Pondering upgrade from G4 867.........help

[Mike H]

I am running HD2, Pro Tools 5.3 and Mac OS 9.2 on a Mac G4 867 (PCI cards).

I am considering upgrading to OS 10.4.6 and PT 7.2.

I do essentially 100% hardware processing. I outboard process, analog sum, run to tape, then come back into Pro Tools to print the final mix. So there is very little load on the computer; it is basically for tracking, editing, storage. Occasionally I will use some plug-ins.

It is not clear to me if I need to upgrade my computer to go to PT 7.2. Digidesign says I need a "1GHz G4 FW800" minimum, but others tell me my G4 867 will work fine. Maybe Digi's recommendation is based on using a lot of plug-ins.

Questions:

1. Can I keep my G4 867 and upgrade to PT 7.2, if I run very few plug-ins? Or is OS 10.4.6 too much for it?

2. If I have to upgrade my computer, I am looking at a refurbished dual G5 PCI-X computer so I can keep using my HD2 PCI cards for a while longer. Some guys at the DUC say go with a G5 dual 2.0, since the dual 2.3 and 2.7 computers have cooling problems. Correct?

3. Better just to do nothing and wait until next year until the Apple/Intel models are debugged, then convert to new PCI-e cards and get a new model? (Expensive step!).

4. I am using external ETA drives for backing up my Pro Tools files. If my 867 dies suddenly, will I be able to use the external ETA drives with a new computer to load my PT files? (I note that newer computers use SATA drives).

Any guidance would be appreciated!

[Geert van den Berg]

Your G4 can certainly run OS X 10.4.6. Some things will appear to go slower while others go faster, OS X is optimized in a different way...

If you have enough diskspace then I would suggest you make a dual boot system, so you can always go back to your old system in case it won't run smooth. I'm not sure if it's still possible, but in the beginnning of OS X, you could even install OS X on top of OS 9, but I wouldn't do that, as it will clutter the disk and make it look like a mess with systemfiles from both OS's. Also it will make learning the file structure of OS X harder.

Even if you'd do a complete switch to a new computer I'd advise to partition the system disk in 2 or 3 and have the main OS X cloned to the second partition, this can be handy when you're installing new stuff on the main partition, which doesn't work out as you planned. And booting between OS's is a breeze, as is booting between OS9 and X.

I am not sure how PT7.2 will run on your machine, because I am not running it yet and also not on a G4, but I think that will work as well. Those 200mHz aren't going to make such a large difference, and as you said, you won't be using a lot of plugins and virtual instruments.

I would buy the software and just install it, you'd have to purchase it anyway if you'd upgrade your computer. The only drawback would be that you'd have to purchase OS X as well, but if you intend to keep the G4 as an extra machine, then you might want to have OS X on it anyway.

[chrisp2u]

I'd suggest saving up for one of the newer machines and just make the full on jump to OSX from OS9 without bothering with the dual-boot stuff. I haven't booted into OS9 in 2 years... and I'm typically one that is slow to adapt. Getting one of the G5's is an option (I went from a 1.4Ghz G4 to a refurbished Dual 2.0 G5 about a year ago), but at this point I'd say save for the next rev of the current Intel's and you'll get way more life and performance out of it. I was running PT7 on my G4 in Panther and it ran, but it's a world of difference on my dual G5 and I still feel like it could be better performance-wise.

If your ATA drives are in an external FW (suggested) or USB drive enclosure, you can mount them up no prob.
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[Mike H]

Originally Posted by chrisp2u

I'd suggest saving up for one of the newer machines and just make the full on jump to OSX from OS9 without bothering with the dual-boot stuff. I haven't booted into OS9 in 2 years... and I'm typically one that is slow to adapt. Getting one of the G5's is an option (I went from a 1.4Ghz G4 to a refurbished Dual 2.0 G5 about a year ago), but at this point I'd say save for the next rev of the current Intel's and you'll get way more life and performance out of it. I was running PT7 on my G4 in Panther and it ran, but it's a world of difference on my dual G5 and I still feel like it could be better performance-wise.

