DP Crashing-pullllleeeze help!!!

[Robert Sands]

I have been going thru HELL with this problem for just about a year now. My rock solid dual 800 G4 Mac/DP setup is now locking up consistently. I never had a problem in the past and I have been using it 7 days a week for several years scoring tons of TV shows and doing jingles, music beds etc..... I added a UAD1 board a year ago but took it out and it still crashed. I added a 23 HD Apple cinema diplay and a video board about a year ago but yanked that out and it still crashed. That's about all I added about the time it started crashing. I have reinstalled my operating system ( 9.2.2), bought a new Glyph drive, put all new ram in ( 1.5 gig ) updated and reinstalled DP, Freemidi, UAD software, and all other software. Bought powered USB hubs but that didn't help. Bought a new MidiTimepiece AV USB but that didn't help. Been on tech support phone calls for hours and hours with MOTU and nothing they told me to do has worked. Many times they thought that they found the answer but I am still locking up/crashing. I am so frustrated and depressed over this that I'm at my witts end. I make my living creating music and this is a very serious problem for me. It's the last thing I think about as I'm falling asleep and the first thought that assaults my brain when I wake up. I have done every concievable freekin' thing other than go out and buy a new G4. I have a lot of synths - Virus C, Supernova II, Nord Lead 3, JP8000, Audity 2000, Karma, Triton Rack, K2500, 1080, 3080. S5000's, SP700's, P250, EX5R, Electribe ES1, MC505, etc.... all going into a D8B and then into a MOTU 308. Could one of them have an OS that is clashing with DP? I haven't updated them in a while - in fact I've never updated any of them. I don't think some of them can be updated but I think that maybe some can - like the Virus. Could something like that lock up DP? What the F*** is going on. I know it is a very tough thing to figure out without you lived thru this nightmare but does anyone have any idea what is causing me to still lock up? Has anyone had a similar problem with unexplained lockups and crashes that they conquered. I beg for an answer - at the end of my rope!!!!! I was just working on a slamming techno track and this freakin' thing locked up !!!
Robert

[Albert]

I don't see how it could be the synths. Their only connection to the Mac is through the midi interface and their audio outputs, right? There's no way that would conflict.

Did you do a clean install of OS 9.2.2? HAve you run Disk Warrior or Tech Tool to find any problems with your directory or bad blocks, etc.? Have you defragged the hard drive recently? Did you reformat the hard drive?

Reformatting is a pain obviously, as you have to save *everything* on your disk before doing it. Invariably authorizations have to be redone, and all that hassle. But it may be some sort of disk/directory problem.

What version of DP are you using?

I'm using DP 3.11 on an identical Mac and it's been very stable. Sounds like it could be a directory or disk problem or a bad extension conflict. Do you use Conflict Catcher?

[Robert Sands]

Albert,
DP 3.11 also. And yes, a clean install of the Mac OS. I have a very good tech who is very thourough. Did the total Norton thing from soup to nuts and defraged the drives and also reformatted. MOTU advised me to do it because they couldn't figure out what the problem was. So a few weeks ago I went for it - I did everything - the whole enchilada and I still crash! I agree, I don't think it could be the synths either but I'm just trying to think of any possible thing, however remote. Could the MIDI cable be sending something weird back into the MidiTimepiece? Can't be, right? Nothing is going back into the MidiTimepice except the master keyboard which is the Yamaha P250. That's even brand new. I had a KX88 and thought maybe that was the culprit and so bought the P250. Man, I have thrown a ton of money at this problem! No, I don't use Conflict Catcher, never heard of it. Do you think it's worth a try? Does it work on something like DP. I also should add that my extensions are lean and mean - exactly the ones that MOTU tech support tells me are the ones I should have on and nothing more. Would you go as far as to just buy a new Mac at this point? I mean, I hate to spend the money but what the hell else can I do? I think I have replaced just about everything else. It would mean the possible end of a true nightmare. But I just couldn't imagine if it locked up after that. I would flip totally!!!
Thanks for your suggestions,
Robert

[heinz]

Could be heat. Seriously... does this happen after the system has been running for a bit? (like 20min +). You might try running with your case open with a fan blowing on the CPU. It could very well be that when DP is pushing the cpu to the limit, it's overheating.

[Mario-C.]

whew it could be a zillion things...

one question,

did you install DP with only the minimal extension set turned on ? that is turn off every extension you don't need to perform the installation, that has helped me when I'm having trouble...

turn off extensions you don't need

I would disconnect all your gear and check DP alone to see if it's a software conflict first then I would add stuff one by one until you find where the trouble is

have you performed a hardware system check ? something might be wrong with the computer

[Albert]

Does your computer only crash when running DP, or will it freeze while using other software as well? How much RAM do you have assigned to DP?

Conflict Catcher is software that helps you manage extensions, and find and fix conflicts between them. It's like extension manager but much better. I can't imagine using my Mac without it.

