have it wrong is beyond me !! So i'll make no assumptions if you don't mind.

As mentioned, the purpose of this format delivery (Dolby 2) is so that an attempt can be made to broadcast the concert I am encoding over FM, if alarm bells are ringing having read that, please only post a response if you really really know what you are talking about !!

If i have an AC3 file, how then can I encode it for delivery as a .wav?

Finally, my future intentions are to burn DVD Audio discs and this is where Discwelder comes into play, right ?

I'm presuming that this is the missing link in my needs wanting an AC3 Dolby 5.1 file to play in a dvd player as a dvd audio disc?!

Does Discwelder also give me the option to add a slide show?

Anyone care to point me in the right direction for a bit of education regarding all this ??

Thanks very much, especially given that most surround engineers spend so much more time finishing mixes as opossed to us mere 2 channel understudies !!



Your time is precious and I appreciate it

[Geert van den Berg]

There's no such thing as an AC3 file encoded as WAV.

AC3 is compressed data format originally develloped for cinema and later ported over to various consumer formats. It doesn't always need to be 5.1 either, since the AC3 is just the compression scheme. If there's no 5.1 mix, a stereo or a Dolby surround mix, it will still be encoded as an AC3 if it were to be authored on a DVD, unless you'd use DTS.

As you know, a WAV file is an uncompressed PCM file.

Ask your client for detailed delivery requirements...

What could be meant by your client is that they want either a regular stereo version of your mix or a Dolby Surround (=Dolby Stereo = the professional format as used in the cinema minus the SR encoding) encoded mix, which is an analogue format develloped to encode one surround channel into a 2 channel mix. A decoder extracts the surround information from these 2 tracks via some phase tricks. Offcourse this format can also be recorded or encoded digital nowadays, but it's still the same thing. This format can also easily be broadcasted. Mind you this is not 5.1. You can also make a Dolby Surround mix from your 5.1 mix with compressor and encode this as a WAV file. (no data compression will come into play while doing this). Offcourse some things gets lost when going from 5.1 to Dolby Surround or stereo, the LFE, is never included in these downmixes.

Another thing your client could mean is that you'd just have to deliver him a printmaster containing 6 discrete WAV's for the 5.1 mix and then 2 additional WAV files containing Dolby Stereo/Surround, this is very common for authoring DVD's or as a pre-master for a trailer/feature.

It could even be that you won't even have to deliver an AC3 file and that the encoding will take place at the DVD authoring studio.

Look on the Dolby website for further explanations. They've got PDF's for download about this subject.

[Neveboy]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

There's no such thing as an AC3 file encoded as WAV.

AC3 is compressed data format originally develloped for cinema and later ported over to various consumer formats. It doesn't always need to be 5.1 either, since the AC3 is just the compression scheme. If there's no 5.1 mix, a stereo or a Dolby surround mix, it will still be encoded as an AC3 if it were to be authored on a DVD, unless you'd use DTS.

As you know, a WAV file is an uncompressed PCM file.

Ask your client for detailed delivery requirements...

What could be meant by your client is that they want either a regular stereo version of your mix or a Dolby Surround (=Dolby Stereo = the professional format as used in the cinema minus the SR encoding) encoded mix, which is an analogue format develloped to encode one surround channel into a 2 channel mix. A decoder extracts the surround information from these 2 tracks via some phase tricks. Offcourse this format can also be recorded or encoded digital nowadays, but it's still the same thing. This format can also easily be broadcasted. Mind you this is not 5.1. You can also make a Dolby Surround mix from your 5.1 mix with compressor and encode this as a WAV file. (no data compression will come into play while doing this). Offcourse some things gets lost when going from 5.1 to Dolby Surround or stereo, the LFE, is never included in these downmixes.

Another thing your client could mean is that you'd just have to deliver him a printmaster containing 6 discrete WAV's for the 5.1 mix and then 2 additional WAV files containing Dolby Stereo/Surround, this is very common for authoring DVD's or as a pre-master for a trailer/feature.

