Cons of Cubase?

[FLYINGJAY]

Originally Posted by amemorystream

I've been using Cubase for years and I've never really explored other workstations. I was just wondering what aspects of Cubase other people thought hold it back/ make it inferior to other DAWs.

Nothing actually,logic still is the best bundle but cubase has mature much recently.

In terms of the sample content with cubase,halion sonic se,groove agent one,retrolongue and pad shop,cubase for a pretty far these days.

MIDI as good as logic audio editing as good as protools IMHO.cubase is like those 2 daws combined to make one super daw.

I have all 3,I choose cubase.

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[jetam]

Well the only things it lacks are the ones that you get with Nuendo + NEK.

[florent]

Bad OSX performance,the mixer is 'to Busy",those 2 things I don't like, even that I use a lot Cubase, in good harmony with other DAW's in both platforms Win,OSX.

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by amemorystream

I've been using Cubase for years and I've never really explored other workstations. I was just wondering what aspects of Cubase other people thought hold it back/ make it inferior to other DAWs.

Owned Cubase for 15+ years, still kinda like it, some of the more advanced features. Subjective as usual (and some fans will go "meh, don't need it" to anything on a con list...) but you asked so... a few things...

- No realtime clip fx.
- No quick bounce of instruments.
- Frozen bits don't move, ever. (freeze something and insert global time)
- No multitrack elastic audio editing.
- No moving mixer channels around directly.
- Engine can't play more than one clip at a time on a track. (overlaps?)
- Poor track mangement (can hide?, no track list)
- Can't see inserts and sends at the same time across the mixer.
- Mixer doesn't stretch or maximize.
- No source destination navigation in the mixer. (tons of scrolling)
- No non-contiguous range selection editing.
- No quick temp fader grouping (shift select? nope)
- Window management is very poor on a single monitor.
- No RMS or K metering.
- Too many windows and the awful "Stay on Top" thing.

Great product, dated interface and workflow in many ways. Imo... Mmv. Those areas, UI and UI workflow are where Cubase is - really inferior - to some, not so much "features and functions", and especially not with midi features, but general basic UI workflow and methodologies.

[scoring4films]

Originally Posted by Lawrence

- No quick bounce of instruments.

That's a big one for me too.


A simple way to route and manipulate MIDI controller data is still needed, e.g. send mod wheel to multiple destinations, with editable min/max/invert for each send (as can be done in Ableton Live).

Full featured LFOs for generating audio track automation would be nice, esp. if they were integrated into the existing automation lanes. Drawing/scaling automation waves by hand is not very effective, esp. if you need them tempo synched. At the moment we're forced to create automation with the MIDI LFO plug, the "merge MIDI in loop" function and then cutting/pasting automation data as a work around. Not particularly powerful or convenient.

Long list of other small issues. E.g. VST3 plug library can't be organized by user, activating VSTi outputs is a bizarre/frustrating one-at-a-time process (i.e. must open/close menu for each individual activation), opening a track's MIDI editor forces the track to be record enabled, listening back to realtime render only possible if "control room" feature active (which is very inconvenient to use in my case), etc.

[rksguit]

Originally Posted by Paul in SoCal

In general the drawbacks of Cubase are of a graphical/windowing nature. If you take Sonar, for example, you can float and resize any window you want and put it on any screen you wish. In Cubase, there's only a few pages you can float and move to another screen, and it always comes with limitations on resizing/positioning. If Steinberg addresses that with version 7, Cubase will become near-perfect.

Which is just one of the reasons I keep coming back to Sonar,yet so many keep telling me Cubase is "more Pro",what THAT is supposed to mean is anyones guess?

[FLYINGJAY]

Originally Posted by Paul in SoCal

Oh yeah, didn't think about that. You guys are totally right, it's probably the most annoying one, but also the first to be addressed in version 7 (so I've heard in the Steinberg forum...)

I guess offline bounce isn't fast enough?

I stemmed out a whole session in 2 minutes.800 mb.

I don't know what the guy need with ELASTIQUE audio,but I came tempo change the whole session(audio and vst),and pitch change multiple tracks at a time.

Maybe he will chime back in and explain the problem he's having?



