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Antonis2007
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7th December 2012
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Building The Most Advanced DAW On The Planet

What would you want from it?

Time to dream bigger.


Quote:
HPCwire: HPC Advisory Council Names University Award Winner



The HPC Advisory Council announced that Antonis Karalis has received the prestigious HPC Advisory Council University Award 2012 for advanced research in the subject area of music in high-performance computing.
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7th December 2012
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cool,kick them all bro!
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7th December 2012
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Congrats on the award, Antonis!


Knock us out.
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7th December 2012
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A lean mean Linux based OS designed for a matching DAW that puts performance and sound quality before everything else!
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8th December 2012
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Thank you for your comments. I really want to listen to what you need !
What the ultimate DAW represents for you?

You know what we want?

We want to deliver solutions that will remove All the technological constrains music professionals face. We want to enable new levels of creativity freedom and sound quality.

We want it to be a quantum leap from what the 'personal computer' of today and tomorrow can deliver.

We want to enable the next Robert Moog, the next Bill Putnam and the next Ruperd Neve, to design their tools with our new 'technology ecosystem' in mind.

Only a truly NEW platform and 'a new way of thinking' will enable innovation. And when sound and workflow innovations takes place... music move forward ! This was always the only way we ever had.

We do not massively enjoy goods from a new breed designers because there is NO platform that can 'work' with the advanced demands of our day and age. We have put useless weight in the back of bright minds to build their own platform if they want to create innovative tools. And what we do? we lock ourselves inside proprietary systems. systems that sooner or latter will go out of the market.

And at the end of the day - every time I see one of my favorite composers or songwriters working with some old and rusty analogue tool - i can't help myself but think:

'my God, we are still in the 70s'

Do not get me wrong - We won't put aside the tools that work in order to become 'bullies' with 'new cool toys'.

We have to identify - what was the good think about 70s and try to bring the core of it with us. Keep only what we need. The time has come too add something really new.
High Performance Technologies are on our side !

It is time to allow ourselves to experiment and fail. We might then discover that failure does not exist.

“I didn't fail 1,000 times,” Edison responded. “The light bulb was an invention with 1,000 steps.”

Best Regards
Antonis
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8th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxwelldub View Post
A lean mean Linux based OS designed for a matching DAW that puts performance and sound quality before everything else!
Linux.

With recent OS moves from Apple and MS, Linux looks like it may be the venue of the future for power user creatives like audio and video production pros.
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8th December 2012
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Would be like Ableton with better GUI (that space usage..) hybridized with Studio One and the loading speed of Reaper.

Thank you. Then I am in heaven.
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8th December 2012
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I have believed for a while that an Audio OS would be pretty nice.

Some of the biggest issues we have is running into temperamental issues from the OS - it's always in the way of things. If there was a streamlined system for the DAW and maybe a few other neat tools to run atop...

Plus, with Apple moving to yearly, or even bi-yearly releases with their OS, I can't imagine any dev being able to keep up with them. At least the serious programs. And Windows is basically on the same track, though they are less efficient at getting their releases out the door.

We need something that is a bit more constant.
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8th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckreon View Post
I have believed for a while that an Audio OS would be pretty nice.

Some of the biggest issues we have is running into temperamental issues from the OS - it's always in the way of things. If there was a streamlined system for the DAW and maybe a few other neat tools to run atop...

Plus, with Apple moving to yearly, or even bi-yearly releases with their OS, I can't imagine any dev being able to keep up with them. At least the serious programs. And Windows is basically on the same track, though they are less efficient at getting their releases out the door.

We need something that is a bit more constant.
Audio OS would be a dream come true. The real problem here is getting enough momentum to create a platform that is profitable enough keep alive.
Z.
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8th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OwDU7 View Post
Audio OS would be a dream come true. The real problem here is getting enough momentum to create a platform that is profitable enough keep alive.
Z.
This would be true if it were approached as a business venture, but we could also approach it as Open Source. This doesn't mean that the key devs can't make some money off of it (look at the various unix distros), but it does mean that if the key devs can't support it anymore (or lose interest), the community could.

