SSL vs what else? SSL

[RoundBadge]

Glad I picked #6 ..i already own the damn thing... good to know..
..
with a little tweaking, they'll probably all sound fine
although at this point I still like the C2[unlinked] or real 384 on the stereo buss for the SSL vibe

Thanks TRS for taking the timethumbsup

[Sammy]

Picked #2, which I own as well (though not TDM), guess we're all happy now then

[six_wax]

I'll try to run the original through a 384 this weekend, just for sh*ts & giggles.

[Barilla]

Just shows how it's all about personal preference. Duende wins for me, though.

[T_R_S]

Originally Posted by Old Dog

I went back and listened again once I saw the results and thought the Liquid Mix was quite comparable to the Duende and I liked it even better, though the Duende was decent. .

That was a surpize for me as well having both the Duende and Liquid Mix I liked the Liquid Mix better. Go figure

[The Beatsmith]

I can't stress enough, that the auto release on the duende is really badly broken. It will be fixed soon. It's not a fair comparison.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by six_wax

I'll try to run the original through a 384 this weekend, just for sh*ts & giggles.

That would be cool. Like I said if you really wanted to be bad ass the thing to do is post all of these files again in a new thread so they are all blind.... but no big deal if you can't.

Actually if you want to send the file to me I am willing to re-post all of them for a new blind test... if anyone is interested?

[EduardoApolonia]

I'll run the original file through a C1 a C2 and the SSL Xlogic G series that I am trying this weekend.

[u b k]

i just came onto this thread a minute ago, i'm looking at those screenshots and the first thing i notice is that the duende's threshold is set about 5db higher than the waves, because the range on their knobs is different.

am i the only one noticing this? the waves sure *sounds* like it's grabbing more.

EDIT: okay, i see someone else noticed this, but i also notice no one seems to care.

should i run this mix into the api, give you all a taste of transformer love on the top and bottom?


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[Old Dog]

Originally Posted by u b i k

i just came onto this thread a minute ago, i'm looking at those screenshots and the first thing i notice is that the duende's threshold is set about 5db higher than the waves, because the range on their knobs is different.

I believe TRS said the gain reduction was hitting 4dB on each plug. As to whether Waves' meter is accurate or not is a good question and certainly a consideration before buying. Granted, by ear you may not want to hit something that hard, but for this test, having equal gain reduction (as indicated by each plug), ratio, attack and release is the only fair way to compare.

To me the Waves sounded flat and dull. All the life was sucked out of the mix.

[Old Dog]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

That would be cool. Like I said if you really wanted to be bad ass the thing to do is post all of these files again in a new thread so they are all blind.... but no big deal if you can't.

Actually if you want to send the file to me I am willing to re-post all of them for a new blind test... if anyone is interested?

Please, no more tests. That last was quite nerve racking. But if you want to post the mix through an SSL, I'd love to here the real thing to see if I like it compared to the plugs.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by Old Dog

Please, no more tests. That last was quite nerve racking. But if you want to post the mix through an SSL, I'd love to here the real thing to see if I like it compared to the plugs.

Well there is this thing called expectation bias and all....



As in we humans tend to want to see (and hear) what we want to see (and hear). Without making this test blind then yes many folks would choose the hardware unit in the test because that is what we want to believe is going to sound better or what we have been trained to believe sounds better.

Even knowing that we have our own expectation bias going into a test, studies have shown that we still are biased in how we perceive the results.

The point is to really know which you like the sound of better, hardware or all the software plug-ins, you really should listen to them in a true blind (or double blind) test.