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[dino321]

Originally Posted by Paul in SoCal

Well, for start Sonar doesn't have note expression, which allows you for some deep MIDI editing down to the single note and independently of channel. No other DAW has that so far. Also the scoring page in Sonar is a joke: virtually unusable.

For many other things, I love Sonar. In fact, I use both.

+1 Perfectly stated the weakness of Sonar.

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by FLYINGJAY

I don't know what the guy need with ELASTIQUE audio,but I came tempo change the whole session(audio and vst),and pitch change multiple tracks at a time.

Maybe he will chime back in and explain the problem he's having?

You're kidding right? I mean, that's not even what elastic audio is. Think Logic's Flex.

Cubase has audio warp, "elastic audio", warp markers, but it's kinda limited iin practice since you can only edit one clip at a time with it? I have no idea what your quote above has to do with any or that.

I know you're a big Cubase fan, so am I, a fan of Steinberg, but the thread is about "Cons"... so try to relax a little by not trying to explain away others subjective cons.

They all have cons... even Cubase.

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by FLYINGJAY

I guess offline bounce isn't fast enough?

To render an instrument in Cubase requires printing a stem. "No quick bounce" means exactly that, you can't just select a midi clip, hit a key, and get an audio file the same exact size in a few seconds.

You can't select midi clips across multiple different tracks, hit a key, and get audio renders for all of them that's only the sizes of the clips on each track, varying lengths, not stems all the same length as the loop range. Audio clips, bounce instruments "in place".

Try to relax, it's only software.

[Lawrence]

For some balance ... before Jay has a stroke ... ... I love the Cubase Logical Editors. Haven't ever seen anything quite like them.

[Benmrx]

To first clarify, I have PT, Cubase, Logic, Ableton, DP, and Reaper. I use PT for audio and "bands", and Cubase for MIDI and "production". Don't use Logic, or any of the other DAW's anymore at all.., except occasionally I'll open up Reaper to use in Rewire mode with PT.

Start Rant....

Cubase' mixer is THEEEE WORST!!! Absolute number one gripe. The fact that you have to memorize some little abstract icons to see the inserts, or sends, ect...., and never at the same time is amazingly awful. The 'inspector' is great, but it's no substitue for a proper mixer.

The way Cubase handles 'Lanes' on MIDI tracks is horreeeblay. The lanes just pile on top of each other, like 'tracks' do..... I.E., they all play at the same time. WHY? Who uses that? Really curious!!! It's a huge PIA to actually create 'takes' on a MIDI track because of this. It works fine, and exactly how you think it would for audio tracks, but it's completely different for MIDI tracks.

The audio editing is horrendous in Cubase IMO. There's what.... 3 levels of windows to go through? The main arrange/edit window...., then into the 'part editor'..., then into the 'sample editor'???? Again... WHY? Why not just allow all the deep editing right in the arrange/edit window ala Pro Tools?

And to end this little rant...., I love Cubase. There's obviously a TON that like about it, because it IS my number one choice for MIDI/Production work.

.... P.S., Lawrence, if you love the logical editors, then check out Reaper in your spare time. I could never make friends with the program, but it gets intense with that type of customization.

[FLYINGJAY]

Originally Posted by Lawrence

For some balance ... before Jay has a stroke ... ... I love the Cubase Logical Editors. Haven't ever seen anything quite like them.

No I'm cool man,I just do most of things that are being talked about.I just make a few clicks no big deal.

A guy that mix in protools was amazed that I could batch stem files all at once,offline as well.

Then cubase opens another session with all the audio files.

There might not be a MIDI to audio key command,but I offline bounce and it import the audio file.

I never need freeze anymore,but when I did,if I needed change I would unfreeze make adjustment then re-freeze.

I'm not upset guys,I don't see any of the mentioned cons in any daw.I try to use them in the up most similar way.

Maybe thats why I'm used to waiting 10 seconds for a small section offline bounce(if I need to use it).I have so many other things to do,so letting the daw process allow me clear my head anyway.

About ELASTIQUE audio,I thought cubase 6.0 had it,as well as logic.its the pitch shifter right?

I thought tempo change was part of it as well,can somebody explain?



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[FLYINGJAY]

Originally Posted by Lawrence

You're kidding right? I mean, that's not even what elastic audio is. Think Logic's Flex.

Cubase has audio warp, "elastic audio", warp markers, but it's kinda limited iin practice since you can only edit one clip at a time with it? I have no idea what your quote above has to do with any or that.