It could even be that you won't even have to deliver an AC3 file and that the encoding will take place at the DVD authoring studio.

Look on the Dolby website for further explanations. They've got PDF's for download about this subject.

So let me get this right,

You can encode any Dolby format as AC3, in fact, this is just the carrier for which the audio is compressed to the disc.

"What could be meant by your client is that they want either a regular stereo version of your mix or a Dolby Surround (=Dolby Stereo = the professional format as used in the cinema minus the SR encoding) encoded mix, which is an analogue format develloped to encode one surround channel into a 2 channel mix. A decoder extracts the surround information from these 2 tracks via some phase tricks. Offcourse this format can also be recorded or encoded digital nowadays, but it's still the same thing. This format can also easily be broadcasted."

Yes thats it, so what do I need to encode this way. Compressor has the option Dolby Stereo Auto ?! This it?

"You can also make a Dolby Surround mix from your 5.1 mix with compressor and encode this as a WAV file.

Please, if you don't mind, take me through this as a procedure.

I'm sure of what I'm delivering as this is for broadcast only, the authoring to DVD is for other project I'd like to mix in 5.1 and burn as DVD-A.

[Neveboy]

I've managed to encode a Dolby Stereo Auto (as its described in compressor) as an AIFC file.

Compressor will only let me choose AIFF as the file format when preparing for batch processing.

Am I on the right lines here?

[minister]

...sorry been too busy to follow this or answer....

the delivery specs ask for an AC3 and a WAVE file?

they are 2 different things...Though there is such a thing as a Dolby Digital Wave file (but we should not confuse the issue here.)

is this stereo? if yes, then Dolby recommends that you create a 192kbps AC3 file. use the Dolby 2.0 setting and TURN OFF EVERYTHING IN THE PRE-PROCESSING TAB!!

a WAV file is PCM WAV file.

[Neveboy]

Originally Posted by minister

...sorry been too busy to follow this or answer....

the delivery specs ask for an AC3 and a WAVE file?

they are 2 different things...Though there is such a thing as a Dolby Digital Wave file (but we should not confuse the issue here.)

is this stereo? if yes, then Dolby recommends that you create a 192kbps AC3 file. use the Dolby 2.0 setting and TURN OFF EVERYTHING IN THE PRE-PROCESSING TAB!!

a WAV file is PCM WAV file.

Thanks for your time.

The delivery is for whatever file type is correct for surround broadcasting over FM.

Keeping in mind that it will probably need to be 16bit 44.1k.

Yes this is stereo and I've tried what you mention above, but Compressor will only allow me to encode at a minimum rate of 224kbps



Just to clarify, I have been talking about two diffrent things on this post,

1. How to encode Dolby Surround 2 for FM broadcasta and

2. How to encode and Author for DVD-A

[minister]

Originally Posted by Neveboy

The delivery is for whatever file type is correct for surround broadcasting over FM.

Keeping in mind that it will probably need to be 16bit 44.1k.

Yes this is stereo and I've tried what you mention above, but Compressor will only allow me to encode at a minimum rate of 224kbps

ok, first, i am confused. in sentence one you said surround FM. in three you said stereo.

are you sure that they don't mean LtRt (2 channel matrixed surround)? and not LoRo (straight stereo)?

192 is recommended for DVD-V of stereo material. i don't know what bitrate is for FM.

my suggestion is to get specific delivery specs from your client or the network or the post prod. supervisor.

as to 224...here is my picture:

[Neveboy]

Originally Posted by minister

ok, first, i am confused. in sentence one you said surround FM. in three you said stereo.

are you sure that they don't mean LtRt (2 channel matrixed surround)? and not LoRo (straight stereo)?

192 is recommended for DVD-V of stereo material. i don't know what bitrate is for FM.

my suggestion is to get specific delivery specs from your client or the network or the post prod. supervisor.

as to 224...here is my picture:

Truth be told, i dont think they know what they want.

All I know is that they want to broadcast in surround over FM TX which is possible.

