Gearslutz.com
All Advertisers

Go Back   Gearslutz.com > The Forums > Music computers

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Will digital (motion picture) film have an impact on sound recording for film? Jules Post Production forum! 10 21st December 2006 03:31 PM
Rights and clearances - legaleze for a film score angopop So much gear, so little time! 4 6th January 2006 02:50 PM
editing to score thenewyear Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording 8 22nd November 2004 12:37 AM
Rhodes 73 score!!! PlugHead The good news channel 4 22nd September 2003 04:37 PM
Score!!!!!! Randall So much gear, so little time! 8 25th August 2003 02:10 PM

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24th October 2006, 06:03 AM   #1
Edward l'Elépha
Gear interested
 
Edward l'Elépha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: oakland
Posts: 5
Looking for a DAW to edit and Score for film.

I am building up a recording set-up designed to do audio and midi editing, mostly for short films, but also recording live instruments and vocals. I am looking on suggestions about which way to go as far as DAWs go. Is Nuendo more flexible for doing scoring / editing than Pro-Tools? What are the advantages / disadvantafes for my needs. I am a PC user and the DAW I choose to work in will dictate aspects of my gear set-up. Any comments and suggestions would be great, thanks.
Edward l'Elépha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th October 2006, 06:50 AM   #2
minister
Lives for gear
 
minister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 1,114
i am a film compser and audio post guy and i also do just music projects (record and mix and produce)...

i have used Pro Tools since V4.2 (i used Opcodes Studio Vision and SVP ... sniff...) and i stick with it for many reasons, but mainly : the power of and HD system and it's ability to mix and do audio post. as to midi, i use it like a typewriter and it is fine for me. i have some amazing samples now in EWQLSO Platinum XP, and i record a lot of stuff for my compositions too. and, i am on a mac. i am REALLY happy with my setup now.

that said, if you are on a PC and are just getting into it, i would seriously look at Nuendo ... i think Vienna samples are also optimized for PC use. a PT LE system can be cool, especially if you mix and record a lot -- but an HD system is better. yet, Nuendo might offer you more than an LE system and let you get some nice hardware too. lots of plug-ins available and the editing is good. tons of VST power, and with a big, fast PC, you'll get a lot of powere and reverb instances.... (not sure how people deal with the ltency with recording since i don't have a Nuendo setup). you will be able to get a Nuendo rig up and running fro less than an HD system.

for automation and big time mixing, HD is far superior (also for studio to studio compatibility for doing film work), but for everything else, i might look to Nuendo...
__________________
tom hambleton C.A.S.
I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW GOOD THAT MIX LOOKS!
ministry of fancy noises
minister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th October 2006, 01:47 PM   #3
manning1
Lives for gear
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: canada
Posts: 3,187
edward...
if your open minded and want to save a lot of money powertracks that i use
(pgmusic.com for demo) will do both audio and midi.
and is especially strong in the midi area.
(includeing midi filtering and a LOT of advanced midi features/editing/notation etc.)
however if you want to import a video also...it wont do that.
you can however sync useing smpte to an external device.
if you doubt me how good the program is just talk to other users whove used
the program on the powertracks forum at pgmusic.
cos i dont wish to get into daw wars. many pro tools users use it in the past bcos of the midi features in particular.
fyi it will sync useing 24 frame/25 frame/30 frame drop and non drop.
best to try it and see if it meets your needs exactly.
the reason i like it is no dongle to worry about.
but SPEND SOME TIME with it cos the feature list is very deep and not apparent on the surface. or a cursory look. eg..the ability to edit the left or right channels independently of a stereo audio track.
__________________
i'm just a dumb computer engr (ret'd)...."quantum computing is the future"
running a native software studio daw...Powertracks and Reaper on amd.
my little songs www.motagator.com/bmanning
(saving up for pristine ADA convertors i cant afford...lol)
manning1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th October 2006, 02:18 PM   #4
Geert van den Berg
Mac Moderator
 
Geert van den Berg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 2,583
Almost all the big name programs out there will do what you're asking, but in this modern times you definately want a sequencer which can also import a videofile as this makes queing the music to the pic much easier and will also be a benefit if you have to re-edit your music. So Powertracks does not suffice IMHO.

These will work great:
Cubase (has a bit more MIDI capabilities than Nuendo, Nuendo has more surround features)
Logic
Digital Performer
Pro Tools LE (with DV toolkit) or HD

I think PT HD is great you'll get a dedicated mixer, though inside your computer, but it's expensive and not always necessary. I think it will give you an advantage if you plan on using a lot of Virtual Instruments, because recording audio isn't slowed down by the strain that you'll get on your CPU.

