techniques, tips , methods and plugins for making sounds bigger on DAW

[sergioelectro]

hello everybody

I am looking for tips, techniques, and plug ins, for fattenning up sounds on DAW.
Mostly for dynamic music styles that concentrates on rythm and bass (hip-hop, dance).
Thanks for all your advice.
Sergio

[Lagerfeldt]

The easiest way is to get one or two pieces of analogue gear, e.g. one tube and one solid state unit perhaps and use those for saturation.

The Gyraf Gyratec X is excellent since it can both fatten (saturate) and is a great compressor.

[seriousfun]

Originally Posted by sergioelectro

hello everybody

I am looking for tips, techniques, and plug ins, for fattenning up sounds on DAW.
Mostly for dynamic music styles that concentrates on rythm and bass (hip-hop, dance).
Thanks for all your advice.
Sergio

Double or triple every part.

Run parts through amplifier simulations (or reamp through a real amplifier).

[Methlab]

I'll write a MIDI part on one softsynth and then copy it to another channel and double it with a different synth for unique tone and fatness.

[jkamata]

e just did that with a Pro-one bassline. Copied the midi and sent it to a DX 100 going
thru a talkbox into my mouth into a mic..sounds wicked and ever changing timbres stike stike stike

guess, u also could do it with a vocoder..the talkbox just sounds so much more organic

[George Necola]

go with delay and trigger the compression for example the kick with the bass (when kick hits, bass is reduced in level... and so on)==> sidechaincompression

delay give you more depth. you can easily faten up things with short delays. I recommend psp 84 delay.

side chain compression.. read about it.

cheers

[Frequency]

Go easy on your plug-in compressors. It will take the life out of your recordings.

Learn how to mix properly. Give each instrument it´s own place in the frequency spectrum. Use a high pass on all things not bass or bassdrum. 120 hz may be a good starting point.

Also, solo one track at a time, use an EQ and sweep through the frequency spectrum with a sharp Q. Find nasty resonant frequencies and remove them. This will give you a much cleaner and professional sounding recording.

[sergioelectro]

hello and thanks already for your replies !!!

What do you mean by making double ? Do you mean duplicating the tracks ?
Isn'it going to produce phasing ?

Are duplicated tracks going to have the same settings as the original tracks ?

Is it possible to extend this method to the final 2 tracks master ?

Thanks

[manning1]

sergio...
the trick with doubling is not just to copy the track.
but on the copy offset it slighly by a minge of milliseconds.
this can fatten things up in conjunction with eq.
i also agree on not useing compressors everywhere.
plug ins can be helpfull if used correctly but i feel too many people reach for them as a panacea. just my opinion.
i dont have the type of high advanced equipment budget that some here have.
therefore one has to wring out from ones gear what one can.
this includes doubling / offsetting tracks.
useing eq tricks. i liked the comment on eq up further about trying to find a "space" for everything. sound advice.
basically songs are WORK. tons of work.
and gear is not always the panacea.
one thing i learnt years ago from some v nice audio engr's in big studios was
focus on the little things. if you dont have something also...you can make it.
for example an old trick is to use a speaker in a bathroom miced up as an effect.
then send a track to it and record the result.
and see what you get. with the age of plug ins a lot of these old fun techniques are disappearing. but its worth experimenting with them. to see what you get.
layering is another method for a fuller sound. for example lead vocals or guitars.

[sergioelectro]

Georges Necola ,

Can you please explain me a bit more about your delay technique to fatten up the sound ?
Thanks by advance

[Aerophone]

Originally Posted by sergioelectro

Georges Necola ,

Can you please explain me a bit more about your delay technique to fatten up the sound ?
Thanks by advance

It sucks.

[Lagerfeldt]

Doubling tracks can be a double edged sword.

On anything else than live music, less is usually more. On a cd you only have a limited amount of headroom, dubbing some sounds will inevitably lead to lower levels and sometimes loss of clarity and punch.

No size fits all, so experiment. But most people dubbing their drums end up worse than using the right samples from the start.

[brandy]

Originally Posted by George Necola

go with delay and trigger the compression for example the kick with the bass (when kick hits, bass is reduced in level... and so on)==> sidechaincompression

So, please share your secret tricks to do native sidechaining in Cubase/Nuendo!



:-))


brandy

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by sergioelectro

hello everybody

I am looking for tips, techniques, and plug ins, for fattenning up sounds on DAW.
Mostly for dynamic music styles that concentrates on rythm and bass (hip-hop, dance).
Thanks for all your advice.
Sergio

Wow, man... I think if you want the MUSIC to get BIGGER then you have to get SMALL...

... if you know what I mean.

[George Necola]

Can you please explain me a bit more about your delay technique to fatten up the sound ?

it's relativly easy.


now look at the picture carefully and tell me what you can do with a PHASE button

adventures in delay just started

[brandy]

Originally Posted by George Necola

tell me what you can do with a PHASE button

You can f*ck up the phase!

:-)

[seriousfun]

Originally Posted by sergioelectro

...Do you mean duplicating the tracks ?
Isn'it going to produce phasing ?

Are duplicated tracks going to have the same settings as the original tracks ?

Is it possible to extend this method to the final 2 tracks master ?

Thanks

If you duplicate a track, and do nothing further, all you will get is 3 dB more output from that track.

You can duplicate the tracks, and experiment with panning, and yes you will probably have to delay the duplicated tracks for a variety of reasons - 5-10 ms per track (you can nudge the duplicated tracks by this amount). Experiment with different settings, especially EQ, on the dupes. Cancellation (if this is what you mean by phasing) can occur up to the point where the delayed track sounds like a discrete echo of the first.