From what i can gather, this is possible with Dolby II or SRS Circle.

I guess they are looking for LtRt so is this encoded as per your picture?

Sorry to be such a fool with this, but I am learning !!

[minister]

i know these things are really confusing the first time......

hopefully someone else can help you through the rest of this as i got a fly on a 2 jobs yet tonight and all day tomorrow...

but, i would venture to guess that they want LtRt.

Dolby Surround is another name for LtRt which is 2 channel matrixed surround that will unfold to LCRS. Dolby Digital is (or SR•D) is discrete 5.1. SR means both Surround and Spectral Recording which is the noise reduction scheme that replaced Dolby A.

in a Dolby Surround LtRt, the 2 is derived from the 6...or, more precsely, 6-->4-->2 which decodes to 4. for this, you need a way to encode an LtRt. The Dolby Surround Tools will do this quite nicely in Pro Tools.

i suggest asking you client or contact one of the broadcats networks where they will do this for delivery specs and find someone in your area who has done this and has the tools and farm it out to them and have them show you.

good luck. if you can wait until thu. or friday, i can help you then. but there are many other people on this boaard and elsewhere who can help you....

[Neveboy]

Originally Posted by minister

i know these things are really confusing the first time......

hopefully someone else can help you through the rest of this as i got a fly on a 2 jobs yet tonight and all day tomorrow...

but, i would venture to guess that they want LtRt.

Dolby Surround is another name for LtRt which is 2 channel matrixed surround that will unfold to LCRS. Dolby Digital is (or SR•D) is discrete 5.1. SR means both Surround and Spectral Recording which is the noise reduction scheme that replaced Dolby A.

in a Dolby Surround LtRt, the 2 is derived from the 6...or, more precsely, 6-->4-->2 which decodes to 4. for this, you need a way to encode an LtRt. The Dolby Surround Tools will do this quite nicely in Pro Tools.

i suggest asking you client or contact one of the broadcats networks where they will do this for delivery specs and find someone in your area who has done this and has the tools and farm it out to them and have them show you.

good luck. if you can wait until thu. or friday, i can help you then. but there are many other people on this boaard and elsewhere who can help you....

Thanks m8, I'm not under any pressure so I'll sit this one out.

Right, so I gotta encode to LtRt.

By mentioning Dolby Tools, does this mean Compressor wont encode this format?

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by Neveboy

By mentioning Dolby Tools, does this mean Compressor wont encode this format?

Compressor can create LtRt's!

I don't have access to our DVD set at this moment so I can't guide you through the process now, but I know it's possible.

The benefit of the Dolby Tools is that it's a realtime encoder and decoder so you can check on the fly what the decoding does and adjust your mix if something doesn't sound right (like a sound which is recorded MS for example, that won't work in Dolby Surround).

You're right about Compressor only encoding to AIFF and not WAV, I forgot about that, but after you have your AIFF you can convert this to WAV with PT.

And I'll repeat, confirm with your client what exactly the file format is that they want.

Offcourse for DVD-A you'll eventually end up with an AC3 file, but that doesn't seem logical to me for broadcasting. Keep in mind that a file converted to AC3 is data compressed. You can decode this file to a AIFF again, but that means you have lost audio quality.

I think you just want an LtRt encoded into a stereo AIFF, unless they're broadcasting AC3 files, which might be the norm for HD television, but over here there's no one broadcasting this yet. Again confirm with the client...

I can't really help you with DVD-A as I don't know the exact spec's but I am sure you can find those on the internet. If you know the spec's it's easy to fill in the parameters in Compressor.

[Neveboy]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

Compressor can create LtRt's!

I don't have access to our DVD set at this moment so I can't guide you through the process now, but I know it's possible.

The benefit of the Dolby Tools is that it's a realtime encoder and decoder so you can check on the fly what the decoding does and adjust your mix if something doesn't sound right (like a sound which is recorded MS for example, that won't work in Dolby Surround).

You're right about Compressor only encoding to AIFF and not WAV, I forgot about that, but after you have your AIFF you can convert this to WAV with PT.