I would rather do it that way so I am not fooling myself with the results but to each his own. It's all good.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by Old Dog

...but for this test, having equal gain reduction (as indicated by each plug), ratio, attack and release is the only fair way to compare.

if that's true, then fairness seems counterproductive, arguably irrelevant. what is the point of this test? to see which plug people prefer at a given, arbitrary setting? then that's what we got. what can you do with this information?

but perhaps the waves plug sounds great with less action on the GR meter, while the others sound uninteresting. of all things engineering, nothing is more critical to do by ear (imo) than compression... my meters stay on output, not GR, and i have a piece of tape over the light that indicates when the detector is being hit. flying blind frees me up to do things i might otherwise not do, sometimes that means heavy reduction, sometimes it means next to none.

on any given task, the sweet spot is going to be different for one piece of kit than another, and plugs are no different. so, give me a test where a great mixer says, "here, i spent some time tweaking each of these comps until it was working best for this source," then i'd have something potentially useful to gauge. but knobs and meters are a really bad way to ascertain what a processor is doing, let alone what it is capable of doing.

again, i'm not saying this test is invalid, i'm just being clear on what exactly it demonstrates, and whether it gets at the question i believe is the one most people want to know: what's the best these plugs can do? isn't that a more interesting question than 'how do these plugs compare at identical settings?'


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[Sammy]

Originally Posted by u b i k

but perhaps the waves plug sounds great with less action on the GR meter.

I find this to be true: hardly any movement on the meter, but still lots of character. YMMV.

[The Beatsmith]

Originally Posted by u b i k

i just came onto this thread a minute ago, i'm looking at those screenshots and the first thing i notice is that the duende's threshold is set about 5db higher than the waves, because the range on their knobs is different.

am i the only one noticing this? the waves sure *sounds* like it's grabbing more.

EDIT: okay, i see someone else noticed this, but i also notice no one seems to care.

should i run this mix into the api, give you all a taste of transformer love on the top and bottom?


gregoire
del
ubk
.

Indeed, no one seems to care that the Duende test is totally flawed either. Oh well.

[Geert van den Berg]

If you want to do a comparison test you'll have to set them up with a steady testtone first, offcourse you can't match the attack and release time this way, but at least you'll be absolutely sure the gain reduction is the same. Besides using the metering on the plugin you can also insert a level monitoring plugin after the compressors.

[six_wax]

Originally Posted by u b i k

should i run this mix into the api, give you all a taste of transformer love on the top and bottom?

ubik, I for one would LOVE to hear that comparison. thumbsup

[noiseflaw]

I have now decided to forget all these SSL compt tests, on any given day using all those comps again on a different piece of audio, even if the settings are relatively matched or similar - would yield different results.

People who liked one particular comp over another would likely pick a different one next time round on a different piece of music.

It is becoming quite amusing and ridiculous now and I think that all it has proved is how 'inconsistent' our ears are and how 'vague' our perception is given so much varied a/b choice.

Personally I have the Waves SSL and I just love it, really.
I will not buy Duende, cos I don't need it now - I will however buy The Liquid Mix, not for it's SSL Comp, but for all the other interesting, easy access and affordable Comp flavas it has.

Times are very good at the moment and I look forward to the immediate plug-in future with excitement and anticipation. The last 2 years has brought a great deal of improvement in the Plug-in world: Tritone stuff, Waves SSL, Liquid Mix - my mixes have become much 'nicer' to listen too with the added sonic bonus that all these recenty developments have imparted.

It's all good, but I'm genuinely done with all this SSL comparison now, it's not the only good 2buss comp!

ps. suggestions from all you comp experts out there for a creamy, smooth, warm and gluey 2 bus comp please, vintage styleee...............

[TrueZebra]

Originally Posted by noiseflaw

I have now decided to forget all these SSL compt tests, on any given day using all those comps again on a different piece of audio, even if the settings are relatively matched or similar - would yield different results.

People who liked one particular comp over another would likely pick a different one next time round on a different piece of music.

It is becoming quite amusing and ridiculous now and I think that all it has proved is how 'inconsistent' our ears are and how 'vague' our perception is given so much varied a/b choice.

Personally I have the Waves SSL and I just love it, really.
I will not buy Duende, cos I don't need it now - I will however buy The Liquid Mix, not for it's SSL Comp, but for all the other interesting, easy access and affordable Comp flavas it has.

Times are very good at the moment and I look forward to the immediate plug-in future with excitement and anticipation. The last 2 years has brought a great deal of improvement in the Plug-in world: Tritone stuff, Waves SSL, Liquid Mix - my mixes have become much 'nicer' to listen too with the added sonic bonus that all these recenty developments have imparted.

