New Mac Mini or new iMac for my electronic music studio?

[donato]

And even if Logic were never updated again and he wanted to quit using Logic, it's not like there's no other DAWs available for mac. What a bitter poster.

[grasspike]

Originally Posted by donato

And even if Logic were never updated again and he wanted to quit using Logic, it's not like there's no other DAWs available for mac. What a bitter poster.

Apple killed my inner child

[sirdss]

Ok...I'm staying with Logic regardless of what Apple did with Final Cut. Getting back to the subject at hand.

New iMac or new Mac Mini?

[AJ Reynolds]

I got the 2011 Mac mini server. Slate VTM is the only plugin that it really struggles with. But apart from that it can handle everything I throw at it.

[tvsky]

Originally Posted by NoVi

Been looking for an alternative to my aging Mac Pro. iMac i7 looks attractive, but:

Hmmm, from this benchmark:

Mac Benchmarks - Geekbench Browser

differences between Mac Pro 2008 and Mac Mini 2012 do not seem to be very shocking ....

- what can one expect from the built in graphics, I need to connect 2 monitors with 1920 * 1280 resolution. Is that possible with the Mac mini? And how does it work, I gues you need a Thunderbolt interface to connect 2 monitors to?

you can use your thunderbolt connection as a display port interface (just a simple adapter needed) or you can get a hdmi splitter which will let you run 2 monitors off the single HDMI port . You can run 3 monitors if you run both of these options

- 16 Gb is not a lot of internal memory, been thinking about upgrading my MacPro early 2008 from 16 to 32 Gb.

the chipset will support 32gb when 16gb dimms are avaliable and affordable . that is your limitation at the moment .

- I'll need an external disk cabinet to host ca 4 3,5" sATA drives, probably connect it to Thunderbolt too ...

thunderbolt is there and waiting . you could also run a nas box via gig ethernet which would be very quick.

[Ben F]

Originally Posted by donato

And even if Logic were never updated again and he wanted to quit using Logic, it's not like there's no other DAWs available for mac. What a bitter poster.

But the poster is correct in what he or she says.

Loads of professionals were burnt with Final Cut Pro X and will never go Mac again. Apple are slowly abandoning professionals for prosumer. That's the reality.

[Analog Prophet]

Originally Posted by Ben F

But the poster is correct in what he or she says.

Loads of professionals were burnt with Final Cut Pro X and will never go Mac again. Apple are slowly abandoning professionals for prosumer. That's the reality.

I'm a BIG Apple fan (have 8 Macs in the family, 3 Apple TVs, iPads, IPhones, routers etc etc - everything Apple. PC is a curse word to me), almost religious Apple. But unfortunate Im afraid that you might be right. My world is shaking . Really hope Logic won't follow Final Cut to the grave.

[Reptil]

moved to "music computers"

I'd say, get the mac mini, and a seperate screen. put the computer in a ventilated 19" rack with an external drive.

[Roger Starr]

Originally Posted by Analog Prophet

Nor Logic or Apogee does support PC so that is not an option in this thread, don't you know that? And please, no PC vs Mac discussion here, it's so pathetic.

No, the guy is right. It's so easy to build a complete rock solid Hackingtosh on that very same PC and there you go running Logic and Apogee rock solid with more power then currently availble on original Macs and again, rock solid.

RGH

[skira]

Originally Posted by hollandturbine

The problem with the Mac Mini is that although adding a new one to your own screen every once in a while has the potential to be more economical in the long term the specifications of the Mac Mini are always somewhat limited in comparison to the all-in-one i-Mac

"Always somewhat limited" in what specific ways related to music making?

The mini lets you add your own inexpensively-sourced RAM while the 21" iMac has to be pre-purchased with either 8Gb or 16Gb RAM (an expensive $200 for an extra 8Gb RAM). The mini has Firewire, while the iMac does not. The mini can accommodate a 2nd internal SSD or 2.5" HDD (with a $40 installation kit.) Apple offers a 256Gb SSD option, while the only SSD-only option for the iMac is a $1300 768Gb SSD that you can only get if you are already buying one of the 27" iMacs (which start at $1800).

