TDM support in Pro Tools 11 petition

[Marsdy]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

OR you'll move to 64 bit native simply because it outperforms your current rig!

Well I've got round that by using VE Pro... (which works flawlessly in PT BTW.)

[Marsdy]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

Only a handful of digi/Avid's plug-ins were TDM only and could even require reverse engineering from assembly code!

My old friend is part of the plug-in team and his office is in Daly City. He is under NDA and I've never asked him about work for that reason but I find it very hard to believe that all plug-in development has been moved to the Ukraine. A much more likely reason it's taking so long is the fact that Apple's latest OS no longer supports PPC code and 64 bit AAX development would logically take precedence over 32 bit AAX since 32 bit RTAS versions still work fine. Obviously AAX-DSP is not trivial due to chip limitations but the only real deadline is whenever 64 bit Pro Tools will be released.

Bob.... With respect... you're speculating.

What I'm saying isn't speculation or assumption on my part, it's what I've been told by a leading industry figure with an immense amount of expertise and experience AND insider knowledge.... He/she/they have given me permission to pass this information on AS LONG as I respect his/her/their anonymity for obvious reasons.

I really wish I could tell you guys exactly where I got this information but I just can't. I'm sticking to my promise.

Given my evasiveness, I can understand people's doubts and cynicism. I'm just some guy spreading rumours on the internet for all you know!!!! All I would say is, please bear in mind that ALL the leaked info I have posted just MIGHT be true... And if it is....????

Honestly, I have far better things to do than spend most of my weekend making this stuff up and most of today defending myself in this and other threads.

I'm just a very concerned TDM user watching Avid's upper management stagger from one bad decision to the next and putting the future of Pro Tools at risk....

[davelang68]

I don't think Marsdy's petition will work but I also don't see how it hurts anything. And I've enjoyed reading his posts. I see no reason for anyone to get on his case about it. Good luck Marsdy!

[DAW PLUS]

Of course Avid is not going to support TDM hardware. It is 10 years old, people WILL upgrade to HDX rather sooner then later. Others will stay with TDM for a few years maybe.
Why upgrade? If you want to impress customers, or really need those new features, you can't expect to stick with old hardware forever. How many 10 year old PC hardware components can you still call relevant these days? Personally I can only mention the LynxTwo interface.
PT10/TDM does not stop working just because PT11 is out. Milk that cow until you can't anymore, then move on.

[Marsdy]

Originally Posted by DAW PLUS

Of course Avid is not going to support TDM hardware. It is 10 years old, people WILL upgrade to HDX rather sooner then later. Others will stay with TDM for a few years maybe.
Why upgrade? If you want to impress customers, or really need those new features, you can't expect to stick with old hardware forever. How many 10 year old PC hardware components can you still call relevant these days? Personally I can only mention the LynxTwo interface.
PT10/TDM does not stop working just because PT11 is out. Milk that cow until you can't anymore, then move on.

Funny you should talk about 10 year old computer hardware. The technology used on HDX cards was defined SIX YEARS AGO..... Hardly state of the art. Those chips are OLD SCHOOL!!!!

HDX1 is undoubtedly more powerful that an Accel card. But by how much? I'd be getting the same number of Revibe instances per chip on both systems.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by Marsdy

Funny you should talk about 10 year old computer hardware. The technology used on HDX cards was defined SIX YEARS AGO..... Hardly state of the art. Those chips are OLD SCHOOL!!!!

HDX1 is undoubtedly more powerful that an Accel card. But by how much. I'd be getting the same number of Revibe instances per chip on both systems.

The point is the hardware was RELEASED 10 years ago. It'll still be SUPPORTED professionally for a while. Just not compatible with new releases.

I can't remember offhand since I don't have an HDX rig, but I'm fairly certain you can run more Revibes per HDX1 system than you can with an HD3.

[Marsdy]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

The point is the hardware was RELEASED 10 years ago. It'll still be SUPPORTED professionally for a while. Just not compatible with new releases.

I can't remember offhand since I don't have an HDX rig, but I'm fairly certain you can run more Revibes per HDX1 system than you can with an HD3.

No it's the other way around. Both systems are running two Revibe instances per chip. There are 18 chips on an HDX1 card, 27 on an HD3 system. Granted, Revibe is an unusual example but they've clearly got some optimisation to do there.

[Marsdy]

Originally Posted by davelang68

I don't think Marsdy's petition will work but I also don't see how it hurts anything. And I've enjoyed reading his posts. I see no reason for anyone to get on his case about it. Good luck Marsdy!

Thanks for the support Maybe my petition won't work but the alternative is to sit on my arse and do nothing....... Doing nothing is for losers.

[Joe Porto]

There are still studios running TDM on PT8 with G5 machines. That's why Avid keeps PT8 software available in their download section. TDM users have the option to stick with PT10 and use there system for many years. Personally, I don't want Avid using their resources to accommodate 10 year old technology. I want them to move forward, and I too will move forward with the new technology.

One only has to look at Cubase or Logic to see how supporting legacy features and trying to accommodate legacy users ends up in a convoluted mess of unnecessary complexity.

[XJR]

Originally Posted by Joe Porto

There are still studios running TDM on PT8 with G5 machines. That's why Avid keeps PT8 software available in their download section. TDM users have the option to stick with PT10 and use there system for many years. Personally, I don't want Avid using their resources to accommodate 10 year old technology. I want them to move forward, and I too will move forward with the new technology.

One only has to look at Cubase or Logic to see how supporting legacy features and trying to accommodate legacy users ends up in a convoluted mess of unnecessary complexity.