I know you're a big Cubase fan, so am I, a fan of Steinberg, but the thread is about "Cons"... so try to relax a little by not trying to explain away others subjective cons.

They all have cons... even Cubase.

I may be wrong but I thought ELASTIQUE audio was just the algorithm it self,not how its implemented in the daws workflow?

From my readings protools,logic ,cubase and live all have it?

What version of cubase do you have?

BTW audio warp sucks,tempo track is where its at.its very natural sounding.I change a session tempo by more that 70 bpm,and it still sounded great.

https://www.steinberg.net/forum/view...hp?f=19&t=2952

Have you checked out the different algorithms?
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[FLYINGJAY]

Check out the tape algo ion YouTube awesome!

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[wagz]

My main prob. with Cubase right now is the way it's handling REX files in the Mediabay and they way Steinberg seems to ignore customer requests to address known issues with Cubase.

The REX files I preview are completely different speeds that the project and they sound like they are operating at different rates than the Project. I mentioned this on the Cubase forum. Apparently, it is well-known that this "feature" has been broken for years.

[jweisbin]

probably a bit off topic, but I got these prices from Sweetwater (these are full versions, not Cross or upgrades):

Cubase $500

Nuendo + NEK $1800 + $ 300 (wha…?)

Ableton Live $500

Sonar X1 production suite $500 (X2?)

Protools 10 $700 (native, not HD version, and you have to add $ to get more channels, etc)

Reaper $225

MOTU DP 8 $500

Presonus Studio One Pro $400

Logic $200

If you have been happy with Cubase and know how to use it well, then there's probably no reason to try anything else (unless you just want to learn about it). But if you are looking to get into something else, Logic has almost everything any of the others has, and more, and is the cheapest!

BTW, Nuendo with NEK is nearly feature identical to Cubase, just a bit more video stuff and surround sound features. The price difference is inexplicable.

I like Cubase for some work flows (especially love the gain handles), but Logic is my workhorse. I like the combination of Logic with Live, but could easily do without Live.

[FLYINGJAY]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

The way Cubase handles 'Lanes' on MIDI tracks is horreeeblay. The lanes just pile on top of each other, like 'tracks' do..... I.E., they all play at the same time. WHY? Who uses that? Really curious!!! It's a huge PIA to actually create 'takes' on a MIDI track because of this. It works fine, and exactly how you think it would for audio tracks, but it's completely different for MIDI tracks.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what this paragraph mean?

Here are the options to NOT stack ANY tracks.the options are on the transport


Or you can duplicate the track as many times as needed and record you one shots or what ever needs its own lane.

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[Leevi]

Nowadays I use Logic Pro, but I have used Cubase 4, 5 & 6 on Windows. These things bugged me the most.

- Window management hilariously bad
- Too much clicking all around
- Mixer is too messy
- Inspector could be much better

[chk23]

Originally Posted by Paul in SoCal

In general the drawbacks of Cubase are of a graphical/windowing nature. If you take Sonar, for example, you can float and resize any window you want and put it on any screen you wish. In Cubase, there's only a few pages you can float and move to another screen, and it always comes with limitations on resizing/positioning. If Steinberg addresses that with version 7, Cubase will become near-perfect.

It's a not very well known trick but you can move almost every of cubases windows (yes, even mixers, controlroom controls and so on) out of the main window on any other screen by right clicking somewhere on a plain background area of the window and unlock it from the parent window (I'm at work right now and don't know the exact title of the menu item, but I will post it later, if someone's interested).

[4damind]

For me the only bad thing is the window management. I hate this multi-document interface. But hopefully in some month with Cubase 7 they will have fixed this.

[norbury brook]

Originally Posted by FLYINGJAY

No I'm cool man,I just do most of things that are being talked about.I just make a few clicks no big deal.

A guy that mix in protools was amazed that I could batch stem files all at once,offline as well.

Then cubase opens another session with all the audio files.

There might not be a MIDI to audio key command,but I offline bounce and it import the audio file.

I never need freeze anymore,but when I did,if I needed change I would unfreeze make adjustment then re-freeze.

I'm not upset guys,I don't see any of the mentioned cons in any daw.I try to use them in the up most similar way.

