The Ultimate PC

[Jack Ruston]

Hi

I may be ditching my PT rig and going to a native setup involving both a mac running logic and a PC running samplitude.

I already have a gigastudio PC (P4 2ghz 533fsb 512 ddr266). Sadly the mother board has become damaged and needs to be replaced. Should I take this opportunity to really beef things up a bit? I plan to run Samplitude most of the time, using the mac for clients who "must mac". I am obviously keen to create a setup that will really rival my outgoing HD2, and yield high track counts etc. So if I'm swapping this motherboard, do I create a real monster? What components should I choose? Presumably I want ddr400 and an 800mhz fsb. Whats out there? If anyone is really up on this stuff and knows of some stable reliable configs, maybe they could help me out....?

Thanks guys

Jack

[atticus]

I'm no expert, but I'd probably look really hard at the new 64 bit AMD chips. Good luck!

[Jack Ruston]

Thanks David

I read that they were extremely fast. Is the 64bit'ness not irrelevant to audio apps though? Or are they just really fast whatever.

I keep reading about dual cpu s but havent really seen any systems advertised. Are they they a good idea for pcs?

Thanks again

Jack

[atticus]

Again, I am by no means an expert, but I have been researching the 64 bit chips in anticipation of trying out some of the new Linux Daw apps that are 64 bit native. I believe that a 64 bit system by it's very nature is capable of using more ram, which is always a good thing for audio and video. Perhaps BrianT can hop on here and explain the benefits. He's the expert, not me. Thanks.

[musictech]

From what I've read on various forums/newsgroups from other computer type people, the 64 bit processors aren't going to gain anything for you for quite a while, other than being able to address a lot more RAM.

You won't see any major application performance improvements until the applications are rewritten to take advantage of 64 bit processors, and the operating system would probably have to be updated as well.

Also, from what I've read the new Intel 64 bit processors actually perform SLOWER when running 32 bit applications due to how Intel decided to implement things. The AMD 64 bit processors don't suffer any performance hit for 32 bit apps, but also aren't any faster than equivalent 32 bit processors.

The general consensus seems to be that it's probably best to wait until the second generation of 64 bit processors come around, as well as waiting for the software apps to be upgraded and the bugs worked out.

I had a dual AMD cpu system put together for me last October. I had a few problems with some software that didn't like dual processors (Reaktor was one), but that has all been straightened out with software updates.

Don't expect to get twice the processing power with a dual processor system. It simply doesn't work that way! Some people suggest going with a high-end single processor system, but more and more software supports dual processors now and there are a few advantages. One good thing about dual processors is that the responsiveness of Windows doesn't start to suffer as you are maxing out a processor with plug-ins and other DSP operations. I tried maxing my system out with plug-ins as a test after I got it... it took a LOT of plug-ins before I was finally able to bring Cubase SX to its knees, but Windows XP itself never even flinched until Cubase SX totally crashed.

I'm using Nuendo now, and in real working situations never come close to maxing out my machine, and I'm only using dual MP1800 processors.

The truth is, these days, unless you are always going to be using a LOT of plug-ins and VST instruments at the same time, you'll have more than enough processing power than you need with just about any single or dual processor system you buy today.

There really is no need to spend the extra money for the absolute fastest processor out right now. Go down a few notches and you can save a considerable amount and still have more power than you need.

Also, I would STRONGLY suggest that you use the money you save by not buying the fastest processor and invest that money into one or two of the UAD-1 cards! The plug-ins on those are FAR better than most native plug-ins, and then the card will also free up your cpu power since you'll be using mostly the UAD-1 for compression and EQ and such. The new Dreamverb is pretty decent as well, and is finally a plug-in reverb that I like almost as much as my hardware units. Once Tascam puts out the GigaPulse, we'll have a good convolution reverb as well (hopefully), although SIR is pretty cool but adds a LOT of latency and is still a bit too processor hungry (although I can use it easily with my dual MP 1800 system in a live mix with no problems).

I'd have to go back and check the specs on my system, but I don't believe that mine has the 800mhz fsb, and I'm not suffering at all. So, if you get a newer, more up to date system (mines over a year old), you'll have more than enough power. Get the IDE hard drives with the 8MB buffers, and you'll have no problems with track counts either. My old system had two SCSI drives and for some of the big band jazz projects I did that had 40 or 50 tracks I had to divide the tracks between two drives... with the Western Digital JB drives with the 8MB buffers on the new system, one drive handles it all without flinching (of course, you need to set up the system cache in your audio software properly, so the cpu is doing some work to help out the drives).

Hope this helps a little bit.

I'd be glad to share more information with you and refer you to some companies who can build system and who are very helpful.

I used to build my own systems, but these days you can get someone else to build a custom system for not much more money than you would spend buying all the parts yourself, so I just let someone else do it who keeps up with the newest technology more than I do.

Steve

[Teacher]

FYI windows is coming out with a 64bit OS...when will it be officially released i don't know...

