Best interface for my needs?

[Masaaki]

Actually M-Audio C600 has 4 mic preamps, and it's around $250. But I haven't heard anybody around here, asking questions, so that tells ....something?

Okay, Focusrite has this one:

Forte | Focusrite
This looks like Duet?

Other rack units are Presonus 1818VSL, M audio Fast Track Ultra 8R.

RME Babyface can be expanded via lightpipe.


edit: Sweetwater has Forte @ $600. Clearly, they are competing with Babyface.

[guitarlifter]

Originally Posted by Paul in SoCal

Kinda hard to suggest anything without a budget. I would say RME UFX, but it's two grands... On the cheapest end of the spectrum, maybe a Focusrite Scarlett 18i6 ($300.)

No, actually those were great recommendations! Actually, an interface that fits in a rack might actually be something I'd like to consider as well especially if I am going to be getting a rack pretty soon anyway. I checked out both, and I like them both. Like I said, if I see the justification in the cost, I'll strongly consider it. Having both a portable interface (Focusrite Scarlett 18i6) and a really nice interface (RME UFX) could be a nice duo.

[guitarlifter]

Originally Posted by Paul in SoCal

I use UFX in the studio and Babyface with my laptop. Didn't suggest the latter because you need more than two inputs (sure, it can be expanded via ADAT, but then it's no longer portable.) Extremely satisfied with both. I doubt I'll ever switch interface brand, unless maybe if they go out of business...

Well, I'd still probably use both with my laptop, but the Babyface looks interesting. Besides, would I really be carrying around That many mics? If I'm going to be doing serious recording, it'll probably be in a home studio. So with the Babyface, all I have available to me is one line and one mic input? Also, how much does the A/D resolution matter?

I also found this interface:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AudioBox44/ - Presonus Audiobox VSL

It has four preamps, which would allow me for me to plug in both lines coming from my guitar in addition to two microphones. That makes things a little more flexible on the recording side, but I'm also concerned about recording quality compared to something like the Babyface, which may be higher quality. I couldn't say for sure because of my inexperience. I do also have to plug this interface in whereas the Babyface or the Komplete Audio 6 can go simply on USB power.

Is it possible to hook a preamp up to an interface in case the interface does not have enough preamps in it to power everything but still has extra channels? Like for example, let's say that an interface has 2 preamps and 6 line-ins on the back. Could I lead a line from a preamp to one of those line-ins and get phantom power that way? Having these questions answered may help me make my decision easier. It's also important that the inputs be in stereo.

[guitarlifter]

Originally Posted by Paul in SoCal

Actually Babyface comes with two preamps and one instrument-level input (you cannot use all three at the same time though.)
But, like I said, it also sports an ADAT port, which means it can be expanded with a multiple-preamp unit.




Babyface is definitely a higher quality interface.



Well, that's one of the beauties of Babyface (an ADAT port.) As far as I know, none of the other sub-$500 interfaces mentioned here have that capability.




None of the inputs are stereo in any interface on the market, you'd need to use two inputs for that.

Ok then, so it would be possible for my guitar to have its two lines be hooked up to a preamp, and then all signals being led into that preamp can leave that preamp via a mono signal into the Babyface in addition to a vocal mic also hooking into the Babyface? If so, what portable preamp would I want in order to accomplish this? Obviously the Pendulum SPS-1 isn't all that portable like a laptop is, so something that can fit in a backpack would be preferable. The preamp (or whatever piece of equipment you recommend me) would need at least two stereo channels.

In case you're curious as to what is comprising the two lines from my guitar, one is a Sunrise/K&K mini combo, and the other is a DPA 4061. The line comprising the DPA 4061 would be ok to have in mono, but the one comprising the Sunrise/K&K combo would not, and I'd like to have both in my recording.

[Masaaki]

Originally Posted by guitarlifter

Ok then, so it would be possible for my guitar to have its two lines be hooked up to a preamp, and then all signals being led into that preamp can leave that preamp via a mono signal into the Babyface in addition to a vocal mic also hooking into the Babyface? If so, what portable preamp would I want in order to accomplish this? Obviously the Pendulum SPS-1 isn't all that portable like a laptop is, so something that can fit in a backpack would be preferable. The preamp (or whatever piece of equipment you recommend me) would need at least two stereo channels.

