Had my heart set on a mac, but can get a much better spec PC for the price....

[narcoman]

ah the "genius" bar.


yes.


Not one of apple stores finest places!! hahah

I agree about the biz part. For me - running a company with many studios and facilities; Macs make sense - we are not an IT support desk!!

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by dubmunkey

Well when my pc died with years of tunes on i was able to fix it so is horses for courses :D

Of course. And that's a good thing. But if you subscribe to the "Mac way" it also wouldn't have been an issue - 14 machines here all time machined up.

As mentioned in an earlier post - there is also the whole integration thing. it's not important for many users; but we live and breathe on a daily basis with Mac Pro, Ipad, Imac, Iphone and timemachine integration. Networking and integration with Macs just works. No messing about. As powerful as the best well setup PC? No way. Doesn't have the headaches either!!

[Animalcloset]

Originally Posted by Leevi

May I ask that what kind of setup do you have?

Sure, here's my setup...

Intel 980x
GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD3R
Patriot Viper II Sector 7 Edition 24gb
GIGABYTE GV-R577SO-1GD Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5
Two SSD's (one for OSX and one for Windows) and about 6TB of 7200rpm drives.

You'll notice that these parts are all from the beginning of 2011, but this computer still kills for what I need it for (plugin intensive mixing) and I'll probably be happy with it for another 3 years. I use all of the Slate stuff and lots of sample instruments and have had very little issue with headroom.
The overclocking was easy to get a stable 4.2ghz out of the 980x and I haven't had one issue since I completed the build. Imagine what you could build for the same $$$$ today!?
However, none of this matters at all if you don't know how to setup and update a hackpro. Having somebody build it for you isn't an option because you'll most likely run into serious booting problems if you perform basic updates.

[thecb]

Originally Posted by dubmunkey

Also try pc specialist as you may get that spec cheaper. apples seem to be on average twice the price of equiv PC's.... It used to all be about Macs for audio but not anymore.

Pc + pt10 + saffire 56 = a few hundred more than the nearest mac. It was a no brainer...

Thanks, I'll have a look and see if they're cheaper and look into firewire/drivers too.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by narcoman

Of course. And that's a good thing. But if you subscribe to the "Mac way" it also wouldn't have been an issue - 14 machines here all time machined up.

As mentioned in an earlier post - there is also the whole integration thing. it's not important for many users; but we live and breathe on a daily basis with Mac Pro, Ipad, Imac, Iphone and timemachine integration. Networking and integration with Macs just works. No messing about. As powerful as the best well setup PC? No way. Doesn't have the headaches either!!

I have to say that some of my clients (I'm in the amusing position of being a web developer who uses a PC but whose clients mostly use Macs) definitely seem to have some headaches with their machines. (None of them are professional studios, however.)

And one of the issues that seems to get their goat is that of updates. Seems like they're extremely reluctant to do updates or upgrades because they're afraid of breaking working systems, possibly orphaning old, now unsupported hardware or software. And, obviously, from reading these forums, that definitely seems a realistic concern.


That said, it's clear that Microsoft's board of directors has laid down the law: be more Apple-like. More vertical integration. Less backward compatibility. More forced upgrades. And less support for older OS's and software: their box-maker customers also REALLY hate that 40% of the world still uses XP -- and so has little need for the fire-breathing rocketships required to get decent performance out of more 'modern' OS's. (And now their loser-browser, IE, won't even get security updates for IE8, the last version of that worthless POS browser to work on XP. It's a good thing Bill Gates isn't alive to see this crap. Oh, wait... But NO ONE should be using that lameware.)

[loopy]

I'm a PC person and have been building systems since the very first IBM PC (actually before but those weren't IBM) and I would suggest going to DUC and looking at the known to work builds. You can clone this and be pretty much assured it will work fine with PT.
Pro Tools 9 General Discussion - Avid Audio Forums

That being said, one thing I do notice about Mac vs PC is that programs that run on both platforms just seem to look better on the Macs. Maybe it's the Apple monitors, the design of the interface, I don't know but that has been my experience. Now how they run is a different story.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by loopy

I'm a PC person and have been building systems since the very first IBM PC (actually before but those weren't IBM) and I would suggest going to DUC and looking at the known to work builds. You can clone this and be pretty much assured it will work fine with PT.
Pro Tools 9 General Discussion - Avid Audio Forums

That being said, one thing I do notice about Mac vs PC is that programs that run on both platforms just seem to look better on the Macs. Maybe it's the Apple monitors, the design of the interface, I don't know but that has been my experience. Now how they run is a different story.

