Space Designer vs. Altiverb

Rab · 23rd October 2003

Anyone else A/B'd these yet? I've been a bit of an Altiverb junkie for a while now, but first impressions of Emagic's convolution 'verb are very good.

jbuntz · 24th October 2003

How much sonic difference is there between all the impulse software? especally if they use the same impulses.... I can't imagine much difference with the exception of bit depth and tweakability.

speerchucker · 27th October 2003

I agree, how different can they be? -until we have enough dsp power that these reverbs can utilize impluses from multiple velocity-level sources.

I was really excited about Alitverb, but now that I have it I very rarely use it. It can be pretty on strings, but it tends to suck the life out of many tracks. Too one-dimensional. A real plate kicks the butt out of the EMT impulse, and my TC 6000 tends to sound miles better on lead vocals.

Given a choice between the two mentioned, i'd go with Altiverb, since Emagic likes to make things that ONLY work within logic. Why be so limited?

kosi · 27th October 2003

Both sound very good. I compared the Logic Quantec Yardstickemulation with my real one and was really (really) impressed.
The outboard was more 3 dimensional, but it's getting pretty close.
Compare it to an Lexiverb or similar: big difference.
The Altiverb sounded also very good, they have a lot more real acoustic IRs on their homepage, so most of the time, I work with these.
But that's pretty seldom, cause they both eat so much of G4 cpu power, that my mouse reacts like drunk and thats really too bad, so I'll buy the stuff, when I have an G5.

cheers, kosi

robdarling · 27th October 2003

as convolution engines, they don't seem that different. But in use, Space Designer has ten times the functionality. It has the tone of a convolution, but with all the envelope shaping funtions of a digital reverb. It is a much more flexible tool.

kosi · 27th October 2003

yep, that's right. The question is: do you need so many parameters ? Of course, it's nice, but me and the pretty rest of all into the activemusicmakingprogressinvolved I know are using after a while a small setup of Rooms, Halls and other Spaces, that will hardly change...

I think, I'm too lazy (ignorant) here

I just finished a mix, where I was using TC Megaverb while editing and for the final version, I replaced it with space designer. But after working thereon for quite a while, and getting used to the sound of the TC (which I really not like) I have to admit, that in the mix the difference wasn't that big...

Maybe I should do some Celine Dion stuff

kosi

faeflora · 28th October 2003

Why should I care if it can do more things? I thought this was about how good things sound rather than bragging about "feature sets"

I DOUBT all convolution engines are the same. If so, then all reverbs should sound the same, all DAWs etc, everything should sound the same! If they're coded differently they WILL sound different. It's like saying "all class AB amplifiers sound the same". They may have simmilar technology but that doesn't mean shit!

Oh wait, they don't look alike so of course they sound different! Duh! Use your ****ing ears.

robdarling · 29th October 2003

good lord guys- its not like having a simple adsr is going to ruin your life. if you were in a room recording a song, you'd move the mic back and forth to get your room tone to match the time and pitch of your song. having some envelope control and eq in the convolution just makes the samples you have a million times more flexible.

faeflora · 29th October 2003

Sorry for being pissy.

robdarling · 29th October 2003

no problem, i know that when you're at home by yourself, it is easy to just let your words fall into whatever mood your'e in without the presence of another person to keep you in check. thanks for the apology. this board is the last bastion of decency in the world of audio online.

BevvyB · 31st October 2003

I like the Space Designer

And now my demo period has expired

I'm really pissed off

mac black · 3rd November 2003

Space d is way too expensive and should be included in logic.
I've been using Macs since I can remember myself (apple IIC) but I’ve come to realise that the future holds more and more problems, from osx not being compatible to os9.x to charging for plugins that should come free for logic (being MAC only). I think we can expect that the next upgrade (logic 7.0) will cost us over a £1000. Apple are no better then drug dealers.
That’s my rant for today
dfegad

speerchucker · 3rd November 2003

Mac Black, a little perspective is in order:

First, Logic Platinum is a phenomenal value considering what you get.

Second a good software reverb will currently cost you at LEAST $800 street (Altiverb, Reverb One..)

If you want things cheap, or free, stick with the vst world, but then accept the sonic results.

My only gripe with Emagic (and its a big one) is that they make all their synths and the ESX proprietary. Yes, there are work-arounds, but they aren't seemless and are a major PITA to deal with.

SureShotStudio · 3rd November 2003

Quote:

I DOUBT all convolution engines are the same. If so, then all reverbs should sound the same, all DAWs etc, everything should sound the same! If they're coded differently they WILL sound different. It's like saying "all class AB amplifiers sound the same". They may have simmilar technology but that doesn't mean shit!

hello,

i'd like to point out that in essence all convolution engines will sound the same if they use the same impulse response, it's just the nature of the proces. excluding factors like impulse response shaping like that space desinger does. I should know, cos my dsp teacher is one of the guys from Audio Ease.

little tip there's a freeware VST convolution plug called SIR it's got quite a bit of latency but that's not a problem in Nuendo 2.0 and it sounds great! considering it's price!!!! and it's got some nice envelope shaping tools and a built in fft EQ

you can get it here
http://home.t-online.de/home/5200737...ndex_plug.html

and you can get some great IR's here
http://noisevault.com/

greets thomas

mac black · 6th November 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by speerchucker
Mac Black, a little perspective is in order:

First, Logic Platinum is a phenomenal value considering what you get.