It's all good, but I'm genuinely done with all this SSL comparison now...
[/I]

completely true
a/b testing actually hardly work
except for extreme settings, that's why i loved the liquid mix soundfiles

i was first going to buy the LM.
I own some very nice plugins from sonalksis, UAD to tritone...
Reason for my switch to SSL:
1: less choice in what to pick out... 1 compressor and 2 types of EQ compaired to 40 and 20 on the LM.
2: more processing power
3: SSL
4: MAC first

the last year and a half a completely different world opened up for me in sonic.
Better preamps, better a/d d/a, better clock, better plugins all adding up to an amazing sound.
With the tools I have now, I have more than enough mixing possibilities at a very high quality rate.

The LM is a very good choice and the library will get updated so more models in the future... You might not use it on everything but that's how it always has been.

LM has been killed all over forums.

I'm curious for the Line 6 plugins coming this fall which features preamp models and the normal XT emulations.
It wouldn't surprise that the updates in sequencers like Logic would have a compressor emulator... just like every software offers speaker emulation.

More discussions, killing and a/b tests coming this fall !

[Mind-Over-Midi]

Originally Posted by bugsstar

It wouldn't surprise that the updates in sequencers like Logic would have a compressor emulator... just like every software offers speaker emulation.

Yeah, it's inevitable, most apps have two or three standard compressors already and there were no dual core CPU's around when most of them were developed, now we have dual cores, dual dual cores, quads, etc., most apps also have some sort of freeze fuction, convolution technology is becoming more common place........ Updates are bound to be coming down the pike soon. At the very least we should start to see vastly improved comps and EQ's come as standard app plugs. Interesting times indeed for audio.

[thermos]

Thanks for the test TRL. So I read that you think the liquid mix eqs are great as well, a step up from Hydratone. Do you still feel that way? If the eqs are that good then its kind of a done deal.

[Bounce]

Am I the only one who's used the Digidesign Impact comp on a drum bus and thought it killed? Just got that one in a bundle and I'm really digging it so far. I'm just sayin'...

[aussie_techie]

Originally Posted by u b i k

i just came onto this thread a minute ago, i'm looking at those screenshots and the first thing i notice is that the duende's threshold is set about 5db higher than the waves, because the range on their knobs is different.

am i the only one noticing this? the waves sure *sounds* like it's grabbing more.

EDIT: okay, i see someone else noticed this, but i also notice no one seems to care.

should i run this mix into the api, give you all a taste of transformer love on the top and bottom?


gregoire
del
ubk
.

the db scale is all relitive, you would have to test the plug-ins to come up with a rerlitive point to dbFS anyway.

[SUPADUPA]

mmmm ... well I liked the SSL Duende the best ...

all the instruments just sat nicely in their own space ...

not crowding each other , like all the others to varying degrees ...

Listen to the snare on the LM ... all splatty , with little leading edge ...

I like the bottom boost on the URS .... but still a little crowded sounding ...

I too would love to hear some hardware comparisons ... esp ... the API 2500 ..

anyone got one ?

[EduardoApolonia]

I passed the original file through a Smart C1, a Smart C2 and a SSL XLogic G compressor.

I normalized all files.
The threshold setting had to be a little diferent so it could have a similiar effect, having
a close gain reduction and RMS value. (if this is correct)

Here are the files in a remixed order.

[six_wax]

awesome. ubik, you wanna get the API hat in the ring?

[Old Dog]

I have NO idea what these are audio clips of. You said you ran the original file through the C1, C2, and SSL... so what are the other 2 files?

Anyway, my order of preference is as follows:

1, 5, 4, 3, 2.

1 and 5 were the biggest with plenty of meat while staying open and not mashing the highs. 4 was slightly less that way. 3 and 2 made the mix sound small and mangled the highend.

[EduardoApolonia]

the rest of the files...

[EduardoApolonia]

Originally Posted by Old Dog

I have NO idea what these are audio clips of. You said you ran the original file through the C1, C2, and SSL... so what are the other 2 files?

Sorry but it took a lot of time to upload the rest of the files.

[Old Dog]

So, are these all the files now? The original, the plugs, and the hardware? I guess I only listened to half the batch. Please clarify.