And hey, the serious audio guys are getting smarter - I think we're up to the task.

EDIT: wanted to clarify that I think you made a great point, probably the biggest obstacle something like this would face.

Last edited by ckreon; 8th December 2012 at 08:19 PM.. Reason: Clarification
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8th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonis2007 View Post
What would you want from it?

Time to dream bigger.
A super computer that could run virtually endless amounts of convolution plugs and Nebula instances.
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8th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blandry View Post
A super computer that could run virtually endless amounts of convolution plugs and Nebula instances.
An affordable one, that is
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Antonis, congrats on your award!

However, I could not find any info about your actual proposal, so I'm a bit unclear on what you are asking here.

Are you proposing to employ an HPC cluster as a DAW/music computer? IOW, extrapolating from the "DSP on multi-core/multi-processor" platforms in use currently for hosting DAW and music applications? Just more better better faster faster? Or something completely new and heretofore not possible due to platform limits?

Can you describe your awarded proposal in a bit more detail?
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9th December 2012
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Yes a proprietary Linux based system that would squeeze everything out of the cpu and ram.

DAW advances like the disc streaming from gigasampler. Ahead of its time.

If there were solid interfaces and drivers I am there. A more liquid approach to recording. Like the ssd drive of DAW's. Creative outpouring like Adobe After Effects. An app that begs me to explore every square inch.

I would like to see actions implemented that use math to control groups of parameters in real time, where I can use pick whips to drag actions to groups which effect your time selection.

More options for manipulation and experimentation inside the DAW. I mean, after all, the reverse reverb is still one of audio's coolest fx and sounds, so how can we more easily audition those types of fx from within the DAW and apply it to instruments and sound bytes. Then, use my midi controller to manipulate these fx in real time.

Sorta like controlling a cool vsti like zebra, only a more broad DAW level.

I am rambling but it is close to my heart, and I find today's tools amazing and inspiring. I can't believe how far it has come in the last 15 years.
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9th December 2012
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I love your points. Keep them coming !
Remember, radical, forward thinking - it is time for innovation !
this is research - no marketing involved.


-------
ckreon
the key devs can't make some money off of it
------
I do not make money out of it. I am working in this for the last 5 years.
The last two years were veeery intensive ... i have spend a lot of money on testing solutions and creating a DAW prototype, fine tuning it. I love it... it gave me freedom to create music that i was not capable of creating in any other way ! It was an insight of the future !

Now with the help of HPC Advisory Council we will expand testing to the scale of a supercomputer with 100Gbit interconnection and down to a simple (but still powerful) cluster that some kid can create with a 1Gbit network !

Different solutions for different needs - but only one new solid mindset.


-------
ckreon
We need something that is a bit more constant.
-------
This is priority No.1 - we will stay constant by removing the 'need' for OS yearly updates. It will be powerful enough to be TOP CLASS for 5 to 7 years.


--------
Blandry
A super computer that could run virtually endless amounts of plugs
--------
That's what we are building. A supercomputer. And also few 'mini' Supercomputers because we want this technology to be usable from music professionals with limited resources ! So, we will make affordable solutions that have a great return of investment !


---------
Goddard
Are you proposing to employ an HPC cluster as a DAW/music computer?
--------
Yes !
It will be better, faster, highest sound quality, infinitely expandable.
The end of 'personal computer' along with all it's limitations.


We will make a press release very soon that will have more info about what we do and why.

I am thinking of making a Google plus hangout very soon so we can chat about it and ask me anything you want about the project.

Are you into that?

That's me on google plus: https://plus.google.com/107363503261150463012
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9th December 2012
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I do like the idea of it being a custom audio OS based on Linux. I am more curious to know how this will be different than say a 12 core Intel workstation. I have an idea that is different , to me it is and has to do with MIDI sequencing. The idea is to design a algorithm that takes the information of each note played/recorded into the sequencer and suggest notes that would sound better with the previous and next note. Maybe I'm just lazy, but it seems like a golden feature to me.

