Prelim Haswell Benchmarks
Old 19th April 2013
  #31
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its more to do with power states we think.
when ivy came out we had the same issue but were able to tame it in the bios
this time will have to wait for a bios update.
not to mention we had to do a decent amount of voltage tweaking to get it semi stable OCed.
removing the factory lid voids warranty. while I a don't care about it with the Engineering sample its rather moot (other than finding out if that's one of the potential issues) I am not about to go modding every haswell and void warranty.

but yeah I may play with it as well. really need to wait on the updated bios first.
Old 19th April 2013
  #32
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Hmm, yeah, if Intel changed things with Haswell wrt core (and package?) C states compared to Sandy/Ivy which needs new BIOS support then that might well explain it.

Might be informative to check what's happening C-state-wise using Throttlestop (although dunno if it works with Haswell).
Old 26th April 2013
  #33
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Thank you
Old 27th April 2013
  #34
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As a hobbyist, I lurk here more than I post, learning from all the great folks here. I do find great interest in this thread and felt the need to post. Even as a hobbyist, I have reached the limitations of my good ole Q6600 with plugin heavy projects. (Obviously, I don't upgrade frequently) I know I can't go wrong with a 3930k but with the surprising results here with the 4770k, would going the Haswell route suffice? I have no idea what the new 1150 mobo's will cost but it looks as if the 4770k will be priced in the ballpark of the 3770k. I understand that the 3930k will out perform the 4770k but I'm looking at "best bang for the buck" scenario. I guess the kicker is the price of a good lga 1150 mobo.
Old 29th April 2013
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soulranger View Post
As a hobbyist, I lurk here more than I post, learning from all the great folks here. I do find great interest in this thread and felt the need to post. Even as a hobbyist, I have reached the limitations of my good ole Q6600 with plugin heavy projects. (Obviously, I don't upgrade frequently) I know I can't go wrong with a 3930k but with the surprising results here with the 4770k, would going the Haswell route suffice? I have no idea what the new 1150 mobo's will cost but it looks as if the 4770k will be priced in the ballpark of the 3770k. I understand that the 3930k will out perform the 4770k but I'm looking at "best bang for the buck" scenario. I guess the kicker is the price of a good lga 1150 mobo.
Same here.

Wondering if I should wait a few months, or just go with the 3770k for my next build.

Am willing to wait another 3 months or so if it means 10-20% improvement at roughly the same price.
Old 30th April 2013
  #36
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Looks like Sandy E is still the one to beat, no?
Old 30th April 2013
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zephonic View Post
Looks like Sandy E is still the one to beat, no?
Head to head I would say yes. 3930k beats 4770k. But if the heat issues are resolved with a bios update, it may be possible that the 4770k could rival the 3930k (stock) with some modest overclocking. If the 1150 mobo's are priced near the 1155's, this could result in saving some ca$h. If I did this for a living, I would go with the 3930k no questions.
Old 3rd May 2013
  #38
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Still can't find any reason to upgrade from Q6600. Together with UAD2 quad I rarely need more. Even with 88.2 projects. Though I rarely use softsynths or samplers...
Old 7th May 2013
  #39
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Old 7th May 2013
  #40
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Sweet.
Old 7th May 2013
  #41
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Only one more month...
Old 10th May 2013
  #42
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A little more info...
Apparently Haswell stuff can be ordered online at This Site in China>

If my Yuan conversion calculations are correct, the ASUS Z87 Sabertooth is selling for around $320 USD and the 4770k chip is selling for around $368 USD????. The site is in Chinese of course and a bit convoluted.

At the moment I am leaning on waiting for the 4770k for my upgrade (based on the very surprising benchmarks) vs the 3930k unless Scott or someone else knowledgeable thinks otherwise.
Old 10th May 2013
  #43
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My 3930k from ADK, OC'ed, is a friggin beast. I have made Nebula my bitch with this one.

While I am at it, a shout out to ADK. I had two minor issues that they helped me clear up, remotely. It was very cool! Great products, great support.
Old 11th May 2013
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soulranger View Post
A little more info...
Apparently Haswell stuff can be ordered online at This Site in China>

If my Yuan conversion calculations are correct, the ASUS Z87 Sabertooth is selling for around $320 USD and the 4770k chip is selling for around $368 USD????. The site is in Chinese of course and a bit convoluted.

At the moment I am leaning on waiting for the 4770k for my upgrade (based on the very surprising benchmarks) vs the 3930k unless Scott or someone else knowledgeable thinks otherwise.
Haswell has not been released yet, I have no clue why anyone would pay extra to buy prerelease samples which will be stuffed with issues instead of decent warranty.
Old 11th May 2013
  #45
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As far as the Chinese site goes, I couldn't tell if they were taking orders pre-release or actually selling pre-release samples. This was the first time I saw anything about the ASUS Z87 Sabertooth board however. Just posting as a curious reference, I would hope no one would try to purchase anything until things are officially released.

As far as the 3930, I know it's a beast and would be incredible but if the 4770k was close, it could save my budget a couple hundred bucks.


Sent from my DROID BIONIC
Old 11th May 2013
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TranscendingM View Post
My 3930k from ADK, OC'ed, is a friggin beast. I have made Nebula my bitch with this one.