But offcourse you could always split the VI's to a seperate computer and run another computer for recording tracks, which is still a cheaper option, but you'll have do some MIDI over Lan or other way of syncing them up, which IMHO is a bit of a hassle.

PT LE I would consider the least interesting because you can't easily offload anything to another computer a new installation means you'll have to buy a new dongle/interface.

I'd look into Cubase, Logic or Performer and see which of these suits your style of working... maybe you'll get enough power with one of the current powerhouse PC or Mac's that you won't need a second machine, but you'll have to try that out for yourself...

As I re-read your post I see you're a PC user, which renders Logic and Performer useless... easy choice then...
Geert van den Berg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th October 2006, 04:30 PM   #5
quincyg
Lives for gear
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,434
i do film work mostly. logic has the best quicktime synch options, like resize, movie offsets in either direction, you dont need to extract the audio seperate from the qt, BUT logic is really weak for audio tracking/editing. it is what i use on a daily basis.

nuendo looks like a good overall option, but is pricey at $2k. havent tried it or cubase which is the stripped down version of it.

dp is nice, but also lacks advanced qt features, also is not very customizable. may be the best bang for the buck. i got hung up on the lack of a few key features that bugged me, like the i/o,vol,pan controls on channel in the edit pane, and tracks overview window that is too small to work with. seems to be great for tracking, mixing and midi if you can get past the gui.

pt is said to have greatly improved midi, but i am looking at the new version and don't really see anything greatly improved other than instrument tracks. it is clearly the best for audio tracking and editing.

my $.02

also just saw the pc thing. I bet nuendo would be great for you.
quincyg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th October 2006, 07:01 PM   #6
statikcat
Lives for gear
 
statikcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: USA - Indiana
Posts: 774
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg View Post
These will work great:
Cubase (has a bit more MIDI capabilities than Nuendo, Nuendo has more surround features)
Nuendo 2 had the same midi features as Cubase SX2
Nuendo 3 has the same midi features as Cubase SX3.

The only time Nuendo had less midi options than Cubase was Nuendo 1 vs SX1.
statikcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th October 2006, 07:56 PM   #7
Geert van den Berg
Mac Moderator
 
Geert van den Berg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 2,583
Cool I didn't know that, does Nuendo also include a score editor?

Still for composing and recording Cubase might suffice.
Geert van den Berg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th October 2006, 08:25 PM   #8
Edward l'Elépha
Gear interested
 
Edward l'Elépha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: oakland
Posts: 5
Truly apprecaite it.

Thanks for all of your input, I am thinking Nuendo / Cubase is the way to go. It leaves me more room in my budget. I have used DP in the past and the lack of custimization was a real drag, sort of an eyesore too. I also did not like the video options compared to Logic wich i have used at school, but not having a mac at home I will more than likely go with Nuendo.
Also he is thread about the Score Edidtor in Nuendo from there user forums

http://www.nuendo.com/phpbb2/viewtop...t=score+editor
Edward l'Elépha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th October 2006, 10:18 PM   #9
azwun25
Lives for gear
 
azwun25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Roman Empire State
Posts: 1,430
Send a message via AIM to azwun25 Send a message via Yahoo to azwun25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg View Post
Cool I didn't know that, does Nuendo also include a score editor?

Still for composing and recording Cubase might suffice.
Absolutely! If the the post features are not needed then yes Cubase is fine.
__________________
"If the opposite of pro is a con then look beyond this
The opposite of congress must be progress"

~Cage
Grand Ol' Party Crash
azwun25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th October 2006, 12:18 PM   #10
UnderTow
Lives for gear
 
UnderTow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 548
Cakewalk Sonar is also an option. Here is a video about the 64 bit advantages of Sonar 5/6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JnNjFirGxU

More info on Sonar 6: http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/default.asp

More videos on the new Sonar 6 features (and some old sftuff) here:

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...&search=Search

On a PC your choices for film/TV scoring and recording/mixing/composition/production are basicly (in no particular order) ProTools, Sonar and Nuendo.

Alistair
UnderTow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th October 2006, 02:04 PM   #11
scott petito
Gear addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: woodstock NY
Posts: 395
DP for film


cheers
SP
__________________
www.scottpetitoproductions.com
scott petito is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25th October 2006, 05:16 PM   #12
manning1
Lives for gear
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: canada
Posts: 3,187
frankly i'm curious if there is ONE all encompassing product that does audio AND
midi AND film without compromise... often i found in the past the solution was either very expensive or some feature missing i needed.
for example if a film product then maybe some midi or audio feature i needed
was missing or vice versa.
also then there was the question of needing quite a lot of computer processing power. thus some folks would typically sync up the sequencer to an external video device via smpte to keep computer load down was my understanding.
what i mean to say is .....is there a product available that lets you have say 8 video tracks for example , so you can rearrange the various video takes and edit video plus at the same time have lots of audio tracks plus plug ins running and lots of midi tracks ?? this is obviously different than say haveing one video track and just placeing various effects samples at different smpte time points..like doors creaking/foley/sound effects etc.
just curious...ive heard there are products being worked on under linux...but havent had the time to look at them.
doesnt something like pyramix offer video integration ??
i came across something ages ago called DDclip....doing something in the audio and video area ...a cheap shareware product but never had the time to look at it.