This next idea is a bit big brotherish but how about a always on feature. Basically audio is always being recorded for any session from any mic so every sound is picked up and saved. Have it so anything close to silence gets deleted off the hard drive. Sessions 30 days old automatically upload to a cloud storage solution and get deleted from drive to make room. Both these features could be turned off of course.

About what you said about us still being in the 70's... I agree with bringing the best over and of course the best is quality. Throw away emulating because nobody really likes an imposter like an orginal. I feel moving forward with digital and only trying to make the sound more 3D as some might call it and not necessarily colorful or warm. The key factor in analog that everyone seems to like is simple and should carry on. The factor I speak of is touch. I believe Microsoft has got the right idea but of course they are aiming at the consumer. Use a multitouch monitor and allow every aspect of the DAW to support touch. Whether it's adding a track, copy, paste, looping, automation edits, etc let it be touched.

This might be a bizarre idea but rewrite the rule book, this is your chance, our chance. Like volume meters for audio coming into the DAW, what about them? Change the way we look at music. Instead it's just a solid color or two if it's a stereo track. Design a feature that decides the color of a sound. If its a dark green its volume is lower but if it's bright green its louder, a solid white and of course close to white shows signs of peaking.

These are things that I feel would truly motivate creativity within a new DAW. Also help it stand out and not just feel slightly different.

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I think any OS which would really know the meaning of realtime and multitasking would be a big revolution.
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Antonis2007
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9th December 2012
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Excellent post Projektk
Big, bold and innovative !

--------
projektk
Throw away emulating because nobody really likes an imposter like an original. I feel moving forward with digital and only trying to make the sound more 3D as some might call it and not necessarily colorful or warm.
---------
That's one part of the future we have to re-invent in order to bring 70s qualities back: Infinite sample rate! We cannot do that with digital but... there are workarounds that work !! As long as we are not 'locked in the box' with one or two CPUs and 'few' or 'many cores' or 4 pcie dsp cards ! This is one reason we need High-Performance Computing (HPC) technologies !

---------
projektk
This might be a bizarre idea but rewrite the rule book, this is your chance, our chance.
---------
Yes, This is it our chance !
It is the chance for music professionals to have tools
that don't limit their imagination and the chance for music lovers to enjoy 'the goods of music and sound innovation' once again !

Removing technological limitations from composers and songwriters will enable music move forward ! Giving them 'new toys' will move it even further !

There are plugin developers that create awesome tools and with HPC solutions we will give them (cpu) time for new ideas !
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The tightest MIDI timing possible.

Sent from my Droid
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I wish that FL Studio (my daw of choice) had the warping capabilities of Ableton. So useful when making long-form mixes that need to sync audio at different tempos. Ie. automating the master tempo an have the audio tracks time stretch in real time.
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11th December 2012
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I believe that it would be great for the research to involve real products and real music tests - and not just make some 'computerized benchmarks'. That is why I ask for support from the people of the audio industry. The OEMs and the software developers.

HPC Advicory Council is an ecosystem that includes best-in-class original equipment manufacturers (OEMs), strategic technology suppliers, independent software vendors (ISVs) and selected end-users across the entire range of HPC market segments.
The growing list of companies includes: Intel, AMD, Mellanox Technologies, Microsoft, NEC, NVIDIA, SGI, Supermicro, Virginia Tech University, Wolfram Research, Cornell University, Dassault, Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory...etc.

here is the full list:
Please contact me if you are ready to join this list !
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17th December 2012
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HPC and Music Production - When ideas have sex

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17th December 2012
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Almost didn't watch that. I do agree and it was a good speech. Funny how the whole crowd laughed we he mentioned ideas having sex with each other.

Anyways, it's very true. I believe as a community we can create amazing things. I'm going to PM you now...