Also, as has been said, direct the MIDI track to another instrument (or more). This kind of layering was often done with hardware MIDI recording, and it's even easier in software.

Always check these in Mono! Out-of-Phase duplicated sounds can sound great in Stereo but can get cancelled in Mono.

Except for very special cases, I wouldn't do any of this on the final mix.

[brian_delizza]

Originally Posted by seriousfun

Always check these in Mono! Out-of-Phase duplicated sounds can sound great in Stereo but can get cancelled in Mono.

It's a good habit to check all of your mixes for mono compatibility!

I agree with the above in investing in some sort of outboard gear to sweeten things up a little bit...

[sergioelectro]

yes , but is it worth going out out to outboard gear when you do not have top class converters ?

I (just) have a simple Yamaha I88x.


So, which outboad gear are unanimously famous for fattening sounds in dance music styles ?

Thanks

Sergio

[fraz]

Also, don't track your stuff too hot - leave headroom.

[Curtis Franklin]

Distressors make fat sounds.

All of the gear listed previously makes fat sounds.

Go to a local gear rental place and rent a few pieces. Nothing is one-size-fits all, just try stuff. If you LOVE it BUY it. If you LIKE it RENT it.

[horseface]

Originally Posted by pumadrum

Distressors make fat sounds.

All of the gear listed previously makes fat sounds.

Go to a local gear rental place and rent a few pieces. Nothing is one-size-fits all, just try stuff. If you LOVE it BUY it. If you LIKE it RENT it.

Are Distressors fat enough for dance sounds, like Sergio is wanting? I know that what a rock/acoustic/country considers fat isn't always what a dance artist calls fat.

There's fat and then there's fat.

I personally agree with people telling you to mult. Mult your tracks like a crazy arse fugger and process them all differently.

[gsilbers]

for electronic music/ hip hop just dupplluctae the midi track and add another synth/sample. it will be kinda dumb doing the delay/phase trick if u have tons of preset and synths that sound so similar. that trick really works wonders on stuff u record and sometimes imposible to to do double takes.

think interms of octaves/frequency. after u find a cool bass preset (even better if u create ones yourselves) and then play the groove/part , go to another midi/intrument tracks and pull up another synth/sampler of a subass. u can also just grap any old bass patch and use a low pass filter and take away eerything above ...say 50-200hz. if u solo it you mostly feel it rather than hear it.

then go to another bass patch and copy the settings of the original bass u recorded and paiste then into this new synth and use a high pass filter /tweek FM, cutt of filters, OSC detune LFO etc.. make it sound a tad diferent and maybe add an amp simulator and add it a little lower to the mix than the original .

you want the original to sound loudest and the sub and upper bass to sound a little lower.

maybe double the bass with a lead sound. a lot of genre of dance and hiphop just have one melody going on with the vocals or by themsleves under a lot of wet sfxs.


for a big sound.. double the kick drum A LOT OF TIMES!, Dr uses like 6 kick drums on one song at the same time. same with snares. same idea. grab a sub kick, a couple of real drum sample (kik in kik out) and different 808/909.

i think someone alredy mention it. use side chain compression on the bass triggered by the kick.

as for myself i am sidechain-compressing everything to the kick, but that not for the faint harted or non-electonic style listener. i even have a compressor after the send reverb side chained to the kick to have pumping reverb but all this is defenlty for 4 on the floor music.

for hip hop i seen and heard using delay on the hats and sidechain compresing it with the vocals. so everytime the vocals comes in the hats duck. which for rap sounds cool as it creates dynamic 808 hats.

[sergioelectro]

I understand "fat" (for dance) mostly by referring to the 70's and the disco sound: warm , creamy, and not so perfect and britlle (if you see what I mean ) but full and organic.

Is there any outboard gear that could really (I will really feel and hear the difference and improvment)help me getting my sound that way ?

Thanks everybody already for your replies !!!

[LAU]

Originally Posted by sergioelectro

I understand "fat" (for dance) mostly by referring to the 70's and the disco sound: warm , creamy, and not so perfect and britlle (if you see what I mean ) but full and organic.

Is there any outboard gear that could really (I will really feel and hear the difference and improvment)help me getting my sound that way ?

Thanks everybody already for your replies !!!

read about what they did in those days, rent gear they used in those days....

there was no digital audio, so stay away from that as much as you can....

on the other hand you probably want to make contemporary music that will sound kinda 70's disco stylee.....in that case do as i suggested, but dont be afraid to mix it up with DAW techniques.

[osci]

Phat could be so many things. A great place to start would be with the PSP vintage warmer. For Phat sounds use gear that sounds BIG and warm to start with. To find out what you think is Phat just take note of recordings that you like and look into what they used and go from there. I dont feel that you need to use hardware to get big sounds. Just make sure you use quality software. High sample rates help, good mixing skills are needed.

[SamSpacey]

The more stuff you have going on in a track...the more you have to crush the life out of it in mastering to get it to a decent level to compete with the ever growing louder brickwall crap......... The less cluttered your mix, the more dynamics you can have without losing the punch and volume.

Also eq out any frequencies you won't hear from each track. If there is bass on a hi hat, it's taking up room....get rid of it.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by sergioelectro

Is there any outboard gear that could really (I will really feel and hear the difference and improvment)help me getting my sound that way ?

Thanks everybody already for your replies !!!

Yeah its called tape.

And using musicians that can groove in the pocket with the tightest orchestrations helps a ton.

[LAU]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

And using musicians that can groove in the pocket with the tightest orchestrations helps a ton.

thumbsup

[sergioelectro]

Hey

I have also always think tape might be a good thing !

But how to use it in a DAW environment ? (slight tempo and pitch changes , no ?)

Was thinking about a revox b77 , or PR99 (what do you think ? )

thanks