The main advantages to the iMac are the graphics card (not necessarily important for music studio purposes) and the screen+webcam.

[draven5]

As crazy as he sounds he has valid points.

[skira]

Originally Posted by seen-da-sizer

It is not just the screen. The iMac comes complete with built-in camera, microphone, keyboard and mouse. And they are good screens. The only drawback is when the unit breaks, you have to replace everything. BTW, I do currently use an older Mac Mini and I am still happy. Once that goes, I will go with iMac.

For me it's the opposite. Within a couple of weeks I'm getting an i7 mini for roughly half the cost of an i7 iMac, while giving me 80% of the speed. With the savings I'll fill it with RAM, get an external Blu-Ray drive and a 27" monitor that's better than Apple's $999 Cinema Display (better color gamut, USB3 in the hub compared to Apple's USB2). If Apple comes out with a compelling Mac Pro update/replacement in the near future (or even a substantially improved mini) I can easily sell the mini with much cheaper shipping if I put it on ebay.

[skira]

Originally Posted by Ben F

But the poster is correct in what he or she says.

Loads of professionals were burnt with Final Cut Pro X and will never go Mac again.

That's a canard. FCPX was missing a number of features when it came out (like multicam support) but in subsequent months Apple added in most missing features. In most ways it is a superior product, albeit with a different workflow to learn. A few vocal pros grumbled but not "loads." And even those few who went to Avid or Adobe didn't necessarily dump their Macs in order to do so. Some perspective please.

[plaid_emu]

Originally Posted by skira

The mini lets you add your own inexpensively-sourced RAM while the 21" iMac has to be pre-purchased with either 8Gb or 16Gb RAM (an expensive $200 for an extra 8Gb RAM). The mini has Firewire, while the iMac does not. The mini can accommodate a 2nd internal SSD or 2.5" HDD (with a $40 installation kit.) Apple offers a 256Gb SSD option, while the only SSD-only option for the iMac is a $1300 768Gb SSD that you can only get if you are already buying one of the 27" iMacs (which start at $1800).

The main advantages to the iMac are the graphics card (not necessarily important for music studio purposes) and the screen+webcam.

You're spot on. It's actually ideal for music, especially if portability is important. I've chosen it above the rest since 2006 because of the upgradeability and connectivity in such a compact form. The next best thing would be if I could rackmount it in a self contained 1U case with my RME. And you can even use it as a "laptop" without people noticing you're using a laptop. A little 7" touchscreen more than enough away from home. Especially if you're using something like an APC-40.

[skira]

Originally Posted by plaid_emu

The next best thing would be if I could rackmount it in a self contained 1U case with my RME.

Sonnet sells a 1u rack that holds 1 or 2 minis ($170 list, $150 @ Newegg), and these guys have a rack for $100.

[NoctemAudio]

OWC DIYIMM11D2 'Data Doubler' 2.5" Hard Drive/SSD... in stock at OWC

Just found this kit!

Also, I just chose a 2012 Mac Mini with 2.6 i7, 16 gb ram (newegg), and 256 GB SSD as system drive and it's in the mail, I'm very excited and think it will be definitely powerful enough for what I do, and for what you do it seems!

[NoctemAudio]

Plaid Emu, do you think there's a way to use an iPad as a screen for the Mac Mini for portable use? Your touch screen idea is amazing!

[plaid_emu]

Originally Posted by skira

Sonnet sells a 1u rack that holds 1 or 2 minis ($170 list, $150 @ Newegg), and these guys have a rack for $100.

Those are bad-ass. I'm not sure either will accommodate the Fireface 400 without some fiddling or tooling?

For now I'm just using some heavy duty velcro on an empty rack tray. Seems to work well enough. Not sure it would be functionally worth the extra expense unless it was purely for cosmetic purposes. Although I'm sort of trying to create my own personal "Electronium", and Raymond Scott spared no expense for perfection! I'll have to look into the details.

