Best Drum Trigger interface for BFD and similar?

[Tibbon]

I'm getting a kit here soon, but truthfully at the moment my space sux soundwise. I plan to record actual high hats and other brass most of the time. However, the rest of the kit is going to be cheap (getting it for free at the moment, so whatever), and my space again is less than perfect.

Also my collection of pres/mics for drums/compressors/outboard eq/... well it doesn't exist.

So I am going to get a set of the Ddrum Pro triggers for the kit and use BFD or similar for most of it. I've been pleased for the most part with the sounds from BFD and they are certainly better than I could afford to attain the sounds of at the moment on my own. I also want to be able to take a laptop or whatever live, and use odd electronic sounds with the triggers, etc. Seemed to work well when I saw NIN play

What interface should I get to get the triggers best into my computer? I used to have a Roland TD-5 kit and it was pretty horrid. Part of that was the kit, and part of it was that the drum brain was ********. The high hats were horrid, the dual triggering was nonexistant, couldn't choke the cymbals, etc.

I don't need the sounds on the brain, just something that gets it REALLY WELL into the computer. Price not really a major issue (as long as it's somewhat reasonable).

[Confusionator]

DrumKat and associated pedals from www.alternatemode.com

[Bishbashbosh]

DrumKAT is great.....
If you have the Ddrum triggers, then the Ddrum brain is unbeatable IMO, if a little pricey if you're just using it for triggering.

It also depends how many triggers you intend to use. If you want the whole kit working then a quality interface is much more important to cancel cross-talk and false triggering (especially in a live situation where on-stage monitoring can interfere with accurate tracking)
If you're mostly just intending to get kick and snare, then a cheaper interface (like a used Alesis D4) will suffice.

[GGreen]

Im sure they wont mind me saying...

Pintech had a new brain at the last trade show I saw them at.

USB/midi i/o no sounds obviously but 32 channels 6 or 8 of which were suitable for hihats etc.

They werent sure of the final shipping price but it was 'affordable' a lot less than than any other brain on the market , I dont want to say what they said in case I get it wrong.

But I certianly went 'ooo cool' when I heard. If you intending to use it with third party sound sets via a computer it makes sense to not pay for the expensive brains with sounds in.

GFX

[Tibbon]

The DrumKats are cool, but feel funny to me playing, and I'm not sure how some of the other drummers that I play with would get along on them. They remind me of the Roland Octapads or whatever those things were. Kinda cool beside a kit, but not for my main kit.

Although, you are right I will probably 90% of the time be triggering kick/snare. Damn, if I didn't need to have dual triggering/rimshot support (and brush support if at all possible) I'd probably go with just using my Machinedrum's trigger inputs (As there are just two), but those are far from perfect.

I'll probably only have it set up as a 4 piece kit (I normally keep the ride where the Mid-tom would be), with only the occasional fills. I'm a lame drummer, but at least it keeps things simple.

Has anyone had any experience between the Ddrum Pro triggers vs their Red Eye triggers, or other triggers on the market? I've had advice from several drummer friends that they liked those best. I might keep a set of those 'silent' mesh heads around as well for late night recording and playing.

I figure this is the cheapest way to get a V-drum style kit going, but still make it actually feel like a real kit.

I want to look into that pintech brain.

[Tibbon]

Or... How Horrid is the Roland TMC-6? It's pretty cheap, and like I said, at most i'll need 4 inputs. http://www.rolandus.com/products/pro...24&ParentId=64

[captain54]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

Or... How Horrid is the Roland TMC-6? It's pretty cheap, and like I said, at most i'll need 4 inputs. http://www.rolandus.com/products/pro...24&ParentId=64

I had a Roland VClub kit with a td6 brain that worked great with virtual drums and didn't take much space...you could probably pick up a used one for pretty cheeeep

make sure you get the mesh head snare though.....I think its the Pd 80 dual trigger or even better the pd 120 dual trigger

[Tibbon]

Originally Posted by captain54

I had a Roland VClub kit with a td6 brain that worked great with virtual drums and didn't take much space...you could probably pick up a used one for pretty cheeeep

make sure you get the mesh head snare though.....I think its the Pd 80 dual trigger or even better the pd 120 dual trigger

I'll probably be using a real snare of sorts with a DDrum trigger on it. That way I at least have the option of mic'ing it, and I'll be able to play more naturally.

[captain54]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

I'll probably be using a real snare of sorts with a DDrum trigger on it. That way I at least have the option of mic'ing it, and I'll be able to play more naturally.

Is the D drum trigger rim sensitive? can it pick up rim hits on a real snare??

a lot of the lastest virtual drum software is optimized for rim sensitivity so you'd want to make sure you take advantage of that...

[Tibbon]

Originally Posted by captain54

Is the D drum trigger rim sensitive? can it pick up rim hits on a real snare??

a lot of the lastest virtual drum software is optimized for rim sensitivity so you'd want to make sure you take advantage of that...

I'm pretty sure they do. I had one of the PD-120's, and they are nice, but just still didn't feel quite right. Wouldn't be opposed to having one on the kit, just need to have a 'real' snare too.

[manning1]

tibbon...
dunno if your aware of this but you can make a drum trigger pad for about a buck.
ive made loads of em.
all you need then is a brain to generate the midi signals.
(eg alesis ones you sometimes see used cheap.)
if you have further interest how to make trigger pads dirt cheap....shout and i'll post back. its real easy.

