Logic trouble on OS 10.2.x

tobymusic · 25th November 2003, 07:56 PM

Anyone still using Logic for MIDI sequencing?

I encountered very bad midi timing with Logic when I switched to OS X.

I use a FW800 dual 1.25 G4 and the emagic AMT-8 interface.
I tried Logic 6.0 to 6.3.2, OS wise I went through 10.2.3 up to 10.2.8 and it is all the same: Midi is early!!!

I use a hardware mixer for my synths, so no latency here. When you send quarter-notes to the exs24 and also to any connected midi-device, the midi device is receiving and playing the notes earlier than the exs24 (same for any other software instrument).

The amount of midi pre delay is dependent on the chosen audio hardware buffer. The bigger the buffer, the greater the pre-delay. Strange, huh?

Did anyone else encounter that problem, or is it just my mac?

tobymusic · 25th November 2003, 08:02 PM

Oh, I forgot to mention that the amount of midi-delay is around 45-50 ms at a buffer size of 2048 at 44.1k.

And the delay varies during the first couple of bars after pressing strart.

I also run Cubase SX on that machine, but here midi timing is fine. So it really comes down to Logic. Weird.

nbutter · 25th November 2003, 08:23 PM

i'm running logic 6.3 under os 10.2 and i'm not experiencing that problem.

it DOES sound weird.

will ask my logic guru friend if he has any ideas...

if you need to hack something together...i wonder whether there's some way to add back some midi delay in the environment? not elegant, and probably a PITA, and i'm not sure how to do it, but it seems like the kind of weird thing you can do in Logic's environment...

tobymusic · 25th November 2003, 08:30 PM

Thanks for the idea. There is a general midi-delay on the sync-settings page that can be used to accomplish this. But I am still hoping to find out what exactly is wrong. I will test it on another machine if I can get hold of one.

saint · 26th November 2003, 05:02 AM

Hi Toby,

I must say your faults do seem rather strange and I've not come across that, however I do have quite a few other quirks that I wonder if you have come across.

I have been having all sorts of problems like the midi and the audio becoming dis-jointed and totally out of time....for example on a recent record I was running about 8 midi devices, some multi part, with esx, atmosphere, trilogy and audio. In this set up 7 out of ten times if you were in a cycle after about 2mins the midi and internal would be suddenly out by about 0.3bars...great noise!!! but would then be fine if re started.

Now my machine is no slouch mdr with 2 gig of ram so this shouldn't be an issue, I too am runing 6.3.2 and 10.2.8 and have updated the midi drivers.

However the intresting fact is that my machine got so bad that the dealers have got it back to look into and kindly lent me a G5, all be it a baby one, and the faults have not occured on this with the same interfaces.

There is an opion that the blame lies with osx.....because you cant see if you are truely running the latest drivers and it is not easy to uninstall previous versions, thus the 5 having been freshly installed upto date is at present behaving. I would therefore suggest a backup and fresh install if you can afford the downtime.

The fault may also be with the audio....are you running a324 or 424 card by any chance?

regards,
Saint.

tobymusic · 26th November 2003, 09:55 AM

Hey Saint, thanks for the reply!

No, I´m not running a MOTU card, I´m using a RME Hammerfall DSP card with a digiface interface.

I recently did a fresh install of the complete system and all the Logic and CoreMidi Driver updates from emagic. Still the same. I did that because I also have trouble using a Mackie HUI or my Yamaha DM1000 as a HUI with Logic. Again this works rock solid with Cubase SX but Logic just freezes after a couple of minutes, even if I don´t touch the HUI at all. I don´t feel it might be something with OS X, perhaps it is something with these (rare) FW800 models...

I also have 2 GB of Ram installed, so I suppose your machine is also a FW800 model, right?

BTW I have also come across your problem with things drifting apart in cycle mode sometimes, especially audio instruments vs. midi stuff. Didn´t even think about that any more.

Cheers,
Toby

saint · 30th November 2003, 06:30 PM

Heya mate,

been out of it for a couple of days hence no reply.....

You know I'm starting to come to the same train of thought.....It could well be something to do with the fw800s (yes that is what I have also) My mac guy could not re-create any of my troubles on another machine even running my interfaces. I also have not encountered ANY faults with the G5 running the system...

I will let you know more as it unfolds, they are taking the fw800 for some tests this week.

Saint.