In case you're curious as to what is comprising the two lines from my guitar, one is a Sunrise/K&K mini combo, and the other is a DPA 4061. The line comprising the DPA 4061 would be ok to have in mono, but the one comprising the Sunrise/K&K combo would not, and I'd like to have both in my recording.

You know, we often discuss portability of a single gear like Babyface in a backpack, but when you have other stuff, guitar cases, preamps, microphones, mic stands, and your laptop etc....they all add up and talking about the portability of a signle gear has little impact on the amount of overall luggage.

In your case, Babyface itself obviously doesn't give you enough I/O, because it has only two analog ins, and you have 3 line ins and 1 mic at least. One unit and relatively cheap I would recommend is Scarlett 18i6, which has 2 mic preamps on the front, and 4 line ins on the back. It's kind of half-brick size, and not really comfortable if you put it in your backpack, but it's portable enough. I used to own Focusrite Saffire Pro 24, which is pretty much the firewire version of Scarlett 18i6, for location recording very similar to yours.

Another option is Presonus 1818 VSL, which is 1 rack unit, but you can carry it if you use 'rack bag' (from Gator or SKB). Rack bags are light weight but protect your rack gears very well on the go. You need to carry all these things in a car anyway, though. 1818VSL has 8 mic preamps/line inputs as combo jacks on the front, so you can mix line ins from your preamps, mics from cabinet, vocal etc with just this unit. Roland Octa-capture is also very similar and does a little bit more than Presonus 1818VSL.

Talking about expandability of the audio interface, how soon are you going to start drum tracking at home studio? Is your room treated for that task? I know, thinking about audio interface is giving you whole 'future possibilities' and dreams, but tracking a drum set using many microphones at home is another level of 'headaches'. So you probably need to prioritize what you need right now.

Hope this helps.

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

Originally Posted by Masaaki

You know, we often discuss portability of a single gear like Babyface in a backpack, but when you have other stuff, guitar cases, preamps, microphones, mic stands, and your laptop etc....they all add up and talking about the portability of a signle gear has little impact on the amount of overall luggage....

This is a very good point. I've done boatloads of remote recording in many different situations, all of which required a lot more gear than anybody here usually talks about. Once I put in mics, mic cable, headphones, headphone distro, mic stands, the laptop and interface, power cables and extension cords... and my setup is flexible and can adapt to the needs of the situation.

Around town I use soft bags like those shopping bags you can now buy in the supermarkets, mine being bags from trade shows. It usually takes my laptop case and at least four or five of those soft bags. I have a half-dozen lightweight mic stands that roll into a soft case. Mics are are carefully padded and packed into the soft bags.

For fly dates, everything needs to be in hard cases, especially the mics. Fold-down dollies are a requirement.

I've used multiple interfaces on remotes since switching to laptop remote recording. I've used the Multiface, Digiface with converters, and Fireface800. I used for the front end various 8 channel single rack space preamps from Oram, ATI etc. but they are all full-U wide pieces, as are the Mytek converters I use when I need to take more converters that the interface supports. (The rack gear travels in a 4U canvas rack bag with a shoulder strap.)

When it is all said and done, I usually end up looking like one of those pack camels in a desert movie.

The simplest rig I have is a laptop, an Akai EIE Pro and four lavaliers, but even that takes up some space. But it -would- fit in a backpack.

With all of that in play, size and ounces count. If I was looking at a rig today I would have to put the Babyface on my list until I found something better/lighter/smaller.

[guitarlifter]

Ok, so since last night, I have thought of two solutions to my ordeal. If I want to go with the babyface, I have to go with two mics only for recording like a vocal mic and an instrument mic. That would work, but I'd have to live with setting up two mic stands anywhere I'd go. If I get something like the Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 or the Focusrite Scarlett 18i6, I'd have one to two mics going into the preamp channels, and I could have one to two battery-operated one-channel preamps, one of ehich could even mix the stereo signal into mono. Then these one to two preamps would lead into the line inputs on the back of the interface. If I only use one mic, I could just have the mono line from my guitar run straight into one of the preamps on the front of the interface.

I like option one for its ability to not have to be plugged into the wall, but the Komplete Audio 6 provides that same flexibility as well. Option two does get rid of one mic stand and mic, but it adds two preamps although the one to two preamps is still a simpler setup than the two mics.

[punkjesuit]

You can pick up a Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 for $300 new at Proaudiostar.com
It runs firewire, but if that is feasible for you, its more reliable than USB.