Maybe thats why I'm used to waiting 10 seconds for a small section offline bounce(if I need to use it).I have so many other things to do,so letting the daw process allow me clear my head anyway.

About ELASTIQUE audio,I thought cubase 6.0 had it,as well as logic.its the pitch shifter right?

I thought tempo change was part of it as well,can somebody explain?



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my views exactly. I agree about the mixer though , I prefer Reaper's mixer.

one of my main gripes is not being able to save multi timbral track pre sets for VI's. This has led to me using multiple instrument tracks a lot these days, however for Drums, superior or BFD not being able to just have track pre-sets is a PIA.


Talking of audio editing: you can edit at sample level directly in the arrange page, or a double click takes you to the audio editor, I don't understand the poster who said you need to go through 3 levels?



MC

MC

[norbury brook]

Originally Posted by chk23

It's a not very well known trick but you can move almost every of cubases windows (yes, even mixers, controlroom controls and so on) out of the main window on any other screen by right clicking somewhere on a plain background area of the window and unlock it from the parent window (I'm at work right now and don't know the exact title of the menu item, but I will post it later, if someone's interested).

Yes a lot of people don't seem to understand that, what you're talking about is right clicking on a window and selecting 'always on top' that way your windows float and be positioned anywhere.


MC

[chk23]

Originally Posted by jweisbin

If you have been happy with Cubase and know how to use it well, then there's probably no reason to try anything else (unless you just want to learn about it). But if you are looking to get into something else, Logic has almost everything any of the others has, and more, and is the cheapest!

Not if you're a WinPC user and have to add the price of a Mac Pro to your calculation...

[chk23]

Originally Posted by norbury brook

Yes a lot of people don't seem to understand that, what you're talking about is right clicking on a window and selecting 'always on top' that way your windows float and be positioned anywhere.


MC

Yes, that was the menu item - thanks!

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by FLYINGJAY

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what this paragraph mean?

Here are the options to NOT stack ANY tracks.the options are on the transportAttachment 312897


Or you can duplicate the track as many times as needed and record you one shots or what ever needs its own lane.Attachment 312898

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Only seems to be useful when loop/cycle recording..., which is not what I'm doing. Duplicating tracks also isn't too practical when you're working with a 150+ track template. 10 various instruments with 5 or so 'takes', jumps to 50 tracks REAL quick!

[e-are]

Originally Posted by Lawrence

Owned Cubase for 15+ years, still kinda like it, some of the more advanced features. Subjective as usual (and some fans will go "meh, don't need it" to anything on a con list...) but you asked so... a few things...

- No realtime clip fx.
- No quick bounce of instruments.
- Frozen bits don't move, ever. (freeze something and insert global time)
- No multitrack elastic audio editing.
- No moving mixer channels around directly.
- Engine can't play more than one clip at a time on a track. (overlaps?)
- Poor track mangement (can hide?, no track list)
- Can't see inserts and sends at the same time across the mixer.
- Mixer doesn't stretch or maximize.
- No source destination navigation in the mixer. (tons of scrolling)
- No non-contiguous range selection editing.
- No quick temp fader grouping (shift select? nope)
- Window management is very poor on a single monitor.
- No RMS or K metering.
- Too many windows and the awful "Stay on Top" thing.

Great product, dated interface and workflow in many ways. Imo... Mmv. Those areas, UI and UI workflow are where Cubase is - really inferior - to some, not so much "features and functions", and especially not with midi features, but general basic UI workflow and methodologies.

I think Lawrence is spot on. I use cubase, have logic also but at the moment still prefer cubase, and really dig it overall. Those cons are not a deal breaker by any means but it would definitely mke life a lil easier.

[FLYINGJAY]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

Only seems to be useful when loop/cycle recording..., which is not what I'm doing. Duplicating tracks also isn't too practical when you're working with a 150+ track template. 10 various instruments with 5 or so 'takes', jumps to 50 tracks REAL quick!

I don't know of a daw that separate MIDI lanes as you play it?

You may need to demix by note,that separates every MIDI note to its own lane.you might get 5 or so MIDI channel 1's,with the solo MIDI performance having its own track.


I use that a lot,it does give great control over drum performances.

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[masaski]

Cubase user for 15 years, and my main gripe about it's sound.

Side by side, logic wins hands down soundwise IMO.