It might just be the increased gamma that the displays put out by default. They're bright.

That said, I have my version of XP dialed back to 'classic Windows' (ie, it looks like 90s style Windows) -- not because I think it looks cool -- (OK, I definitely think it looks cooler than the original Tonka Toy XP skin -- but just about anything would) but just because, well, I really don't care. The most I see of the XP skin is the menu bar and the task bar. And I like the fact that they are plain, utilitarian, and not distracting.

I want to concentrate on the applications I use. That's where the rubber hits the road. (To indulge in a tired cliche.)

[edwinhurwitz]

Originally Posted by theblue1

A blessing... and a curse.

But I've seen other folks who don't have the same business profile who have been hung out to dry by system failures. And when they went to the Genius Bar looking for help, they ended up walking away with new computers.
.

that would be me. I walked away with three new computers after visiting the Genius Bar and didn't pay a dime for them. They were all covered under AppleCare and all of them were significant upgrades that took me from a 2007 Intel to a 2011 i5 MacBook Pro without spending a dime other than to update Applecare with each new purchase. It has saved me thousands and my computer is relatively up to date.

YMMV. Mine certainly did. Nothing like this would have ever happened in the Windows world.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by edwinhurwitz

. Nothing like this would have ever happened in the Windows world.

... because it'd be various companies (some of them with alcohol) called "the genuis bar", "the genniuss bar", "teh genuines bra", "stinky mcfingers bar of erotic genius" and "we buy any car.com"

[samsam]

People make music on Windows, people make music on OS X, some machines cost more than others. C'est la vie.

OP - if you have your heart set on getting a Mac like you said, then get the Mac.

[MarkusColeman]

i5-3570k with a Thermaltake Frio cooler (unless you need heavy HyperThreading, the 3770k is not worth the difference in price)

ASUS P8Z77-V LK board

16GB, 2 x 8GB G.Skill Ares, 1600s RAM kit

2 x 1TB SATAIII 6/GBs Barracuda 7200rpm

Nvidia GTX 650, 2GB RAM, with two DVI outputs and a HDMI output (£115 as opposed to the £25 Nvidia 210 they build into their DAWs)

Antec Basiq 550W Power Supply

Cooler Master Silencio, Mid Tower

Sony NEC Optiarc Drive

incl. putting it together and shipping = roughly £750

Windows 7 Professional 64bit (vendor versions, as it is legal in the EU to install them on any PC) = £50

[loopy]

Originally Posted by theblue1

It might just be the increased gamma that the displays put out by default. They're bright.

That said, I have my version of XP dialed back to 'classic Windows' (ie, it looks like 90s style Windows) -- not because I think it looks cool -- (OK, I definitely think it looks cooler than the original Tonka Toy XP skin -- but just about anything would) but just because, well, I really don't care. The most I see of the XP skin is the menu bar and the task bar. And I like the fact that they are plain, utilitarian, and not distracting.

I want to concentrate on the applications I use. That's where the rubber hits the road. (To indulge in a tired cliche.)

That could be the reason. To me it seems like the fonts are crisper and clearer on the Macs. Things like the mixer and slots etc seem easier to read in general.

I have twin 23 inch HP LCD running at 1920x1080. One of these days I have to hook up my son's Mac and see if it looks better on the same monitor.
Just for curiosity sake.
BTW I prefer a basic, clean interface as well.

[Boschen]

Originally Posted by Psychlist1972

@theblue1

First time on the Internet?

Kidding aside, you basically just summed up the whole internet, and why sites like Yahoo answers, full of 12yos answering life-altering questions, just adds to the work people have to do to find a trustworthy answer.