[Robert Sands]

I have 524288 assigned to DP ( preffered size ) and the mac has 1.5 gigs of ram. I don't crash in any other program but I hardly use any other - only Itunes to burn cd of finished piece. No, I didn't do a hardware system check. The heat thing doesn't seem to fit. I could crash immediatly upon playing the first piece. I just crashed first thing this morning laying down a simple part. Extensions are lean and mean - only what MOTU told me to have on. The person who finally comes up with the answer to this mindblowing problem of mine will get a shrine dedicated to him/her in my studio that whenever I pour my ale after a tough day - that glass will be raised and a toast will go out in your honour!
Sincerely and so very frustrated,
Robert

[tradershort]

Robert,

Do you have any new 3rd PARTY PLUG-INS installed? I get this problem in DP3 once in a while where it'll start freezing & crashing. But, I'm in OS9. MOTU talked me thru a complete reinstall, etc., but to no avail. For me it's AUTOTUNE that does it. I go to my OS9 Hard drive, plugins, and drag Autotune to my desktop. I then restart the machine, and DP3 functions perfectly. I then drag Autotune back into the Plug-ins folder and it's all good.

It's worth a shot. Let me know...

Damon LaScot

[tradershort]

...more....I would drag ALL 3rd PARTY PLUG-INS out of your plug-ins folder, add them back one at a time and run DP. I also use stuff like WAVES, etc. but I had to do a process of elimination to find the culprit - which was Antares Autotune.

Damon LaScot

[alphajerk]

its most likely plugins. i have crash issues all the time but its the plugins that cause it.... unfortunately, i need the plugins so i deal with the crashes.

what does it say when it crashes? is it a full freeze with a hard restart or is there a app crash with an error message?

[Mario-C.]

another question ,
are you using OMS ? if you are, don't
another thing that works like a charm is to delete all preferences, including plug ins, softsynths, freemidi and everything else using norton's wipe info, not trashing them...

[Robert Sands]

YES - I have Auto Tune! Could that be the culprit?! Explain to me again what to do to eleviate the problem. I have no other 3rd party plugins except UAD. I am also running OS9 - 9.2.2 to be exact. I am not running OMS. When I crash it is almost always a total freeze - the mouse doesn't move and audio and/or midi notes are stuck on. An ugly train wreck of a lockup. Could it be that damn Autotune?! Please tell me , in baby terms so I completely understand without a shadow of a doubt, what exactly I do to make it go away. If it means chucking Autotune and only using it when I'm correcting vocal pitches then so be it. Damon, you told me in your post what to do but please explain again.

Thank you so much for your kind replies, everyone of you,
Robert

[tradershort]

OK, open your OS9 HD, navigate to "Extensions" (I believe), and to "Plug-Ins". You'll see all your MOTU Plug-ins there listed alphabetically. You'll also see AUTOTUNE. Click on it and drag it to your desktop. Start DP3, run it, see if it crashes. I bet it won't. Then you can quit DP, drag AT back into the "Plug-Ins" folder, and start DP again. It should be fine. I have to do this everyso often.

If you need to, call me.

Damon LaScot
212-355-7293 h
917-776-6201 c

[Robert Sands]

Damon,
Got up this morning and read your post. Did what you said and have been working for about an hour. No lock ups yet. One stuck midi note while recording a part. Hit the panic button on the MidiTimepiece AV while laying down the part and the stuck note cleared. This techno piece I'm working on has a lot of stuff going on so maybe that stuck note is due to so much data. I will keep working with Autotune sitting on my desktop and let you know the results. I can sometimes go a few days without a lockup/crash or it can happen a half dozen times in one day - there is no pattern and so I won't know for sure if this fixes it for several days. Your fix does have me excited though and I pray that it ends a long nightmare. Thank you so much for the info.
Sincerely,
Robert Sands

[tradershort]

What?! No SHRINE dedicated to me yet?!!

Glad to hear you haven't locked up yet. You can actually put AT back in the Plug-Ins folder until it does lock up. When it does, restart and remove it the way you did and see what happens.

Can I ask you, does DP3 take full advantage of the Dual Processor in your G4? I've heard differing accounts on this. I'm considering getting another Mac and am not sure re the dual proc thing. Are you in the UK?

Damon

[Robert Sands]

Damon,

I'm not sure how much better DP runs whether I have Dual Proscessor on or off. It doesn't seem any different to me. So if you've heard that from others than I would agree with that opinion. I don't live in the UK - I am from the states- New Jersey to be exact. I live in Stockton, which is in central Jersey near the Pennsylvania border about 1/2 hour north of Trenton. By your tel# I assumed you live in New York - is that so? Will putting AuotoTune back into the plugins folder make me crash again? I'd just as soon leave it out until I need it to fix a vocal which is not too often. Or does just removing it and putting it back in make the problem go away for a while?

Robert

[tradershort]

Robert,

JERSEY?! Your spelling said Limey to me. I still want my shrine.....never had one from a guy before....!

Anyway, I'm definitely curious to see if DP crashes again after putting AT back in. If it does, take it out again, then see if that fixes it. This way you'll know for sure if that's the issue, which sounds plausible. I'm a big fan of knowing for sure....

Removing it definitely makes the problem go away, if there's a problem. In other words, I think it has to crash first. That's the only to know for certain.

Damon