Its a solid interface, rack mount, best pres for the price, and damn good A/D/A converters.
8 XLR/TRS inputs.
It'll be more than enough, and keep you from needing an interface upgrade. You can also purchase a second unit and tether via ADAT cable to have 16 inputs running on the same source clock.

The unit also has two independent headphone outs, tons of I/O routing options, and ability for mono, stereo and all the way up to 7.1 surround.

The only thing Id recommend, and that is for any interface is to pick up at least a halfway decent mic pre, so that you can have more input gain for really quiet sources/mics, and a cleaner source running into your interface.

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

Originally Posted by punkjesuit

It runs firewire, but if that is feasible for you, its more reliable than USB.

There doesn't appear to be any justification for this statement, given that many manufacturers are releasing new USB interfaces and not new Firewire interfaces. Having used both formats, I don't see a problem with either
so long as the drivers are well written.

[guitarlifter]

What about this? This is concerning my main home studio recording gear. How about I use an REM UFX, use the four pres for 2 vocal mics/2 instrument mics (possibly with separate preamps for those . . . Pacifica?), and then I can use the two channels in the Pendulum SPS 1 to mix my guitar and send that signal (via line? Not sure here since I don't have a Pendulum yet and am still learning here) to one of the inputs on the back of the UFX. I think that would be a good option since the Pendulum SPS-1 is a fantastic guitar preamp that would rid me of the concern of having to have more pres in my interface. Of course I could always expand things later with that setup too if I wanted via ADAT.

I'm still up in air about my portable options although the above option could be carried in a rack bag if I really wanted to. I'm a big guy, so I don't mind carrying stuff, but I'd still like something tiny. I'm actually thinking maybe the babyface because I could still do two mics with that and have a pretty portable setup that way.

Thoughts?

[Masaaki]

UFX will do the job, definitely. But Scarlett 18i6 (or presonus 1818VSL) will also do the job, since you are asking decent quality of ADC for line inputs from the preamps. It appears you haven't owned any audio interface, so I suggest to start reasonably priced ones and upgrade if you are not satisfied with the results. YMMV of course!

[CPhoenix]

RME UFX is one of the best interfaces you can find around. It constantly gets compared to the real high-end stuff (ie Mytek, Lavry, Prism Sound).

I would start smaller... b/c there's a good chance you won't appreciate starting off with one of the best interfaces.

In all honestly... i'm kinda happy I worked my way up starting from an MAudio MobilePre lol. I learned my craft, learned what I wanted to do... got serious... saw the limitations w/ inferior gear. Upgraded to MAudio Firewire410, and then to Echo AUdiofire4. Great unit I have now... allows me to do professional work at an un-professional price. Once I grab the UFX... interface upgrading will be done.

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

Originally Posted by guitarlifter

What about this? This is concerning my main home studio recording gear. How about I use an REM UFX, use the four pres for 2 vocal mics/2 instrument mics (possibly with separate preamps for those . . . Pacifica?), and then I can use the two channels in the Pendulum SPS 1 to mix my guitar ....

Thoughts?

I love the Pendulum, by the way. Nice choice, Greg makes great gear.

Just from the cost standpoint, the UFX is a bit pricy. For example, the Babyface coupled with a Behringer ADA8000 would give you 8 channels plus the Babyface analog channels for under a grand instead of $2300. (And I'm not comparing the converters, just saying that in a live rig I'm betting you'd be equally happy.) And if you really hate the Behringer they are always re-saleable, you could put a different front end in place and still be in that same total pricerange.

That said, if it were me and I liked the UFX that much and could afford it, I'd buy it.

Yes, there is no reason you can't plug the Pendulum into any of the line ins of the UFX. No problem.

[guitarlifter]

Originally Posted by Bill@WelcomeHome

I love the Pendulum, by the way. Nice choice, Greg makes great gear.

Just from the cost standpoint, the UFX is a bit pricy. For example, the Babyface coupled with a Behringer ADA8000 would give you 8 channels plus the Babyface analog channels for under a grand instead of $2300. (And I'm not comparing the converters, just saying that in a live rig I'm betting you'd be equally happy.) And if you really hate the Behringer they are always re-saleable, you could put a different front end in place and still be in that same total pricerange.

That said, if it were me and I liked the UFX that much and could afford it, I'd buy it.