Pete

The blue1 is a steamroller of text; just try and stop him.

[DAW PLUS]

Originally Posted by narcoman

... because it'd be various companies (some of them with alcohol) called "the genuis bar", "the genniuss bar", "teh genuines bra", "stinky mcfingers bar of erotic genius" and "we buy any car.com"

It depends who you buy from. Our customers dig our support no matter where on the globe they are.

Actually I don't see a difference between Mac and PC support on a professional level, since those customers typically buy from installation vendors.

If someone builds his own system and gets an issue... good luck with that.

[alexvdbroek]

Originally Posted by jcschild

umm complete and utter nonsense ASIO definately works on WIn7

Yes I have mine working now on Win7. But the original driver didn't work! ASIO4ALL didn't recognize all my inputs either.

Either way, I would still check that there is a Win7 driver for your interface.
A.

[DAW PLUS]

Originally Posted by alexvdbroek

Yes I have mine working now on Win7. But the original driver didn't work! ASIO4ALL didn't recognize all my inputs either.

Either way, I would still check that there is a Win7 driver for your interface.
A.

Whatever happened or didn't happen with the ASIO driver for you interface (which is...?), it has nothing to do with Windows 7. Claiming "ASIO does not work on W7" is a very misleading and terribly wrong choice of words.

[chevybusa]

OK, FOA I'll be the first to admit that I don't know JACK about computers, all I know is that when I had Windows back in the day I could NEVER get any program to install right (hell I couldn't even get a f@#$ing printer to work!!!!) it would constantly freeze up for seemingly no reason, not to mention that I couldn't even LOOK at the thing without getting a virus...

Fast forward to 2004 or so when I got my first Mac and I couldn't be happier, programs install and work perfectly, it doesn't freeze and crash, and no viruses at all...I got the Mac in my sig around 2008 or so and it works just as good now as the first day I got it, and runs the programs in my sig with tons of softies and plugs all at once with no problems....

I have no idea how much more it cost than a PC of the same specs, but for me whatever the amount is WELL worth it...again I'll be the first to say it could very well be my fault for not knowing anything about computers, but that being the case I'm just extremely happy to have a computer that works perfectly and exactly as it should and deosn't give me any hassles...

[perautomatik]

I would definitly go for the PC. Have had both Mac and PC for music production and I'm never turning to the Mac-side again (overpriced compared to performance).

[itsyourself]

Some people just prefer the Mac interface and usability. However, if you are comparing systems, or thinking of an iMac you have to compare your PC system with an i7 iMac, which will have far better horsepower than the i5 and something similar to the PC. Of course it is more money, but that's the premium you pay for the Mac experience, and is your choice. But yes, lovely screen on a 27" iMac, and very sleek setup.

[TreyM]

Originally Posted by itsyourself

Some people just prefer the Mac interface and usability. However, if you are comparing systems, or thinking of an iMac you have to compare your PC system with an i7 iMac, which will have far better horsepower than the i5 and something similar to the PC. Of course it is more money, but that's the premium you pay for the Mac experience, and is your choice. But yes, lovely screen on a 27" iMac, and very sleek setup.

No that is not the "premium you pay for the Mac experience." It is a BS price markup from Apple that is ridiculous. Like I have posted in my earlier posts, I have multiple hackintoshes, none of them on ugly machines. The "Mac experience" need not be so expensive.

[TreyM]

Originally Posted by Animalcloset

Sure, here's my setup...

Intel 980x
GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD3R
Patriot Viper II Sector 7 Edition 24gb
GIGABYTE GV-R577SO-1GD Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5
Two SSD's (one for OSX and one for Windows) and about 6TB of 7200rpm drives.

You'll notice that these parts are all from the beginning of 2011, but this computer still kills for what I need it for (plugin intensive mixing) and I'll probably be happy with it for another 3 years. I use all of the Slate stuff and lots of sample instruments and have had very little issue with headroom.
The overclocking was easy to get a stable 4.2ghz out of the 980x and I haven't had one issue since I completed the build. Imagine what you could build for the same $$$$ today!?
However, none of this matters at all if you don't know how to setup and update a hackpro. Having somebody build it for you isn't an option because you'll most likely run into serious booting problems if you perform basic updates.