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25th November 2003, 07:56 PM	#1
tobymusic Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Continental Europe Posts: 342	Logic trouble on OS 10.2.x Anyone still using Logic for MIDI sequencing? I encountered very bad midi timing with Logic when I switched to OS X. I use a FW800 dual 1.25 G4 and the emagic AMT-8 interface. I tried Logic 6.0 to 6.3.2, OS wise I went through 10.2.3 up to 10.2.8 and it is all the same: Midi is early!!! I use a hardware mixer for my synths, so no latency here. When you send quarter-notes to the exs24 and also to any connected midi-device, the midi device is receiving and playing the notes earlier than the exs24 (same for any other software instrument). The amount of midi pre delay is dependent on the chosen audio hardware buffer. The bigger the buffer, the greater the pre-delay. Strange, huh? Did anyone else encounter that problem, or is it just my mac?

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25th November 2003, 08:02 PM	#2
tobymusic Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Continental Europe Posts: 342	Oh, I forgot to mention that the amount of midi-delay is around 45-50 ms at a buffer size of 2048 at 44.1k. And the delay varies during the first couple of bars after pressing strart. I also run Cubase SX on that machine, but here midi timing is fine. So it really comes down to Logic. Weird.

25th November 2003, 08:23 PM	#3
nbutter Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: nyc Posts: 174	i'm running logic 6.3 under os 10.2 and i'm not experiencing that problem. it DOES sound weird. will ask my logic guru friend if he has any ideas... if you need to hack something together...i wonder whether there's some way to add back some midi delay in the environment? not elegant, and probably a PITA, and i'm not sure how to do it, but it seems like the kind of weird thing you can do in Logic's environment...

25th November 2003, 08:30 PM	#4
tobymusic Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Continental Europe Posts: 342	Thanks for the idea. There is a general midi-delay on the sync-settings page that can be used to accomplish this. But I am still hoping to find out what exactly is wrong. I will test it on another machine if I can get hold of one.

26th November 2003, 05:02 AM	#5
saint Gear interested Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: london Posts: 29	Hi Toby, I must say your faults do seem rather strange and I've not come across that, however I do have quite a few other quirks that I wonder if you have come across. I have been having all sorts of problems like the midi and the audio becoming dis-jointed and totally out of time....for example on a recent record I was running about 8 midi devices, some multi part, with esx, atmosphere, trilogy and audio. In this set up 7 out of ten times if you were in a cycle after about 2mins the midi and internal would be suddenly out by about 0.3bars...great noise!!! but would then be fine if re started. Now my machine is no slouch mdr with 2 gig of ram so this shouldn't be an issue, I too am runing 6.3.2 and 10.2.8 and have updated the midi drivers. However the intresting fact is that my machine got so bad that the dealers have got it back to look into and kindly lent me a G5, all be it a baby one, and the faults have not occured on this with the same interfaces. There is an opion that the blame lies with osx.....because you cant see if you are truely running the latest drivers and it is not easy to uninstall previous versions, thus the 5 having been freshly installed upto date is at present behaving. I would therefore suggest a backup and fresh install if you can afford the downtime. The fault may also be with the audio....are you running a324 or 424 card by any chance? regards, Saint.

26th November 2003, 09:55 AM	#6
tobymusic Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Continental Europe Posts: 342	Hey Saint, thanks for the reply! No, I´m not running a MOTU card, I´m using a RME Hammerfall DSP card with a digiface interface. I recently did a fresh install of the complete system and all the Logic and CoreMidi Driver updates from emagic. Still the same. I did that because I also have trouble using a Mackie HUI or my Yamaha DM1000 as a HUI with Logic. Again this works rock solid with Cubase SX but Logic just freezes after a couple of minutes, even if I don´t touch the HUI at all. I don´t feel it might be something with OS X, perhaps it is something with these (rare) FW800 models... I also have 2 GB of Ram installed, so I suppose your machine is also a FW800 model, right? BTW I have also come across your problem with things drifting apart in cycle mode sometimes, especially audio instruments vs. midi stuff. Didn´t even think about that any more. Cheers, Toby

30th November 2003, 06:30 PM	#7
saint Gear interested Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: london Posts: 29	Heya mate, been out of it for a couple of days hence no reply..... You know I'm starting to come to the same train of thought.....It could well be something to do with the fw800s (yes that is what I have also) My mac guy could not re-create any of my troubles on another machine even running my interfaces. I also have not encountered ANY faults with the G5 running the system... I will let you know more as it unfolds, they are taking the fw800 for some tests this week. Saint.