While I am at it, a shout out to ADK. I had two minor issues that they helped me clear up, remotely. It was very cool! Great products, great support.


thank you!

Scott
ADK
Old 14th May 2013
  #47
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Since my skills related to this data are quite weak, is there anything in these benchies that would account for the reason why the 4770k did so well vs the 3770k in DAW performance?
Old 14th May 2013
  #48
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Originally Posted by matucha View Post
Though I rarely use softsynths
that's why :-)

Man.. I have an 3930K now. Softsynths pose no problems. But when I record from my external sound modules, or record just audio... i think the CPU is still on 1% lol.
Old 14th May 2013
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soulranger View Post


Since my skills related to this data are quite weak, is there anything in these benchies that would account for the reason why the 4770k did so well vs the 3770k in DAW performance?
You can see that benchmarks from Cinebench and below the Haswell scores better. But indeed generally it is not a winner on all levels.
Old 14th May 2013
  #50
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also none of these tests are real world tests in fact pretty much useless
Old 14th May 2013
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcschild View Post
also none of these tests are real world tests in fact pretty much useless
That's what I figured...I guess the only true benchmark test of these processors in relation to true DAW performance is the DAW benchmark test demonstrated here in Scott's original post. Curiosity just gets the best of me as to why the 4770k does so much better with audio when everything I read says that it's just marginally better than the 3770K in general performance. Most articles deal with the power consumption and the better GPU.

After all of this deliberation and debate I'll probably end up with the damn 3930k after all
Old 15th May 2013
  #52
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Well it wouldn't be the newer floating point/AVX2 features that lead to the theoretical speedups, support for that won't show up in our plugins & software immediately.

However the problem with ANY of those benchmarks is they're largely bound by computational limits, system bandwidth, or memory & core scheduling etc. Audio workloads balance i/o tasks to peripherals (serving your audio buffer and possibly dsp cards) and some degree of disk access along with the computational limits being stressed above.

Ie, I can hit my cores 100% across any machine when rendering in After Effects, Softimage/Mental Ray, Maya/Renderman etc... These tasks are largely bound by the Cache sizes in a cpu design (which is why Xeons with larger caches still work well for this), and how well a core design schedules heavy computational loads. Ie, the tasks stay largely on-die and in-cache, much like ALL of the benchmarks listed above with a possible exception of the media encoder (which has to track data across larger blocks of time than will fit into a cpu cache). So Cinebench sort of loosely correlates to some of thses workloads...

However Audio is a *streaming data* as well as computational task, which is why we spend time looking for bottlenecks in the i/o end as well. For CPU-limits I typically find my machines run Logic, Cubase, Ableton etc to more like 70-90% of 'theoretical peak' when used at reasonable latencies (i'm ignoring hyperthreading which varies a lot more to simplify my example). This is assuming I'm using enough 'small' plugins to get a highly distributed load too! Each application has its own 'core loading' issues it seems....and a need to balance that with the GUI, user interaction and midi/timecode 'engines' in the code.

Metrics like measuring DPC Latency and watching i/o transactions help identify issues when bottlenecks exist. But quantifying i/o transaction load otherwise is a more difficult task which in no way correlates to running SuperPi, wPrime & Photoshop benchmarks. I'd wait for more results from jschild & DAW plus imo...

Also the platform for the 3930k has other benefits, such as additional PCIe lanes eh...
Old 15th May 2013
  #53
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@valis....Thanks so much for that detailed response ( some of it was a bit over my head but I'm learning)
Old 15th May 2013
  #54
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It's ok I should probably aim for more brevity anyway =]
Old 15th May 2013
  #55
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPhoenix View Post
that's why :-)

Man.. I have an 3930K now. Softsynths pose no problems. But when I record from my external sound modules, or record just audio... i think the CPU is still on 1% lol.
Man, tell me about it. The three-year-old PC in my sig has held up for me wonderfully until just the past two weeks when I did my first-ever song entirely using soft synths. Oh brother, I was freezing tracks left and right.

If I end up doing more completely ITB projects I might be due for an upgrade.
Old 16th May 2013
  #56
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Is it June yet?
Old 31st May 2013
  #57
so will it be worth it to wait for these or is it safe to go for a 3770k or 3820?
Old 31st May 2013
  #58
Hehe, Scott got a name check for this thread (or his work on which it's based) in the latest Sound on Sound... the PC Notes article near the end.

Old 31st May 2013
  #59
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Originally Posted by UltimateOutsider View Post
Hehe, Scott got a name check for this thread (or his work on which it's based) in the latest Sound on Sound... the PC Notes article near the end.

LOL to quote a movie "hey I am somebody now!"

is it online or just in the mag?
thanks to the author!

in a few days I will have the retail versions to see if this heat issue is there.
normally by now I would have this system up for sale but I am treading carefully with this
and it might be the first system in a very long time where we don't offer an overclocked version. (last one was intels "Preshot") (Prescott)
same issues massive heat stock hitting thermal shut downs on burn in.

Scott
ADk
Old 31st May 2013
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcschild View Post
LOL to quote a movie "hey I am somebody now!"

is it online or just in the mag?
It's online!
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