Never mind PT8 on G5 machines, there are still studios here in the UK using G4 Macs and PT6.4 with 888's and Mix core \ Mix Farm cards. That was and still is just about all anyone needed to track and mix rock \ indie bands.

But yeah tying to incorporate legacy support every single time you came out with a new release is just gonna cause problems.

[Marsdy]

Originally Posted by XJR

Never mind PT8 on G5 machines, there are still studios here in the UK using G4 Macs and PT6.4 with 888's and Mix core \ Mix Farm cards. That was and still is just about all anyone needed to track and mix rock \ indie bands.

But yeah tying to incorporate legacy support every single time you came out with a new release is just gonna cause problems.

Avid have done a pretty good job of doing this in PT10 no?..... RTAS, TDM, AAX and AAX DSP all in the one version. Why not carry this on in version 11 until there are some damn plug-ins available in HDX format.... There's naff all out there at the moment.

[work2do]

There are a few pages of great responses to your DUC version of this petition awaiting your return TDM support in Pro Tools 11 petition. - Avid Audio Forums

[AJ Reynolds]

Originally Posted by Marsdy

Avid have done a pretty good job of doing this in PT10 no?..... RTAS, TDM, AAX and AAX DSP all in the one version. Why not carry this on in version 11 until there are some damn plug-ins available in HDX format.... There's naff all out there at the moment.

Some developers are not developing AAX because RTAS and TDM still work with the latest version of Pro Tools.

[nickelironsteel]

AAX-DSP is doa. native is the future. lets hope they dont kill pro tools completely with further mismanagement. the competitors are strong

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by Marsdy

Bob.... With respect... you're speculating.

What I'm saying isn't speculation or assumption on my part, it's what I've been told by a leading industry figure with an immense amount of expertise and experience AND insider knowledge...

Your source is still probably repeating second or third hand information unless he/she is actually part of Avid's development team which I would tend to doubt.

I think one can speculate with a positive or a negative spin. I choose positive because all of the folks I've known from both Avid and Waves are really really smart. My biggest question is if HDX is actually a replacement for TDM rather than part of something else that hasn't been revealed yet.

If one speculates that HDX is only a replacement for TDM, I agree there are some big questions. On the other hand I think there is way too much we don't know about yet. What I do know is that Avid really needs a game-changer and they are not stupid. A seemingly less capable replacement for TDM is obviously not a game-changer. That's why I think there is probably a lot more to the story.

[Marsdy]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

Your source is still probably repeating second or third hand information unless he/she is actually part of Avid's development team which I would tend to doubt.

I think one can speculate with a positive or a negative spin. I choose positive because all of the folks I've known from both Avid and Waves are really really smart. My biggest question is if HDX is actually a replacement for TDM rather than part of something else that hasn't been revealed yet.

If one speculates that HDX is only a replacement for TDM, I agree there are some big questions. On the other hand I think there is way too much we don't know about yet. What I do know is that Avid really needs a game-changer and they are not stupid. A seemingly less capable replacement for TDM is obviously not a game-changer. That's why I think there is probably a lot more to the story.

Well at the risk of repeating myself, I can't say anything about my source... You may or may not be correct...I couldn't say

The rest of your post I fully agree with. Avid does indeed need a game changer.... that has some 3rd party plug-in support!!!!

[Marsdy]

Originally Posted by work2do

There are a few pages of great responses to your DUC version of this petition awaiting your return TDM support in Pro Tools 11 petition. - Avid Audio Forums

Yeah I can find my own thread thanks..... DUH!!!!

[T_R_S]

Originally Posted by nickelironsteel

AAX-DSP is doa. native is the future. lets hope they dont kill pro tools completely with further mismanagement. the competitors are strong

Not in my world 64 channels of I/o is not enough.
I work mostly in 96K I frequently max out an HDX2 system with using native plug-ins too.

[FlowFish]

... I have been told by a leading industry figure with an immense amount of expertise and experience that it is perfectly possible to support TDM in a 64 bit version of Pro Tools.

It's prolly true - I mean, with software, you can almost always throw more work at it to make it do what you want, right?

But it's probably a ton of work...
I mean to start with, RTAS and TDM plug-ins are 32-bit, right? So they're not going to run inside a 64-bit app on their own accord. ('member TDM plug-ins have a piece that runs the UI inside ProTools, and a piece that runs on the TDM cards - the UI piece is 32-bit) So right there you've got a huge obstacle. Now you could do something clever like make a special separate 32-bit app to run the plug-ins and talk to the TDM cards, while the main Pro Tools is 64-bit and it could find some way to talk to that 32-bit plug-in running app. It kinda sounds like a hack, a lot of work, and you still don't get the benefits of running 64-bit plug-ins.

Or they could revise the ancient TDM / RTAS plug-in formats to support 64-bit, and try to convince all the plug-in companies to do a bunch of work to 64-bit-upgrade all these TDM plug-ins that run on hardware that isn't even made anymore. The plug-in makers probably wouldn't sell many new copies of those 64-bit TDM plug-ins to pay for their effort - just upgrades, which we'd want for free in any case. Seems like a tough sell there. Why not spend that effort bringing the plug-ins to the new format?

Anyway, may be off on the technical details - just sayin' it sounds like it ain't worth it, though it would surely be convenient for us.

_Flow

[Marsdy]

Many thanks to Stiff for mentioning the petition on.... ProToolerBlog

It's bought in quite a lot more signatures this week so we're just one shy of 550!!!