Looking for a DAW to edit and Score for film.

[Edward l'Elépha]

I am building up a recording set-up designed to do audio and midi editing, mostly for short films, but also recording live instruments and vocals. I am looking on suggestions about which way to go as far as DAWs go. Is Nuendo more flexible for doing scoring / editing than Pro-Tools? What are the advantages / disadvantafes for my needs. I am a PC user and the DAW I choose to work in will dictate aspects of my gear set-up. Any comments and suggestions would be great, thanks.

[minister]

i am a film compser and audio post guy and i also do just music projects (record and mix and produce)...

i have used Pro Tools since V4.2 (i used Opcodes Studio Vision and SVP ... sniff...) and i stick with it for many reasons, but mainly : the power of and HD system and it's ability to mix and do audio post. as to midi, i use it like a typewriter and it is fine for me. i have some amazing samples now in EWQLSO Platinum XP, and i record a lot of stuff for my compositions too. and, i am on a mac. i am REALLY happy with my setup now.

that said, if you are on a PC and are just getting into it, i would seriously look at Nuendo ... i think Vienna samples are also optimized for PC use. a PT LE system can be cool, especially if you mix and record a lot -- but an HD system is better. yet, Nuendo might offer you more than an LE system and let you get some nice hardware too. lots of plug-ins available and the editing is good. tons of VST power, and with a big, fast PC, you'll get a lot of powere and reverb instances.... (not sure how people deal with the ltency with recording since i don't have a Nuendo setup). you will be able to get a Nuendo rig up and running fro less than an HD system.

for automation and big time mixing, HD is far superior (also for studio to studio compatibility for doing film work), but for everything else, i might look to Nuendo...

[manning1]

edward...
if your open minded and want to save a lot of money powertracks that i use
(pgmusic.com for demo) will do both audio and midi.
and is especially strong in the midi area.
(includeing midi filtering and a LOT of advanced midi features/editing/notation etc.)
however if you want to import a video also...it wont do that.
you can however sync useing smpte to an external device.
if you doubt me how good the program is just talk to other users whove used
the program on the powertracks forum at pgmusic.
cos i dont wish to get into daw wars. many pro tools users use it in the past bcos of the midi features in particular.
fyi it will sync useing 24 frame/25 frame/30 frame drop and non drop.
best to try it and see if it meets your needs exactly.
the reason i like it is no dongle to worry about.
but SPEND SOME TIME with it cos the feature list is very deep and not apparent on the surface. or a cursory look. eg..the ability to edit the left or right channels independently of a stereo audio track.

[Geert van den Berg]

Almost all the big name programs out there will do what you're asking, but in this modern times you definately want a sequencer which can also import a videofile as this makes queing the music to the pic much easier and will also be a benefit if you have to re-edit your music. So Powertracks does not suffice IMHO.

These will work great:
Cubase (has a bit more MIDI capabilities than Nuendo, Nuendo has more surround features)
Logic
Digital Performer
Pro Tools LE (with DV toolkit) or HD

I think PT HD is great you'll get a dedicated mixer, though inside your computer, but it's expensive and not always necessary. I think it will give you an advantage if you plan on using a lot of Virtual Instruments, because recording audio isn't slowed down by the strain that you'll get on your CPU.

But offcourse you could always split the VI's to a seperate computer and run another computer for recording tracks, which is still a cheaper option, but you'll have do some MIDI over Lan or other way of syncing them up, which IMHO is a bit of a hassle.

PT LE I would consider the least interesting because you can't easily offload anything to another computer a new installation means you'll have to buy a new dongle/interface.

I'd look into Cubase, Logic or Performer and see which of these suits your style of working... maybe you'll get enough power with one of the current powerhouse PC or Mac's that you won't need a second machine, but you'll have to try that out for yourself...

As I re-read your post I see you're a PC user, which renders Logic and Performer useless... easy choice then...

[quincyg]

i do film work mostly. logic has the best quicktime synch options, like resize, movie offsets in either direction, you dont need to extract the audio seperate from the qt, BUT logic is really weak for audio tracking/editing. it is what i use on a daily basis.

nuendo looks like a good overall option, but is pricey at $2k. havent tried it or cubase which is the stripped down version of it.

dp is nice, but also lacks advanced qt features, also is not very customizable. may be the best bang for the buck. i got hung up on the lack of a few key features that bugged me, like the i/o,vol,pan controls on channel in the edit pane, and tracks overview window that is too small to work with. seems to be great for tracking, mixing and midi if you can get past the gui.

pt is said to have greatly improved midi, but i am looking at the new version and don't really see anything greatly improved other than instrument tracks. it is clearly the best for audio tracking and editing.

my $.02

also just saw the pc thing. I bet nuendo would be great for you.