Yes, there is no reason you can't plug the Pendulum into any of the line ins of the UFX. No problem.

It's awesome to hear that I can use the Pendulum for recording. Would you recommend a dedicated preamp for my mics as well such as a Pacifica or are the preamps on a UFX good enough?

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

Originally Posted by guitarlifter

It's awesome to hear that I can use the Pendulum for recording. Would you recommend a dedicated preamp for my mics as well such as a Pacifica or are the preamps on a UFX good enough?

I've never used the UFX, and I have had multiple preamps for many years. preamps are a whole wide world of sounds and colors or lack of color. osCommerce is a source to hear a bunch of the best. Well worth the cost, given the cost of a single preamp.


If it were me, I'd probably not run out and buy a pre until I heard a few, did some recording with my rig, and determined that I indeed wanted more than what I had. Then I'd probably rent until I found the right one, again because the cost of a pre is worth that investment.

[punkjesuit]

Originally Posted by Bill@WelcomeHome

There doesn't appear to be any justification for this statement, given that many manufacturers are releasing new USB interfaces and not new Firewire interfaces. Having used both formats, I don't see a problem with either
so long as the drivers are well written.

Originally Posted by Paul in SoCal

Totally second that. I have UFX in the studio, which can work with both USB and FW. I've tried to compare performance on both protocols and I really didn't see any difference. And my Babyface has been stable as a boulder, never had any issues.

What do you mean there is no justification? Just because you didn't experience an issue personally doesn't mean that its a more stable method of data transfer?
Firewire consistently tests faster transfer rates that USB 2.0, and is therefore more stable. Thats like saying my Ford Focus didnt get a flat tire when I drove it, therefore that other persons Ferrari is not "justified" as a better car?

[Masaaki]

Originally Posted by punkjesuit

Firewire consistently tests faster transfer rates that USB 2.0, and is therefore more stable. Thats like saying my Ford Focus didnt get a flat tire when I drove it, therefore that other persons Ferrari is not "justified" as a better car?

It's not about raw transfer rate that makes difference between FW and USB, but how the transfer protocol is secured without intermissions by other activities. FW is peer-to-peer communication, and USB is master-slave type of protocol, which can be intermittent if other activities are taking place.

Your experience is probably true if this is three years ago, but things have changed rapidly, mostly through the push by RME. M-Audio and few others had USB2.0 interface, but never really took off due to some drive issues, and common beliefs. Once RME had FF UFX, UC, and Babyface, everybody kind of followed, and now USB2.0 is getting very stable (still RME is the safest bet).

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

Originally Posted by punkjesuit

What do you mean there is no justification? Just because you didn't experience an issue personally doesn't mean that its a more stable method of data transfer??

Not at all. My personal experiences do not enter into it. I stated my case in the post: manufacturers are making new USB interfaces. They are mostly not making new firewire interfaces. They must know something about it, why build for an inferior/unstable/failure-prone protocol? Your personal opinion aside, these new USB interfaces seem to be working brilliantly. Where is the instability? Support your position by referencing interface failures caused by the fact that the device in question uses USB. (not just crappy drivers from a half-assed manufacturer.)

[SabreChris]

Originally Posted by Bill@WelcomeHome

Not at all. My personal experiences do not enter into it. I stated my case in the post: manufacturers are making new USB interfaces. They are mostly not making new firewire interfaces. They must know something about it, why build for an inferior/unstable/failure-prone protocol? Your personal opinion aside, these new USB interfaces seem to be working brilliantly. Where is the instability? Support your position by referencing interface failures caused by the fact that the device in question uses USB. (not just crappy drivers from a half-assed manufacturer.)

Firewire didn't work out that well. RME was one of a few who pioneered stable and low latency fw drivers, but many interfaces had/have problems with chipset compatibility, which invalidates the purpose of a "universal" interface being able to plug in to any computer without a host card. Through the firewire years, PCI interfaces were the backbone of stability. Now we are moving onto tb. Need to see how this plays out.

In the mean time, rme has proven the abillty to get great low latency with usb, most new interfaces support it, and all computers will ship with usb ports for the next 10 years.

[SabreChris]

Originally Posted by punkjesuit

Firewire consistently tests faster transfer rates that USB 2.0, and is therefore more stable.

No. RMEs usb interface is marginally faster than its fw now.