Cat 5 audio trasmission form live room to cr.

[ray_subsonic]

Marek,

I'm currently researching this for a venue running Allen&Heath iLive Consoles.

The marketing material for the Focusrite interfaces looks very sexy, but is a bit short on real information so far. In principle, it looks good, but Harman (in their infinite wisdom) have broken the functions of (what looks to be) a Dante system up into a whole range of boxes, lot like AVID did with HD. Why doesn't this surprise me?

The uptake on Dante is looking solid. It's been well proven (mainly in Live Sound applications), although more information is needed about some of the newer products coming to the market using the Protocol. MADI is already well proven in critical applications and over much greater distances, running significantly longer distances (2-2.7km) over Coax or Optical without the need for any kind of switching.

If I was making Provisions for "Future-Proofing", I'd be researching the various companies that are manufacturing for the Audio Over Ethernet (AOE) Standard : Audio over Ethernet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Also MADI, Ethernet and Digital Standards.

More importantly than gear though, I'd be thinking about Wiring. Can you run new Ethernet cables or are you dealing with a fixed Cat5 connection to the TV Studio??

I'm still coming to grips with working scenarios using Dante. Reported Latency is minimal. Not sure yet if it runs over 100mtrs on Cat5/Cat5e (??). Audinate claim that Dante uses standard IP Network Protocol and is largely unaffected by Router/Switchers (so I'd assume able to run distances longer than 100 mtrs). You'd need to research this.

I'm already looking at many of the Dante breakout boxes by other manufacturers, the Allen&Heath card, and the Focusrite cards for the venue I mentioned above. Even if you brought into the Focusrite Dante system (interfaces), I'd also consider looking at some of the RME MADI boxes/devices, as interfaces between your HD Native and Lynx converters. If I find more info, I'll post back in this thread. I'll be interested to see how this pans out for you.

Cheers RAy

PS : I MUST try the Bettermaker some day

[Clueless]

Originally Posted by Marogru

HI.
Right now I'm building a studio and I will have analog connection to my live room.
But, I have a TV studio somewhere further that I would also like to connect to.

This s a new topic for me so I might mix something up, please correct me if I will write something stupid.

The only way to connect with the tv studio is through cat 5 Ethernet cables.
Let's assume the connection distance is over 100m long but less then 200m.

Cat5 is limited to a transmission distance of 100m (Category 5 cable - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Anybody who installs a longer run of Cat5 is not running Cat5, but some strange 4-pair copper wire.

If you have the ability to pull a wire, then you almost certainly want to pull MADI, which can be run over RG6 or optical fiber. If you really have what you say you have, which is a four-pair wire running over 100m using Cat5 media, the best thing you can do is to test it and report back. Officially, it should not be good for anything.

[Marogru]

Thanks guys for fast answers.

Right now there is no possibility to run any cables, I have to connect to their server.

I know that I will have to go through 2 servers and the building is in 6A category.

[Funny Cat]

Look up Ethersound Snakes, particularly the ES8 series. They are very expensive though. They make 8 channel audio transmitters and receivers. We use them at my day job. Might be up your alley.

[waveterm]

Running through two servers doesn´t sound too good to me.

I would expect lots of dropouts.

You really want a point to point connection. I would go MADI over fiber.

WT

[Marogru]

Guys, I do not have an option cat 6A or nothing.

[waveterm]

Ok, direct point to point is a must.

Also, you might need to insert a switch due to the length. Dante is the way to go then.

WT

[jetam]

Probably the best solution would be Merging's Horus.

If it's too expensive, check the Dante protocol. Interfaces are relatively cheap and AFAIK you can use the computer's network adapter as the soundcard.

[jtienhaara]

Originally Posted by Marogru

Thanks guys for fast answers.

Right now there is no possibility to run any cables, I have to connect to their server.

I know that I will have to go through 2 servers and the building is in 6A category.

What kind of servers? Are you sure they're OK with high bandwidth audio data clogging up their arteries?

I know this is the High End, but just for the record there are a number of options for running Linux JACK over intra- and inter-nets. It's FAIF [Free As In Free] and will run with any audio hardware that has Linux drivers, but of course it requires 2 Linux endpoints. In my personal studio I use AV Linux and a 24 channel Sydec analog <-> MADI converter. Though I haven't personally used JACK-over-network, so I can't report on how solid it is, I can say that JACK itself is very solid. Configuration and maintenance costs might be prohibitive though if you aren't a / don't have access to a Linux nerd.

Anyway good luck!

Johann

[ray_subsonic]

Originally Posted by waveterm

Ok, direct point to point is a must. Also, you might need to insert a switch due to the length. Dante is the way to go then.

This sounds like the way.

Cat6e .. Still the same distance limitations as Cat5, so you'd need to go through a switch.

[Funny Cat]

If you are using Switches, do yourself a favor and check out the Ethersound Products. We use them here and they work wonderful. They are made for this kind of stuff and are used frequently in Live events with long runs as well.

[Marogru]

Originally Posted by jtienhaara

What kind of servers? Are you sure they're OK with high bandwidth audio data clogging up their arteries?

I know this is the High End, but just for the record there are a number of options for running Linux JACK over intra- and inter-nets. It's FAIF [Free As In Free] and will run with any audio hardware that has Linux drivers, but of course it requires 2 Linux endpoints. In my personal studio I use AV Linux and a 24 channel Sydec analog <-> MADI converter. Though I haven't personally used JACK-over-network, so I can't report on how solid it is, I can say that JACK itself is very solid. Configuration and maintenance costs might be prohibitive though if you aren't a / don't have access to a Linux nerd.

Anyway good luck!

Johann

The servers easily managed a 4k picture transfer, so not worries about a little sound transfer, how big it would be.

[jtienhaara]

About 84 Mbps, or roughly 1/10 the theoretical bandwidth of a gigabit network interface:

(32 + 8) channels x 24 bits x 88,200 samples per second = 84,672,000

The reason I asked about the servers is because a public webserver will have very different quality of service needs from a private intranet server from a private file server from an application server etc. And depending on the IT gestapo running the servers, it might not even matter that they sit idle with no traffic 99.999% of the time -- some IT groups will pretty much prevent anyone from using their precious servers, even the intended users. Uh oh I'm starting to rant...

Good luck Marogru!

[Marogru]

Originally Posted by jtienhaara

About 84 Mbps, or roughly 1/10 the theoretical bandwidth of a gigabit network interface:

(32 + 8) channels x 24 bits x 88,200 samples per second = 84,672,000

The reason I asked about the servers is because a public webserver will have very different quality of service needs from a private intranet server from a private file server from an application server etc. And depending on the IT gestapo running the servers, it might not even matter that they sit idle with no traffic 99.999% of the time -- some IT groups will pretty much prevent anyone from using their precious servers, even the intended users. Uh oh I'm starting to rant...

Good luck Marogru!

Thanks for good advice. This building is one of the newest (and Biggest) TV/Film studios in Poland. I think they know how to manage such transmissions.
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[hipporu]

I did not use it, but maybe you would be interested.
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