Thanks for the links.

[plaid_emu]

Originally Posted by NoctemAudio

Plaid Emu, do you think there's a way to use an iPad as a screen for the Mac Mini for portable use? Your touch screen idea is amazing!

Unfortunately I don't own an iPad yet, so without a bit of research I can't say whether or not an iPad can be used as a monitor and input device. Someone else here surely knows the answer to that.

I'm pleased you liked my idea of the touchscreen. I hadn't seen anyone using one in their live rigs and haven't seen one since. Kind of surprising to me, as it makes so much sense. It really has proven to be very handy and not get in the way. So far I really like the Lilliput screen but if you don't like touchsceens you can use one of these devices:

Ergonomic Touchpad works on all computers, laptops, tablet PCs. Works with your desktop mouse, laptop mouse pad, or tablet touchpad.

Really cool product for a streamlined approach to portable computing.

[skira]

Originally Posted by NoctemAudio

Plaid Emu, do you think there's a way to use an iPad as a screen for the Mac Mini for portable use?

You can use one as a 2nd monitor with Air Display but you can't use it as the only monitor.

Air Display: iPhone, iPad, Android, Mac or Windows PC as an external monitor

[skira]

Originally Posted by NoctemAudio

I just chose a 2012 Mac Mini with 2.6 i7, 16 gb ram (newegg), and 256 GB SSD as system drive and it's in the mail, I'm very excited

Congratulations! That's the setup I'm considering for myself.

I'm also looking into a 4-bay USB 3.0 enclosure for additional storage. So far I'm trying to decide between

1. the CineRAID CR-H458 ($200 @ Newegg) or
2. the Vantec 4 Bay 3.5-Inch SATA enclosure ($99 @ Amazon but they're out of stock right now) plus a $30 SATA-to-USB3.0 adapter with built-in port multiplier.

[NoctemAudio]

I'm stuck between ordering the OWC install kit and putting in a larger SSD in the Mini alongside the 256 gb ssd (system drive) for recording to and using my firewire 800 7200 rpm drive for samples and such

Or just getting a larger SSD and putting it in a USB 3.0 enclosure and not messing with the internals of the Mini...

I can't decide!

[Ben F]

Originally Posted by skira

That's a canard. FCPX was missing a number of features when it came out (like multicam support) but in subsequent months Apple added in most missing features. In most ways it is a superior product, albeit with a different workflow to learn. A few vocal pros grumbled but not "loads." And even those few who went to Avid or Adobe didn't necessarily dump their Macs in order to do so. Some perspective please.

By loads I meant entire television stations- 3 here in Australia anyway. All went back to Avid or adobe.

The main reason is due to sharing resources over a network which is severely crippled so unusable in a television environment...I'm not just making this up.

Anyway, I would go the macmini as well. thunderbolt is the future for sure, I just installed a Mac mini with a Protools HD native system which is rock solid.

[skira]

True, some local broadcast facilities freaked out when FCPX was announced without multicam support or the ability to easily/fully convert FCP and FCPX files, and Apple didn't promise at intro that they might be added in the future. A fiasco.

A small percentage of pro users decided that if they were going to upgrade to an incompatible production system they might as well make it a cross-platform system, and so Avid and Adobe got some sales. (But I'd bet that most underbudgeted facilities kept their Mac Pros when making the switch, and didn't migrate to Windows.)

When the dust cleared, most pros either stayed with FCP Studio (which after all still worked fine) or reserved judgment until a FCPX point-one or point-two revision came out, and waiting did indeed bring back multicam support and other features. And as pros became familiar with the workflow I think most came to appreciate both the power and time-saving features. But the rollout was a giant cock-up, and Apple subsequently reviewed its other Pro apps to make sure they didn't arrogantly offer half-baked upgrades. (Indeed, a rumor I heard was that Apple had Logic Pro X close to release a year ago, but the FCPX debacle resulted in an internal app-review that resulted in Apple doing a substantial revamp for a product to come out in 2013.)