[statikcat]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

These will work great:
Cubase (has a bit more MIDI capabilities than Nuendo, Nuendo has more surround features)

Nuendo 2 had the same midi features as Cubase SX2
Nuendo 3 has the same midi features as Cubase SX3.

The only time Nuendo had less midi options than Cubase was Nuendo 1 vs SX1.

[Geert van den Berg]

Cool I didn't know that, does Nuendo also include a score editor?

Still for composing and recording Cubase might suffice.

[Edward l'Elépha]

Thanks for all of your input, I am thinking Nuendo / Cubase is the way to go. It leaves me more room in my budget. I have used DP in the past and the lack of custimization was a real drag, sort of an eyesore too. I also did not like the video options compared to Logic wich i have used at school, but not having a mac at home I will more than likely go with Nuendo.
Also he is thread about the Score Edidtor in Nuendo from there user forums

http://www.nuendo.com/phpbb2/viewtop...t=score+editor

[azwun25]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

Cool I didn't know that, does Nuendo also include a score editor?

Still for composing and recording Cubase might suffice.

Absolutely! If the the post features are not needed then yes Cubase is fine.

[UnderTow]

Cakewalk Sonar is also an option. Here is a video about the 64 bit advantages of Sonar 5/6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JnNjFirGxU

More info on Sonar 6: http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/default.asp

More videos on the new Sonar 6 features (and some old sftuff) here:

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...&search=Search

On a PC your choices for film/TV scoring and recording/mixing/composition/production are basicly (in no particular order) ProTools, Sonar and Nuendo.

Alistair

[scott petito]

DP for film


cheers
SP

[manning1]

frankly i'm curious if there is ONE all encompassing product that does audio AND
midi AND film without compromise... often i found in the past the solution was either very expensive or some feature missing i needed.
for example if a film product then maybe some midi or audio feature i needed
was missing or vice versa.
also then there was the question of needing quite a lot of computer processing power. thus some folks would typically sync up the sequencer to an external video device via smpte to keep computer load down was my understanding.
what i mean to say is .....is there a product available that lets you have say 8 video tracks for example , so you can rearrange the various video takes and edit video plus at the same time have lots of audio tracks plus plug ins running and lots of midi tracks ?? this is obviously different than say haveing one video track and just placeing various effects samples at different smpte time points..like doors creaking/foley/sound effects etc.
just curious...ive heard there are products being worked on under linux...but havent had the time to look at them.
doesnt something like pyramix offer video integration ??
i came across something ages ago called DDclip....doing something in the audio and video area ...a cheap shareware product but never had the time to look at it.

thus i'm real curious if a good CHEAP solution exists (sans dongle....) so i can tell some of my friends who are interested in manipulating video etc.
DP would be outside their budget as well as some of the others.

[GYMusic]

Sonar here.

[VictorQ]

I'm currently editing a short-film project, and it's proven extremely useful that I was able to import the (audio) edits from the avid project into PT.

But can you do that in any DAW?

It's basically just omf import, but I've read (in here) that it never works. Worked fine for me!

Now my only problem is that the original timecode on the files, I gave him to sync, were crap, so I can't line up the the additional audio we recorded on set...

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by VictorQ

It's basically just omf import, but I've read (in here) that it never works. Worked fine for me!

Now my only problem is that the original timecode on the files, I gave him to sync, were crap, so I can't line up the the additional audio we recorded on set...

OMF is not always crap and for doing post-pro a must because you can keep handles on the files to edit.

However if people asking for session interchange with music between DAW's, consolidating files is most failsafe and with OMF things can be set wrong. For example an OMF that links to 32bit audio files which PT can't read...

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by manning1

frankly i'm curious if there is ONE all encompassing product that does audio AND
midi AND film without compromise...

IMHO yes there is, actually there are many, all the ones I listed are up to the task.

We're not talking about HD video here, it's just a working copy. If you'd use an external source to play your videofiles/tape, you won't get a high quality copy either, most of the time the final edit to picture has not even been made yet.

[UnderTow]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

IMHO yes there is, actually there are many, all the ones I listed are up to the task.

I think manning1 was refering to full video editing AND full audio/MIDI editing/recording. Afaik, there is no product that does that. On the other hand you seem to be refering to having a video track in a full-blown DAW which I think is what the orignal poster wants. So you are both right.

Alistair

[manning1]

tow....
you read my mind. correct sir.
includeing full bore video editing. take manipulation. etc etc.

[minister]

OMF functionality FCP-->PT or AVID-->PT works spectacularly....


OMF Nuendo, DP or other into or out of PT, not so much.

[7161]

if only someone would add REALLY GOOD midi to VEGAS I'd be in heaven, I even miss stuff in VEGAS as silly as the drag wide/narrow/position widget on the arrangement window

you could sync it i spose for the midi stuff to Logic or whatever (what we use for score jobs), which is something i'd like to try eventualy, the new vegas (since 6) supports generic remote controllers too *sigh*