If your ATA drives are in an external FW (suggested) or USB drive enclosure, you can mount them up no prob.
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c

I'm leaning that way. I don't see any reason I have to change right now. Since I am processing OTB (versus plug-ins), I am told the latency correction in PT 7 is not really a benefit to me. The other features are nice, but no must-have-right-now.

I'm just dreading the cost to go away from the old PCI cards. If I read the Digi exchange program correctly, it will cost me 3995 to exchange HD2 PCI to HD2 Accel for PCIe..............plus the cost of the new Mac, of course. Man, I sure hope the Accel cards don't have to be upgraded to something else any time soon!

Thanks for the info on the external IDE drives. Yes, they are in Firewire docking stations. So, they will enable me to load my PT files onto the new computer.......great.

[perky b]

I'd ordinarily not chime in- but i had that machine for a few years and it was loud and slow and always seemed sluggish to me whether with Logic, PT Le or DP- and it crashed more than any other Mac I'd owned (lots since 1986)-

I upgraded to a 2.7 when they were discontinued- and not only is it very reliable and fast- it rocks- and from what I gather it is a slow machine compared to the new ones- I would totally encourage you to upgrade to a new machine- get extra Ram and some SATA drives at MacGurus and you will seriously feel like hurling the 867 into the sea- when I upgraded one Mac guy said- "Wow- the 867- that's Apple's Ford Pinto"-

Go for it- my 2 cents-

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by perky b

I'd ordinarily not chime in- but i had that machine for a few years and it was loud and slow and always seemed sluggish to me whether with Logic, PT Le or DP- and it crashed more than any other Mac I'd owned (lots since 1986)-

I upgraded to a 2.7 when they were discontinued- and not only is it very reliable and fast- it rocks- and from what I gather it is a slow machine compared to the new ones- I would totally encourage you to upgrade to a new machine- get extra Ram and some SATA drives at MacGurus and you will seriously feel like hurling the 867 into the sea- when I upgraded one Mac guy said- "Wow- the 867- that's Apple's Ford Pinto"-

Go for it- my 2 cents-

Interestingly, some of the guys at the Digi forum are recommending that I go with a refurbished dual G5. Their advice is based on this logic:

1. The dual G5 will be plenty of horsepower for me with 100% outboard processing
2. It will get me to PT 7.2
3. This will save the 4K to go to the Accel cards, plus be cheaper than a new MacIntel
4. This should last me until Digi comes out with the next generation of card (whatever that will look like), so I can hopefully skip the Accel cards altogether.

Darnit, this is not as easy as I had hoped.

[perky b]

The 2.7 is an awesome machine-

[Mike H]

well, I went with a refurbished G5 2.7 from Apple.

This avoids the cost of switching to Accel cards, gets me to PT 7.2, and gives me more horsepower that I will ever need.

I don't see why this won't last me for years...............and who knows what will be happening then with Digi and Apple.

Thanks for the help.

[perky b]

I also really had a fabulous experience buying extra RAM and a couple of external SATA drives from MacGurus- which seems to be a mom and pop deal who test the drives/RAM, etc- and who are really knowledgeable and seemed to have good prices- and also who are smart about which drives work best for audio- etc----this thing will seem like a Ferrari compared to the Pinto- especially if you add RAM- good for you!

[chrisp2u]

Originally Posted by Mike H

well, I went with a refurbished G5 2.7 from Apple.

This avoids the cost of switching to Accel cards, gets me to PT 7.2, and gives me more horsepower that I will ever need.

I don't see why this won't last me for years...............and who knows what will be happening then with Digi and Apple.

Thanks for the help.

Yeah, that should be good... I had PTLE (ie. host based) in my head regarding my original response for some reason even though you mentioned the HD thing. Since all you're heavy lifting is done outboard with the HD stuff, you should be able to get a few years or more out of a 2.7 G5 no prob I would think.

Good luck with it!
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[Mike H]

I'm also looking at trying a Firmtek external enclosure for SATA drives:
http://firmtek.stores.yahoo.net/sata2even4.html

It includes a PCI card for four drives. I like the idea of having the data drives out of the computer in a well cooled enclosure. A four bay enclosure would let me have more storage than I really need, and I wouldn't have to hassle with Firewire to backup data. Looks pretty slick.

Any gearslutz tried these?
Several guys at the DUC are happy with theirs.