[ddanyboy]

i have a shitty old drumset id like to use for triggering.
please tell me more about that.

If its a cheap and simple thing to do (never done much electronics) let me know please!

[manning1]

dany....
get little piezo discs from a electronic supply house....
shown in this link...http://www.electronicdrums.com/pads/pads2.htm
(pivc in step 3....).....wire the piezo to a qtr inch male jack.
glue vinyl tile either side of piezo to enclose it and your done.
there are many fancier ways also.
just google diy piezo drum trigger. peace.
ps...experiment with different materials to enclose piezo like soft rummer/tile
various sorts etc. ive even made kik piezo triggers.

[elegentdrum]

I have been a drummer for 35 years. and have 10K in both my acustic and electronic drum kit. Also currently im in process of purchasing a computer for the electronic drums.

With electronic drums, we are just ending phase 2, and entering phase three of whats out there. 1, was the alesis D4 and SR16, 1992. Phase 2 was the TD-20 and mesh heads about year 2002. Soon begins the first round of actual usable trigger that are responcive, starting a year from now, electronic drums will evolve significantly.

First off. the triggers avialable on the market, and that you can use yourself all basically suck. If you get anything other than the top of the line roland trigger, they dont respond well enough, and use what I would consider to be a very light velocity profile. The Roland trigger require less trigger sencing time, and with a low gain, and have usefull musical information at medium loud drum strikes.

I use a mixture of trigger brands. I like Roland top end stuff for the snare, kick, hats, and cymbals. The visulite ride is not bad because its larger, and very sensitive at mid lite ranges, and can choke a bit faster, but lacks the position sensitivity of the roland ride. I use hart toms because they come in 4 sizes instead of 2. and they look cool in chrome. Three new triggering technologies were anounced at namm this year. First Trick drums came out with a laser bassed kick drum trigger that attaches to the pedal. Second, Ziljian came up with a funky drilled set of cymbals with an integrated pizio mik that works like a trigger. and last but not least, Aquarian just came out with drum head that are actualy trigger using a new film technology that is very responcive, and for the first time allow the same device both make sound, and be a trigger. All three will be avalavle within a few months.

When it comes to drum brains. Only the TD-20 and any roland brain newer thats come out since has trigger inputs with the most options. the other brands of trigger inputs dont have nearly the options for trigger control as the top end roland stuff. TD-20 is about the only game in town to get a full kit working right. However, superior drummer software is adressing that issue with extra controls ont he triggers for use the inputs like the alesis units.

Once you get midi information from the drum trigger, either the drum brain, the computer, or both can be your sound source.

The real problem with the entire concept is latency. If a drum sound hits your ears much later than 4.5 ms(miliseconds) than after you hit the drum, then it does not feel right. With the trigger sensors needing 2 to 3 ms to decide how hard they were hit well, this leave another 2 ms+-0.5 to do all of the audio processing including converting the drum brains audio to digital, geting digital audio from BFD2(what I use) EQ, compress, mix, and reverb the audio, and convert back to anilog.......all in that 2 ms.

To get this done Im going with a PC audiolabs RokBox, an SSL alphalink and MX-4 card, Lexicon PCM plugin, .....and whala, in a few weeks I should be able to correctly mix, and time align every sound source from both and electronic or acoustic kit with any mixture I please. All in about 3.5 ms!

but now I will have $28,000 into my drum kit(s) lol


After all that, here is my big point. if you already have an acoustic kit, you better off buying mics and preamps than getting into electronic drums if you want good results, unless you realy get a full good electronic drum kit. If you really want ot try to do this on the cheap, then look at the DYI section of Vdrums.com.

Also, if you just want to gain a full electronic drum kit fast, without hastle and alot of cash, than a trapkat is a decent option. they go for about 1K, and eliminate the trigger issues by converting right to midi from the pads, but its not the easiest to use, and has no sounds of it's own and it does not feel like a real drum set, its just a bunch of area trigger (good natural rubber ones) one a flat surface with edges.

[skramnor]

I know this is an old thread but I would like to add my take for people that may find it later like i did.

I have a decent drum set but a no so decent room to record them in. Mics, Pre-amps, high end interface, room treatment etc can all add up to plenty of money. I have spent many years fighting the bad sound and trying to get what I can out of my small room. I found a very very simple solution though!

I record my drums using a few inexpensive mics. One on the kick, one on the snare, 1 close on hi-hats, 1 close on ride and one single mono over head. I use Reaper software to track each mic. After the drums have been recorded, I can assign a gate to each track. Reaper has one included in the bundle that allows routing of the audio to a MIDI channel. Basically this converts audio hits (ones above the gate threshold, to trigger a Virtual Instrument. I use EZ Drummer but I have also use the FREE "My Drum Set Rocks" Virtual Instrument. You need to find out which MIDI channel the snare sounds are on and assign the Snare track's gate to rout to that channel. You can also turn off the original drum sound by turning off the master output for that track. Enough natural drum sound comes from the mono overhead. This helps keep a more natural dynamic sound.

The fun part is that I can literally mic my desk surface, hit it with my finger, triggering the process and it comes out as a kick drum. Makes finger drumming easy!

You can find tutorials on the Reaper website and also on YouTube.

You can also use a program called Drumagogg but that costs more than the FREE Reaper/Mydrumsetrocks combo.