For recording on a Hackintosh I recommend using Snow Leo anyway. 10.6.8 is the last update made for it, so there is no real danger of screwing things up. Once Apple abandon's Lion for ML, I will upgrade there. My reasoning? I will wait until the final version of Lion is well under control by the community before bothering to wrangle with getting my setup running perfect on 10.7.x. Time is money.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by Boschen

The blue1 is a steamroller of text; just try and stop him.

This twig was bent when I got an electric typewriter for my 14th birthday and I taught myself to touch type soon after.

The plan at the time was to write a bunch of spy fiction, make a bunch of money, pour a bunch of money into completely redoing my cobbled together component stereo system -- hopefully hiding it behind motorized tambour doors -- and then buy an MGB-GT. But then I discovered girls. Became a hippie. Learned to play guitar. Had a bunch of adventures that seemed at the time to make spy fiction pretty pale and mundane by comparison...

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by perautomatik

I would definitly go for the PC. Have had both Mac and PC for music production and I'm never turning to the Mac-side again (overpriced compared to performance).

that isnt the point though - since any machine from £500 up wards can cope. It's about the support, reliability, cross platform-ness, simplicity, doing tech support oneself, ergonomics and targetted software support (as well as a few other things not mentioned).

Once you start to play like to for like - there really isnt much in it WRT price.

[Mortal Engines]

I was a die hard Mac User for a very long time up until my Mac was stolen. I suffered with WIN XP for a couple of years, and since Windows 7, I've never looked back. You'll do fine with a Windows 7 machine. I won't dis a Mac but, these days it's like buying a BMW when a Toyota Camry will do just fine. Hardware compatibility issues are almost a thing of the past since Windows 7's arrival.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by loopy

That could be the reason. To me it seems like the fonts are crisper and clearer on the Macs. Things like the mixer and slots etc seem easier to read in general.

I have twin 23 inch HP LCD running at 1920x1080. One of these days I have to hook up my son's Mac and see if it looks better on the same monitor.
Just for curiosity sake.
BTW I prefer a basic, clean interface as well.

Their font system is different, too. (Of course, you have the option of a couple font systems in Windows, you can turn TrueType on and off, etc. But it's still different.) The early versions of Windows Safari apparently used the Mac approach to fonts -- but it looked heavy and blobby in the different Windows display system and they later changed it (or offered users the option). On the Mac (with its higher gamma and perhaps other differences?), Safari looked/looks fine.


The interesting thing to me is that, just as with the loudness wars, some of the 'winning' visual elements that influence folks' decisions in the computer show room are not always necessarily elements that will provide the most ergonomic user experience.

In the display room, folks seem to LOVE bright, white displays with bold, black letters. Just like they apparently love glossy monitor surfaces. Yet glossy monitors are a total pain to use except in total darkness. And super high contrast displays may delight the eye immediately -- but a bright white background can become fatiguing because of the sheer amount of light entering the eye.

(I have two matte screens but have an old salvage laptop with a glossy screen. Also my Nexus 7 has a glossy touch screen. They are TOTALLY annoying to use because of glare and reflection. [Not to mention smearing on the touch screen.] The nexus does 1280 HD and looks great even with the smallish screen -- but if I want to watch a movie on it, I have to clean it with distilled water and then watch the movie in the dark. As a consequence, I pretty much don't. It does make a pretty good DAW remote using TouchDAW, however.)

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by narcoman

that isnt the point though - since any machine from £500 up wards can cope. It's about the support, reliability, cross platform-ness, simplicity, doing tech support oneself, ergonomics and targetted software support (as well as a few other things not mentioned).

Once you start to play like to for like - there really isnt much in it WRT price.

Horses for courses.

A commercial facility with multiple rooms and a number of machines such as yours has a different set of requirements and priorities. You can throw a certain amount of money at given problems because, in the scheme of things, it's a relatively small amount.