[Jack Ruston]

Thanks Guys...

As I suspected it would seem that the very newest stuff is a waste of money for a tiny extra benefit.

I reckon I could swap my motherboard out for a slightly newer one (which I will have to do anyway) and stick the existing 2ghz P4 back in. That would give me the option to go for something faster if I need to later on. I could get some extra ram, and some of those 8mb cache drives and I'll be set. Not expensive and easy enough to do. Any idea what kind of performance I can expect with samplitude in that type of setup? I do lots of outboard and I'm well into the UAD1 idea...Can I run a few power hungry reverbs, a few VST synths, Gigastudio and a fifty track session? I know it varies from hardware config to hardware config.

I dont suppose it would be a good idea to go AMD, because I already have that P4 processor, and presumably at any one time all the big toys are performing roughly the same arent they? Or at least if intel are not on top, they will be soon, then amd, then intel etc etc

Thanks for the help guys. Sorry this is not the most interesting topic, but its a big move for me, and I need to be clear what changes are needed and how much they will cost before I commit.

J

[musictech]

If you get a UAD-1 card (or two) and use the new Dreamverb as your reverbs, then you should have no problems. You could probably even handle one or two instances of SIR (or, the new GigaPulse when it comes out which is supposed to have much lower latency and by more cpu friendly).

You should have no problems with your current processor, especially if you plan ahead and get a new mobo that allows you to upgrade that processor in the future.

I don't use GigaStudio, and I'm not sure how well it behaves with other aps these days, but I know that the people who use it seriously buy a seperate computer just for it and treat that computer with GigaStudio as their main sampler. I know that when it first came out people weren't having much luck running it at the same time as Cubase or any other DAW software. First off, you'd have to have a multi-client capable sound card, or two different sound cards in the same computer. Then, you are competing for disk bandwidth if you are using GigaStudio with a lot of instruments that use extensive disk streaming due to the size of the sample sets. If you are just going to be using one or two instruments at a time, you're probably better off using something like Halion or Kontakt that can import Giga files and do disk streaming also since they work as VST instruments within any VST capable host program.

The Giga thing running at the same time as Samplitude would be the only possible issue you might run into... other than that, you should have more than enough power to last you for at least a year or two while all the 64 bit processing stuff gets sorted out.

Steve

[Jack Ruston]

Hmm.

I suppose I'll have to just see how it goes. If it cant cope I can think about another option. Thanks for the feedback.

Jack

[fishtop_records]

Originally posted by Sly


Should I take this opportunity to really beef things up a bit?
....
So if I'm swapping this motherboard, do I create a real monster?

In general, being on the bleeding edge
of speed is not consistant with being
reliable. For any pro use, be it DAW
or software development platform,
I can't afford the loss of reliability.

The Windows world will not likely have
64 bit applications for years. When it
comes, it will be great. But the mass
market has barely moved to 32 bit.

Intel has designed their 64 bit CPUs
to fly with real 64 bit code, and be
only "average" with legacy applications
(i.e. 32 bit). AMD is taking a more
"fast 32" approach, but nobody
is shipping consumer 64 bit chips
in volume, so it really doesn't matter.

I aim for the second fastest machines
(sometimes 3rd) that I can get, since
they provide much better bang for
the buck, and are more reliable
as well..

[Ianneve]

I'm running a P4 2.5 and it's pretty screaming. 1 gig DDR Ram. 2 UAD 1 cards. I was advised on the PC build by Gary Brenner and have turned him on to other pros who are doing this very thing. He works for Apogee tech suport and builds or advices PC builds on the side. garyb@opusaudioprojects.net He can tell you what to get and help you with setting up XP for audio. Good luck. You won't be sorry. I'm runnig up to 70 tracks and could probably do more in Samp 7.1.2..

[Jack Ruston]

Great.

As it happens I got the new motherboard, and by the time I'd taken the whole thing apart and put that in, I thought it was probably best to get the upgrades in there at this time. I dont want to be messing about with it once its working. I went for an MSI motherboard, a P4 3.0 with 800mhz fsb, two 512ddr 400, and a couple of 160gig sata drives. Its back up and looks perfect, but I need to do so serious audio testing before it gets a clean bill of health. I must say hardware changes bios config and windows reinstall was remarkably easy. If I can get it all configured correctly for audio it should go like a rocket.
J

[Ianneve]

You will, that's great. Have fun and good luck.

[robdarling]

Keep us posted on your situation. Giga is a tough master, and I've never seen anyone reliably using it in tandem with other apps on the same machine, but maybe the newer systems are finally up to the task.

[Jack Ruston]

Yeah.

It was not 100% reliable on its own, but I think its more to do with giga itself. I hope the forthcoming versions will be better. It works OK for what I need it do. I just hope it doesnt cause instability in Samplitude.

J

[TOR]

Looks like AMD are working on it, might not be that far off



http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/031010/105357_1.html

~T