thus i'm real curious if a good CHEAP solution exists (sans dongle....) so i can tell some of my friends who are interested in manipulating video etc.
DP would be outside their budget as well as some of the others.
__________________
i'm just a dumb computer engr (ret'd)...."quantum computing is the future"
running a native software studio daw...Powertracks and Reaper on amd.
my little songs www.motagator.com/bmanning
(saving up for pristine ADA convertors i cant afford...lol)
manning1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th October 2006, 05:24 PM   #13
GYMusic
Lives for gear
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Santa Ynez, CA
Posts: 553
Sonar here.
__________________
Web Site
MySpace
Blog

“I believe that working with limited tracks in those days made us better arrangers. Having to do reductions made us better mixers. Having limited equipment made us better engineers.” - 2008 GY
GYMusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25th October 2006, 05:48 PM   #14
VictorQ
Gear Head
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 50
Send a message via MSN to VictorQ
I'm currently editing a short-film project, and it's proven extremely useful that I was able to import the (audio) edits from the avid project into PT.

But can you do that in any DAW?

It's basically just omf import, but I've read (in here) that it never works. Worked fine for me!

Now my only problem is that the original timecode on the files, I gave him to sync, were crap, so I can't line up the the additional audio we recorded on set...
VictorQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th October 2006, 07:18 PM   #15
Geert van den Berg
Mac Moderator
 
Geert van den Berg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 2,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorQ View Post
It's basically just omf import, but I've read (in here) that it never works. Worked fine for me!

Now my only problem is that the original timecode on the files, I gave him to sync, were crap, so I can't line up the the additional audio we recorded on set...
OMF is not always crap and for doing post-pro a must because you can keep handles on the files to edit.

However if people asking for session interchange with music between DAW's, consolidating files is most failsafe and with OMF things can be set wrong. For example an OMF that links to 32bit audio files which PT can't read...
Geert van den Berg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th October 2006, 07:20 PM   #16
Geert van den Berg
Mac Moderator
 
Geert van den Berg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 2,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by manning1 View Post
frankly i'm curious if there is ONE all encompassing product that does audio AND
midi AND film without compromise...
IMHO yes there is, actually there are many, all the ones I listed are up to the task.

We're not talking about HD video here, it's just a working copy. If you'd use an external source to play your videofiles/tape, you won't get a high quality copy either, most of the time the final edit to picture has not even been made yet.
Geert van den Berg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th October 2006, 08:55 PM   #17
UnderTow
Lives for gear
 
UnderTow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg View Post
IMHO yes there is, actually there are many, all the ones I listed are up to the task.
I think manning1 was refering to full video editing AND full audio/MIDI editing/recording. Afaik, there is no product that does that. On the other hand you seem to be refering to having a video track in a full-blown DAW which I think is what the orignal poster wants. So you are both right.

Alistair
UnderTow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th October 2006, 09:40 PM   #18
manning1
Lives for gear
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: canada
Posts: 3,187
tow....
you read my mind. correct sir.
includeing full bore video editing. take manipulation. etc etc.
__________________
i'm just a dumb computer engr (ret'd)...."quantum computing is the future"
running a native software studio daw...Powertracks and Reaper on amd.
my little songs www.motagator.com/bmanning
(saving up for pristine ADA convertors i cant afford...lol)
manning1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th October 2006, 02:13 AM   #19
minister
Lives for gear
 
minister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 1,114
OMF functionality FCP-->PT or AVID-->PT works spectacularly....


OMF Nuendo, DP or other into or out of PT, not so much.
__________________
tom hambleton C.A.S.
I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW GOOD THAT MIX LOOKS!
ministry of fancy noises
minister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th October 2006, 07:08 PM   #20
7161
Lives for gear
 
7161's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 563
if only someone would add REALLY GOOD midi to VEGAS I'd be in heaven, I even miss stuff in VEGAS as silly as the drag wide/narrow/position widget on the arrangement window

you could sync it i spose for the midi stuff to Logic or whatever (what we use for score jobs), which is something i'd like to try eventualy, the new vegas (since 6) supports generic remote controllers too *sigh*
__________________

www.7161.com

Free music space for artists bands & deejays
Free podcasting for artists, bands & deejays
7161 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.0.0