But overall, for music, if you don't need portability the bang for the buck is the mini. According to MACWORLD's composite Speedmark score (15 individual tests boiled down to a single number, consisting of speed tests in the Finder, iMovie, Cinebench, Handbrake, VMware Fusion, Photoshop, Aperture, iPhoto, Mathermatica and Portal) the new build to order Mac mini/2.6GHz quad-core Core i7, 16GB RAM, 1TB Fusion Drive posted a Specmark that was around 15% faster than a 6-core Xeon Westmere 3.33Ghz build-to-order Mac Pro from 2010.

[DavePiatek]

The new minis are WICKED fast for audio stuff. The graphics card isn't the greatest, but who cares?

I don't know about the latest generation of iMacs, but the older ones had fan noise at high CPU usage levels that was distracting to me. That's why I never bought one. With the mini, you can put it in an area away from your ears, but the iMac CPU fans are attached to your display.

[NoVi]

Originally Posted by DavePiatek

The new minis are WICKED fast for audio stuff. The graphics card isn't the greatest, but who cares?

Well I do
Over the past years I have a set up with 2* 23" screens and would want to keep that kind of screen estate.

[NoVi]

Originally Posted by tvsky

- what can one expect from the built in graphics, I need to connect 2 monitors with 1920 * 1280 resolution. Is that possible with the Mac mini? And how does it work, I gues you need a Thunderbolt interface to connect 2 monitors to?

you can use your thunderbolt connection as a display port interface (just a simple adapter needed) or you can get a hdmi splitter which will let you run 2 monitors off the single HDMI port . You can run 3 monitors if you run both of these options

- 16 Gb is not a lot of internal memory, been thinking about upgrading my MacPro early 2008 from 16 to 32 Gb.

the chipset will support 32gb when 16gb dimms are avaliable and affordable . that is your limitation at the moment .

- I'll need an external disk cabinet to host ca 4 3,5" sATA drives, probably connect it to Thunderbolt too ...

thunderbolt is there and waiting . you could also run a nas box via gig ethernet which would be very quick.

Thanks! looks interesting.

[skira]

Originally Posted by NoVi

Well I do
Over the past years I have a set up with 2* 23" screens and would want to keep that kind of screen estate.

Can't you with the current minis? I know someone with a 2011 mini which drives three Samsung 245BW monitors...

[ProPower]

Originally Posted by NoctemAudio

\
Also, I just chose a 2012 Mac Mini with 2.6 i7, 16 gb ram (newegg), and 256 GB SSD as system drive and it's in the mail, I'm very excited and think it will be definitely powerful enough for what I do, and for what you do it seems!

I have had this identical setup running for over a month with external USB3 Samsung 840 500G drive, 27"ATD, and two 24" 1080P monitors via hdmi splitter, Metric Halo ULN8, PT10HD, Artist control and mix, gigabit ethernet to synology NAS.

No issues :-)

Since the OP did mention video... For intense video work I don't know when the HD4000 becomes noticeably slower/inefficient compared to the imacs graphic solution. I am a music guy so the HD4000 is a non issue in my case.

[NoctemAudio]

Originally Posted by ProPower

I have had this identical setup running for over a month with external USB3 Samsung 840 500G drive, 27"ATD, and two 24" 1080P monitors via hdmi splitter, Metric Halo ULN8, PT10HD, Artist control and mix, gigabit ethernet to synology NAS.

No issues :-)

Since the OP did mention video... For intense video work I don't know when the HD4000 becomes noticeably slower/inefficient compared to the imacs graphic solution. I am a music guy so the HD4000 is a non issue in my case.

Awesome! I actually just picked up an 840 Pro 512GB from Fry's because they price matched it with B&H and they were on sale! I'll be putting that into an OWC Express 2.5" USB 3.0 enclosure =D

For my two large monitors should I run both into an hdmi splitter or do one into hdmi port on the mac mini and one on the thunderbolt port via a thunderbolt/hdmi adapter?

I use an Artist mix and really love it, how's the control working out for you?