And I'll repeat, confirm with your client what exactly the file format is that they want.

Offcourse for DVD-A you'll eventually end up with an AC3 file, but that doesn't seem logical to me for broadcasting. Keep in mind that a file converted to AC3 is data compressed. You can decode this file to a AIFF again, but that means you have lost audio quality.

I think you just want an LtRt encoded into a stereo AIFF, unless they're broadcasting AC3 files, which might be the norm for HD television, but over here there's no one broadcasting this yet. Again confirm with the client...

I can't really help you with DVD-A as I don't know the exact spec's but I am sure you can find those on the internet. If you know the spec's it's easy to fill in the parameters in Compressor.

Hey, Thanks, its all coming clear now.

I just wondered why I was being pointed to Dolby Tools when I have spoken only about having compressor.

The thing about the client is that they dont know what they want, they only know what they want to achieve !!

Yes I think its an LtRt Stereo AIFF file. They ain't TXing AC3 files for sure, this is FM !!

If anyone has compressor and fancys checklisting the settings for the above (LtRt), I'd sure appreciate it.

[minister]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

I can't really help you with DVD-A as I don't know the exact spec's but I am sure you can find those on the internet. If you know the spec's it's easy to fill in the parameters in Compressor.

with DVD-A, 5.1 Surround recordings can have sample rates of 96, 88.2, 48, or 44.1kHz. Bit depths can be 24-, 20-, or 16-bits. 5.1 Surround recordings with bit depths and sample rates of 24/96, 20/96, 24/88.2, or 20/88.2 require mandatory encoding to the MLP (Meridian Lossless Packing) file format. with all others, you can use PCM, AC3 or DTS.

The DVD-A specification allows for different tracks to have different formats. For instance, Track 1 could be 24/48 5.1 Surround, Track 2 could be 24/192 Stereo, and Track 3 could be 16/44.1 Stereo. The Spec currently does not allow two different soundfile formats on one track. That is, all soundfiles on a single track must have the same sample rate and bit depth.

as i said earlier to do it, you need something like Disc Welder Bronze for MAC.

Neveboy, if you have never made an LtRt, get some help, or be prepared to spend many extra hours reading the manual, figuring out the templates and listening to the various options. everybody has a first time (including me), but there is a lot to learn and a lot to listen for: it has to be LCRS, Stereo AND Mono compatible...and you often have to ride levels and listen for steering issues. there is no formula, only guidlines, but in the end, you have to use you ears.... and watch your levels, downmixing is suceptible to clipping, or 'clashing' as Dolby likes to call it.

[Neveboy]

Originally Posted by minister

with DVD-A, 5.1 Surround recordings can have sample rates of 96, 88.2, 48, or 44.1kHz. Bit depths can be 24-, 20-, or 16-bits. 5.1 Surround recordings with bit depths and sample rates of 24/96, 20/96, 24/88.2, or 20/88.2 require mandatory encoding to the MLP (Meridian Lossless Packing) file format. with all others, you can use PCM, AC3 or DTS.

The DVD-A specification allows for different tracks to have different formats. For instance, Track 1 could be 24/48 5.1 Surround, Track 2 could be 24/192 Stereo, and Track 3 could be 16/44.1 Stereo. The Spec currently does not allow two different soundfile formats on one track. That is, all soundfiles on a single track must have the same sample rate and bit depth.

as i said earlier to do it, you need something like Disc Welder Bronze for MAC.

Neveboy, if you have never made an LtRt, get some help, or be prepared to spend many extra hours reading the manual, figuring out the templates and listening to the various options. everybody has a first time (including me), but there is a lot to learn and a lot to listen for: it has to be LCRS, Stereo AND Mono compatible...and you often have to ride levels and listen for steering issues. there is no formula, only guidlines, but in the end, you have to use you ears.... and watch your levels, downmixing is suceptible to clipping, or 'clashing' as Dolby likes to call it.

Okay, this is an easy one to start with as its five channels (Dj output L and R, Audience L C R).