Second a good software reverb will currently cost you at LEAST $800 street (Altiverb, Reverb One..)

If you want things cheap, or free, stick with the vst world, but then accept the sonic results.

My only gripe with Emagic (and its a big one) is that they make all their synths and the ESX proprietary. Yes, there are work-arounds, but they aren't seemless and are a major PITA to deal with.

I am in the vst world and i'll bet you wouldnt be able to tell the difference

My moan is about the fact that although logic is wicked and quite cheap(well its the most expensive soft sequencer actually) MACs are very expensive and logic is a mac only software so you see where my "freebee" complain is directed at?is

Jam · 6th November 2003

Mac Black

We all have the ultimate sanction in any free market you can buy or not buy.
I for one am very happy with my copy of Logic and my Mac and I paid what I felt it was worth.
If there is a cheaper/better alternative I am always happy to find out more about it. I guess what I'm saying is criticise but criticise constructively.

Jam

23rd October 2003	#1
Rab Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2003 Location: London Posts: 532 Thread Starter	Space Designer vs. Altiverb Anyone else A/B'd these yet? I've been a bit of an Altiverb junkie for a while now, but first impressions of Emagic's convolution 'verb are very good. __________________ I don't live for gear.

31st October 2003	#11
BevvyB Mindreader Joined: Jun 2002 Location: London Posts: 2,604	I like the Space Designer And now my demo period has expired I'm really pissed off __________________ Julian Moore \| Georgia Wonder \| 'Made In Nevada' Project - we're recording our next album in a music store

3rd November 2003	#12
mac black Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2003 Location: london Posts: 2,792 2 Reviews written	Space d is way too expensive and should be included in logic. I've been using Macs since I can remember myself (apple IIC) but I’ve come to realise that the future holds more and more problems, from osx not being compatible to os9.x to charging for plugins that should come free for logic (being MAC only). I think we can expect that the next upgrade (logic 7.0) will cost us over a £1000. Apple are no better then drug dealers. That’s my rant for today dfegad __________________ "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil" ... - Thomas Mann

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24th October 2003	#2
jbuntz Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,716	How much sonic difference is there between all the impulse software? especally if they use the same impulses.... I can't imagine much difference with the exception of bit depth and tweakability.

27th October 2003	#3
speerchucker Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2002 Location: Suffern, NY Posts: 509	I agree, how different can they be? -until we have enough dsp power that these reverbs can utilize impluses from multiple velocity-level sources. I was really excited about Alitverb, but now that I have it I very rarely use it. It can be pretty on strings, but it tends to suck the life out of many tracks. Too one-dimensional. A real plate kicks the butt out of the EMT impulse, and my TC 6000 tends to sound miles better on lead vocals. Given a choice between the two mentioned, i'd go with Altiverb, since Emagic likes to make things that ONLY work within logic. Why be so limited?

27th October 2003	#4
kosi Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Berlin Posts: 941	Both sound very good. I compared the Logic Quantec Yardstickemulation with my real one and was really (really) impressed. The outboard was more 3 dimensional, but it's getting pretty close. Compare it to an Lexiverb or similar: big difference. The Altiverb sounded also very good, they have a lot more real acoustic IRs on their homepage, so most of the time, I work with these. But that's pretty seldom, cause they both eat so much of G4 cpu power, that my mouse reacts like drunk and thats really too bad, so I'll buy the stuff, when I have an G5. cheers, kosi

27th October 2003	#5
robdarling Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Richland, WA Posts: 790	as convolution engines, they don't seem that different. But in use, Space Designer has ten times the functionality. It has the tone of a convolution, but with all the envelope shaping funtions of a digital reverb. It is a much more flexible tool.

28th October 2003	#7
faeflora Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2002 Location: washington dc Posts: 2,022	Why should I care if it can do more things? I thought this was about how good things sound rather than bragging about "feature sets" I DOUBT all convolution engines are the same. If so, then all reverbs should sound the same, all DAWs etc, everything should sound the same! If they're coded differently they WILL sound different. It's like saying "all class AB amplifiers sound the same". They may have simmilar technology but that doesn't mean shit! Oh wait, they don't look alike so of course they sound different! Duh! Use your ****ing ears.

29th October 2003	#8
robdarling Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Richland, WA Posts: 790	good lord guys- its not like having a simple adsr is going to ruin your life. if you were in a room recording a song, you'd move the mic back and forth to get your room tone to match the time and pitch of your song. having some envelope control and eq in the convolution just makes the samples you have a million times more flexible.

6th November 2003	#16
Jam Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2003 Location: South East England Posts: 1,463	Mac Black We all have the ultimate sanction in any free market you can buy or not buy. I for one am very happy with my copy of Logic and my Mac and I paid what I felt it was worth. If there is a cheaper/better alternative I am always happy to find out more about it. I guess what I'm saying is criticise but criticise constructively. Jam