Outboard gear vs. Plug-ins for effects?

[TCW]

Hi All,

Just wondering what your thoughts were on using outboard gear for effects at mixdown versus plug-ins.

Do you sacrifice quality/reaslism when using plug-ins instead of an outboard unit?

Or... do you sacrifice more in terms of audio integrity when running your track out of your computer, into a rack unit and back into your computer? (D-A-D conversions, etc)

Also, could you recommed a good but reasonable priced reverb and/or compression and/or EQ plug-in that would be a step up from Digital Performer plug-ins?

BTW, I use a MAC/DP4

Thanks!
TCW

[Geert van den Berg]

I'd say use as little processing as you can get away with.

I think Digital Performer lacks a good compressor plugin (though the Masterworks multiband is usuable), so you either need a good compressor plugin or good outboard compressor. As for a limiter plug you might want to try this one as audio unit, which is free http://www.yohng.com/w1limit.html Not as good as an L2, but certainly not bad, when not overused.

For both categories, plugin or outboard, there are so many options and just as there are options both can sound good or bad.

If you want to have a plugin compressor, I'd wait till the Sony Oxford compressor is released as audio unit, which will happen soon.

If you want hardware you might want to buy a pair of Distressors, which are very versatile IMHO, clean, or with some subtle distortion or opto-style compression. Or maybe the Tubetech multiband, which is also great, though only one flavour.

And the same goes for EQ's as well, but fortunately Digital Performer 4.5 has a great EQ, the Masterworks EQ, so I'd update your copy if you're still at v4. Another good EQ plug would be the Sony Oxford (also soon available as audio unit), but I think the MW EQ holds up to this one very well.

Offcourse it's not bad to have many flavours, but for most things I think it's better to get right at the source while recording, if it doesn't sound like the way you envision it you better change the mic position, or the mic or the pre.

Reverb. Either get Altiverb or buy a TC electronic M3000 or even better a 4000.

[TCW]

Thanks for the replies!

The music I record is rock (Coldplay, Live, U2, Radiohead, etc).

So, the effects at mixdown would be reverb for vocals, acoustic guitar, elec guit. Maybe some delay for the electric guitar. Compression for whatever. EQ for whatever.

I have a good outboard compressor (RNC), but I lack a decent outboard effects module for vocals, guitar. I'm trying to decide on a lexicon reverb/multieffects or a plug-in...which is why I'm curious as to the drwbacks of each and my options for the plug-ins.

If the Masterworks EQ is good, then I'll use that. SO for plug-ins that leaves Verb, Comp, Delay...and maybe some guitar effects like virbrato, tremolo, chorus...

[pan60]

with my limited mentality in regards to computers and having yet to hear a plug in i was happy with, ( mind you just what comes with D.P. ) i have opted to go out board.
i would also look at how upgrades and compatibility issues my effect you in the future as well.
but ah the trade off out board will will possibly need maintenance and for sure service from time to time.
but good out board will, ( if good quality ) will most like be worth some degree of monitory value in the future were as the plug in's will be worth bump-cuss.

[TCW]

Would I need any additional harware/software to use outboard effects on the Mac using DP 4.6?

As for plug-ins, how's the UAD-1 Project Pak?
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UAD1ProjectPak/

Thanks!
TCW

[Rednose]

for drums you need good outboard eq compression.
Bass too.
I've yet to find any plugin that does anything possitive for Bass.
ITB compressors work pretty good on vox though.

[CareerTech1]

just get 4 UAD-1's and a SBS or Magma expansion chassis

:-)

[TCW]

With the UAD-1 can you apply different effects to different tracks simultaneously?

If I bought a multi-effects module I would be stuck with one track at a time which might not be very flexible during mixdown.

Oh, and I don't need anything for drums or bass (I use a Bass Driver and compression while tracking bass, and the drums are drum programs/loops). It's all about the guitars and vocals.

Hmmm...

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by JuanPabloCuervo

i dream to have creamware scope for synths & mixing, and having sydec.be for like outboard digital channels strip, of api & ssl eq & aphex aural exiter
like a lunch box dbx900 aphex9000 or api

Maybe this sounds better in your dreams than in real life... Stop posting about gear which you don't have direct user experience with! tutt

There's a lot of info on the internet, people have nothing to gain by reading posts from someone rattling info picked up at some forum... I do not need to read the whole list copy/pasted into every thread. If you do so, at least post your source as well, then people can at least make up their mind if the info is correct and of any use to them.

I have no idea if you've read the PM I sent you, that's why I'll address you again on the forum. You've helped someone in another thread, so for now you're getting the benefit of the doubt.

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by TCW

If the Masterworks EQ is good, then I'll use that. SO for plug-ins that leaves Verb, Comp, Delay...and maybe some guitar effects like virbrato, tremolo, chorus...

Originally Posted by TCW

With the UAD-1 can you apply different effects to different tracks simultaneously?

If I bought a multi-effects module I would be stuck with one track at a time which might not be very flexible during mixdown.
.

I think the Masterworks EQ is good, but it doesn't do magic, but try for yourself. If it doesn't work, then you might want to ask yourself if the recorded source is good. And offcourse there is certain flavour gear that can add something to a sound, but why not try to avoid that fase and create a good sound at first.

It's true that sometimes outboard can be a pain to use in DAW sessions, you've got to take good care to set this up, using some sort of latency fixer to make sure everything stays in phase. And offcourse you can only apply it once, or you'll need to record it. Stay ITB sometimes can really simplify matters.

With the UAD you'll get access to a lot of good plugins, but maybe you'll be better of buying their flexi-pack. Try all the demo's and see for yourself which plugins are usefull to you. If still got DSP free on the card you can use it to load a plugin (to some extent). Look on the uaudio website for a chart. You can apply these plugs just as you would apply any MAS or Audio Unit plugin. Realtime on a track, or to process a track, and offcourse you can use 'freeze' too.

For tremelo/delay/phase/chorus fx, I'd say try the internal FX in DP. Sometimes you've got to combine them to get good results, but don't automatically pass up on them. Try this free chorus from Beta Bugs, Monsta Chorus, it makes interesting sounds as well. Pity not all their plugs are OS X/DP compatible.
http://www.betabugsaudio.com/plugs.php

I also like the PSP delay plugins.

[TCW]

Wow!

Great info. Thanks, Geert van den Berg!

TCW