The thing Im not sure you understand is that this is for FM broadcast, not for DVD-A or anything DVD related.

This will simply be transmitted as a surround file and whoever cares to engage their encoder, will get whatever the encoder sucks off a tuner.

If it has to be LCRS, then I'm almost with you but still confused with one thing, Compressor will only allow me to export as an AC3 file. How then are we supposed to play this file out for transmission purposes ?

If in compressor I choose Dolby 2 as the audio format and AIFF for the file format, am I making a stereo AIFF file only or is the Dolby encoded in their also?

This configuration outputs what quicktime sees as a AIFC file

The end is near/nigh !!

Thanks again for your patience

Somebody write a frikin book !

[minister]

Originally Posted by Neveboy

Okay, this is an easy one to start with as its five channels (Dj output L and R, Audience L C R).

there you go... you got 5 - you can create and LFE by ceating a send to a lo-pass filtered (for music, i would recommend 80Hz) LFE bus of whatever material you think would be suitable. and yet, with music, the LFE is hardly used, so, use it with caution and make sure your oom is calibrated properly. and yet again, you may not fold it into the LtRt. so, don't go crazy with this...you may end up not doing it becasue the LtRt does not have an encoded LFE.

Originally Posted by Neveboy

The thing Im not sure you understand is that this is for FM broadcast, not for DVD-A or anything DVD related.

no, i understand completely. meneer van den Berg mentioned that he wasn't too familiar with DVD-A specs, so i obliged. ...and i was talking more generally.

not having having done surround radio, i cannot give you delivery specs. (but i have done a lot of other surround) this is why we are telling you to get specs from the client, and i suggested contacting an engineer at one of the FM networks. and, yes, i did read you say that you client doesn't know.

Originally Posted by Neveboy

If it has to be LCRS, then I'm almost with you but still confused with one thing, Compressor will only allow me to export as an AC3 file. How then are we supposed to play this file out for transmission purposes ?

the LtRt is a 2-channel (matrixed) file that is derived from the LCRLsRsLf--->LCRS-->LtRt conversion that happens with the Dolby Surrond plug. the resulting 2 channel file is what you would put into Compressor IF you need to deliver an AC3.

rather than continue to explain the basics of surround workflow and formats, how compressor works, etc..., i am going to urge you to find out from somebody what the FM surround delivery format is. presumably, if your client wants to do this, he or she is contact with a place where he will delievr your mix. have your client get you the answer from these people, or give you their contact. otherwise this academic discussion will be confusing and circular.

given an exact delivery format, we can be specific about how to tell you to get from where you are to there.

[Neveboy]

Originally Posted by minister

there you go... you got 5 - you can create and LFE by ceating a send to a lo-pass filtered (for music, i would recommend 80Hz) LFE bus of whatever material you think would be suitable. and yet, with music, the LFE is hardly used, so, use it with caution and make sure your oom is calibrated properly. and yet again, you may not fold it into the LtRt. so, don't go crazy with this...you may end up not doing it becasue the LtRt does not have an encoded LFE.



no, i understand completely. meneer van den Berg mentioned that he wasn't too familiar with DVD-A specs, so i obliged. ...and i was talking more generally.

not having having done surround radio, i cannot give you delivery specs. (but i have done a lot of other surround) this is why we are telling you to get specs from the client, and i suggested contacting an engineer at one of the FM networks. and, yes, i did read you say that you client doesn't know.




the LtRt is a 2-channel (matrixed) file that is derived from the LCRLsRsLf--->LCRS-->LtRt conversion that happens with the Dolby Surrond plug. the resulting 2 channel file is what you would put into Compressor IF you need to deliver an AC3.

rather than continue to explain the basics of surround workflow and formats, how compressor works, etc..., i am going to urge you to find out from somebody what the FM surround delivery format is. presumably, if your client wants to do this, he or she is contact with a place where he will delievr your mix. have your client get you the answer from these people, or give you their contact. otherwise this academic discussion will be confusing and circular.

given an exact delivery format, we can be specific about how to tell you to get from where you are to there.