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17th December 2012
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i totally echo the idea of a streamlined dedicated production/post operating system purely for the professional. nothing flashy, just a new standard that will run your chosen DAW. It would need to appeal to devs from other companies, avid/steiny etc but if they only had to develop for one OS????????

if it was possible for us to open projects in any daw that would rule.
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18th December 2012
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---------
stgaudio
if it was possible for us to open projects in any daw that would rule.
---------

You mean in any 'Software DAW' - like logic, protools, dp, nuendo, cubase...etc? I am sure that some friends of mine have the programming skills to do that. Nice idea! I will ask them about it !




---------
stgaudio
A dedicated production/post operating system purely for the professional
---------

No, i am not into that. 'dedicated'='expensive'

I go the opposite direction.

I will let it open to scalability.
A 18 year old would be able to setup a system like this but at the same time... the best studio on the planet would be able to setup a more powerful system. Power would be the difference - not features and quality !

but then again 'features and quality'=power (so true pros would get the difference they deserve).

But I think you got my approach. We should not exclude 'kids' and low budget people from any game-changing technology - or - it is not game-changing at all and it won't help music move forward !
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18th December 2012
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Quote:
I have an idea that is different , to me it is and has to do with MIDI sequencing.
I have a dare for you. Don't include MIDI beyond ability to sync. No virtual instruments. OR...fix it. One sample clock tick=one midi tick. No more syncing a PPQN based midi clock to the sample clock. Either fix it or dump it. One is going to be FAR easier, me thinks.
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18th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonis2007 View Post
---------
stgaudio
if it was possible for us to open projects in any daw that would rule.
---------

You mean in any 'Software DAW' - like logic, protools, dp, nuendo, cubase...etc? I am sure that some friends of mine have the programming skills to do that. Nice idea! I will ask them about it !




---------
stgaudio
A dedicated production/post operating system purely for the professional
---------

No, i am not into that. 'dedicated'='expensive'

I go the opposite direction.

I will let it open to scalability.
A 18 year old would be able to setup a system like this but at the same time... the best studio on the planet would be able to setup a more powerful system. Power would be the difference - not features and quality !

but then again 'features and quality'=power (so true pros would get the difference they deserve).

But I think you got my approach. We should not exclude 'kids' and low budget people from any game-changing technology - or - it is not game-changing at all and it won't help music move forward !
Yup. And I'm 37 yrs old Most "pro" music is horrid anyway...
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18th December 2012
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No latency ever

Monitor / record with any effect - still no latency ever

No CPU load except for what is in active record or monitor -- all other tracks should silently make working prints of themselves and not use real time resources (unless they have to!).

Standardize external controller interface to encourage innovation there -- any high speed port--- ethernet / usb3 / TB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonis2007 View Post
---------
stgaudio
if it was possible for us to open projects in any daw that would rule.
---------

You mean in any 'Software DAW' - like logic, protools, dp, nuendo, cubase...etc? I am sure that some friends of mine have the programming skills to do that. Nice idea! I will ask them about it !




---------
stgaudio
A dedicated production/post operating system purely for the professional
---------

No, i am not into that. 'dedicated'='expensive'

I go the opposite direction.

I will let it open to scalability.
A 18 year old would be able to setup a system like this but at the same time... the best studio on the planet would be able to setup a more powerful system. Power would be the difference - not features and quality !

but then again 'features and quality'=power (so true pros would get the difference they deserve).

But I think you got my approach. We should not exclude 'kids' and low budget people from any game-changing technology - or - it is not game-changing at all and it won't help music move forward !
mmmm, I'm not saying it shouldn't be accessibale to people on a budget, but by it's very nature, the idea I had in mind would only appeal to someone looking to do dedicated music or post work. Some folk may have it on a dual boot so they can mess around with logic now & again, but, i think it would appeal to the pro/prosumer guys a lot. Something that could be run in EVERY studio, be it private, project or pro. A new standard for anyone wanting to seriously spend time with a DAW.
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