But for project and personal studios with a machine or two, those priorities may be very different.

Having watched my 3DW friends (and folks online) get hung out to dry by compatibility version-chase issues on their Macs (for instance, say you can't get a security update unless you update your OS to one of the most recent versions -- but if you do that, you may orphan your hardware, or perhaps your DAW, meaning you have to upgrade one or more of those) or simply going into the Apple Store with an iMac that won't eject a disk and walking out several thousands poorer with a new iMac. [That's what happened the first time I sent one Mac-using pal to the Genius Bar for advice. I should have gone with him. But then the old iMac was really a doggy and the new one was much nicer. Meanwhile, I've been using the same refurbed ~$500 box for the last 6 years or so and have no plans on changing; does everything I want. I just have to hope that the Microsoft Board of Directors doesn't get their way and proceed with the Appleification of MS and that Win 8 isn't the big POS that early reports seem to suggest. Oh wait... that should be... ]

[TreyM]

Originally Posted by theblue1

Their font system is different, too. (Of course, you have the option of a couple font systems in Windows, you can turn TrueType on and off, etc. But it's still different.) The early versions of Windows Safari apparently used the Mac approach to fonts -- but it looked heavy and blobby in the different Windows display system and they later changed it (or offered users the option). On the Mac (with its higher gamma and perhaps other differences?), Safari looked/looks fine.


The interesting thing to me is that, just as with the loudness wars, some of the 'winning' visual elements that influence folks' decisions in the computer show room are not always necessarily elements that will provide the most ergonomic user experience.

In the display room, folks seem to LOVE bright, white displays with bold, black letters. Just like they apparently love glossy monitor surfaces. Yet glossy monitors are a total pain to use except in total darkness. And super high contrast displays may delight the eye immediately -- but a bright white background can become fatiguing because of the sheer amount of light entering the eye.

(I have two matte screens but have an old salvage laptop with a glossy screen. Also my Nexus 7 has a glossy touch screen. They are TOTALLY annoying to use because of glare and reflection. [Not to mention smearing on the touch screen.] The nexus does 1280 HD and looks great even with the smallish screen -- but if I want to watch a movie on it, I have to clean it with distilled water and then watch the movie in the dark. As a consequence, I pretty much don't. It does make a pretty good DAW remote using TouchDAW, however.)

Actually, imo a gloss screen performs much better in direct sunlight than a matte screen. I have an old Dell D630 laptop with a matte screen and another laptop with a gloss screen. The matte screen, apparently scattering the light across a greater area is almost impossible to make anything out on.

[DAW PLUS]

Originally Posted by narcoman

that isnt the point though - since any machine from £500 up wards can cope. It's about the support, reliability, cross platform-ness, simplicity, doing tech support oneself, ergonomics and targetted software support (as well as a few other things not mentioned).

Once you start to play like to for like - there really isnt much in it WRT price.

One of the first posts I have to disagree with you, narco.
Your reasons are not about Mac vs PC, but vendor vs vendor.

The only trouble with good Windows based DAW's for professional customers is that not everybody knows where to get them, and there are a lot of bad vendors out there (also for Mac - experienced that myself years ago).

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by DAW PLUS

One of the first posts I have to disagree with you, narco.
Your reasons are not about Mac vs PC, but vendor vs vendor.

The only trouble with good Windows based DAW's for professional customers is that not everybody knows where to get them, and there are a lot of bad vendors out there (also for Mac - experienced that myself years ago).

I'd say we agree!!!

[string6theory]

I've used various Dells and Apples since their inception. These days many of the previous "lines" between them are gone. And great music is made on either. But, 3 things (lines) still remain, for me.

1) Higher performance/spec PC's will always be available at lower cost vs. Mac.
2) PC's will always require a higher level of tweaking and (at a minimum) system updates, so additional tech tasking.
3) Macs approach flows, in general, better in a creative mindset, facilitating that opportunity cost trade off between the right brain creative/spontaneity and additional left brain/ technical tasking. They're just setup to get on with music making right out of the gate. And, this is so hugely important, especially for less tech inclined or non-tweaker types.