Right, forget the Fm thing for the moment until I can get a definite answer so.



So......Authoring 96k 24 Bit Audio (5.1 as AC3) to a dvd without video.

I got myself a copy of DiscWelder in order to make DVD Audio discs but all DiscWelder will do is take five individual wavs or a stereo pair and author them to dvd for playback in (Most!) domestic dvd players.

Am I right in saying that Discwelder will take 5 wavs and mix them down to a stereo pair for playback on a dvd, NOT actually encode these five wavs as a surround mix?


You need to encode an AC3 file for Dolby Digital (I hear you say) , which I get how to do (with Compressor) but how then can I author this to a dvd?

Is DVD studio Pro the option here rather than DiscWelder (Bronze)? or is there any other alternative for Mac.

I really don't need/want the full Final Cut Studio bundle !!

Your response as always, greatly appreciated

[seriousfun]

Originally Posted by Neveboy

...

Somebody write a frikin book !

Tomlinson Holman did: 5.1 Surround Sound Up and Running.

Neural Surround is a technology that XM Radio will use to transmit 5.1 music on their satellite radio service. SRS with Circle Surround and Dolby Labs also offer surround radio technology.

[Neveboy]

Right, Homework done !!

With regard the Fm broadcast, forget Dolby Digital, the only thing that will work is good ol fashioned Dolby Surround (Remember those harware encoders you had not so long ago ).

"When a Dolby Surround soundtrack is produced, four channels of audio information—Left, Center, Right, and Mono surround—are matrix-encoded onto two audio tracks. These two tracks are then carried on stereo program sources such as videotapes and TV broadcasts into the home, where they can be decoded by Dolby Pro Logic® to recreate the original four-channel surround sound experience".

So, Dolby Surround tools is the Plug-In for the gig, although I have yet to find out what type of file this will output.

Sorry if you've been saying this all along, but like I said, the "Client" hasn't an "exact" idea of what they need, they just know it can be done!

************

Tonight, I successfully played a DVD-A Disc (All be it in some cheap japanese player) and was able to hear my surround mix via the 5 outputs it has at the rear (L,R,C,Ls,Rs,Sub).

How?

Using DiscWelder, I imported five .wavs and burnt a DVD+

The coaxial output just gave me a stereo stream and thats because I ain't got no Dolby Digital/DTS encoded on there, right? DVD-A wont transport these?

Then, using various Sony and Philips machines, I attempted to do the same but none of them would even so far as recognize the disc.

This leads me to believe that in reality, if I want to produce "Consumer friendly" audio DVDs, I gotta use authoring more common to the marketplace, such as AC3.

DVD-A is all well in good, but lets face it, only a handful of machines will recognise the format, and at that, a Dolby Digital AC3 is no good here, as DVD-A will only deliver good ol fashioned analog 5.1 via the rear outputs on the machine, right? It will however playback stereo files up to 24Bit 192Khz, as long as your machine will read DVD-A

So, in order to author a DVD, capable of playing Dolby Digital in most domestic machines, I need something such as DVD Studio Pro (Any suggestions for Mac alternatives most welcome ).

My Ac3 file will then sit comfortable at home on any domestic DVD with DTS or Dolby Digital outputing my Dolby Digital 5.1 mix out to the rear coxial output, right?

The "How to" I need to now learn about authoring this DVD, such as what video is displayed, I can deal with by myself, em er, I think, but I'll give it a good go.

No brain left

Thoughts and thanks?

[Neveboy]

Hey guys,

I got a copy of Final Cut Studio and have been playing with it over the last day or so.

I just thought you might like to know I managed to author a dolby 5.1 audio track with a slideshow alongside.

I even managed to set multiple audio streams !!

Sorry for what may have seemed like clueless questions but your repsonses helped a lot, even if I do now have a copy of discwelder bronze as a result !!

Not quite what i wanted in the first place but I'm sure it will be handy somewhere down the line.