retina MBP - Serious issues.

[Jeff D.]

I don't run DP or Logic, but Pro Tools 10.2 is running on my 2.6ghz rMBP easily 5X faster than on my old 2007 MacBook Pro. I can run low buffer settings as long as I set the CPU cores to something less than 8 virtual cores. I have it set to 6 cores right now which allows me to get e-mail and surf the web while mixes are bouncing down.

I'm using Avid's virtual instruments only (Strike, Xpand2, MiniPiano) right now as I haven't brought the rest over from my old rig yet. But so far I have been super impressed.

[dr_Jezz]

Originally Posted by MilesSmiles

Hey everyone,

I've looked through this site and have found some threads related to my question, but no definitive answers. (this goes for elsewhere on the web).

I recently acquired a retina-display macbook pro. It's running 10.7.4 and has a 2.6ghz i7 processor, 8gb, and a 500gb SSD.

I upgraded from a macbook pro 2008 with snow leopard and 4gb of ram.

On the snow leopard machine, I have mixed sessions in DP 7 with upwards of 50 tracks and TONS of plugins. (at least 2-4 per track) all running smoothly at a buffer setting of 64.

I could also run a session with a dozen or so audio tracks and up to 4 or 5 virtual instruments, and I would still have no problems, no artifacts, no CPU spikes...

[bear with me here]

Fast forward to today, my old MBP is making an AWFUL grinding noises and thus can't be used for mixing. So I get a retina-display MBP thinking it has to be blazing fast.

Unfortunately, I was dead wrong. Working with one audio track and NO plugins or aux busses in DP 7 or Logic 9.1.7, my CPU meters are hovering around 50%. This is crazy in and of itself, but I can live with it.

The thing that really bothers me, however, is that opening ONE virtual instrument (in DP or Logic) brings my whole system to a halt. Not a crash, but enough artifacts and CPU spiking and error messages to make working impossible. This is incredibly bad news for me as I got a gig doing short music spots and I live in an apartment where I can't actually record anything due to noise constraints, so i must use virtual instruments. One might say "turn down your buffer settings" but it actually changes nothing. And of course, it gets to a point where the buffer is too high and the instruments are unplayable due to the latency.

I'm sorry this post is so long, but I'm really lost...I have never had these issues on my old powerbook g4, then I never had these issues on my old macbook pro (still don't, and would use it if not for the horrible grinding sound).

I've read threads around the internet about issues with multi-core thread processing in logic, and it seems a lot of people are having this problem with logic, but I've noticed it's system wide. The same issues occur in DP 7.24.

Does anyone have any insight into what I'm doing wrong? I'd be happy to answer any questions about my setup if it helps. I guess I just can't believe I'm sitting here considering selling this brand new machine so i can buy a several-year old one that I know I won't have problems with. I have NEVER had performance issues like this since I got my first audio rig in 2002. It's almost as if apple has taken a step backward.

(On a lighter note, batman arkham asylum runs awesome on this machine. Too bad I can't make a living playing that. )

Replacing the HDD in your MBP may be an option - can't think what else a grinding sound could be (CD drive unlikely if it's permanent, fan unlikely).

[MilesSmiles]

Originally Posted by Jeff D.

I don't run DP or Logic, but Pro Tools 10.2 is running on my 2.6ghz rMBP easily 5X faster than on my old 2007 MacBook Pro. I can run low buffer settings as long as I set the CPU cores to something less than 8 virtual cores. I have it set to 6 cores right now which allows me to get e-mail and surf the web while mixes are bouncing down.

I'm using Avid's virtual instruments only (Strike, Xpand2, MiniPiano) right now as I haven't brought the rest over from my old rig yet. But so far I have been super impressed.

That's good to know. I might have to switch over. When I got into recording (2002), the only truly stable PT platform was HD, and that was totally out of the question for a student like myself at the time. I remember trying LE and hating it, however things in PT land are probably considerably different now. Not to mention at Berklee, they were all about DP and not big on pro-tools.

So yeah..maybe it's time to make the switch. If only I was still eligible for a student discount

[MilesSmiles]

Originally Posted by dr_Jezz

Replacing the HDD in your MBP may be an option - can't think what else a grinding sound could be (CD drive unlikely if it's permanent, fan unlikely).

It's a problem I had once before, it was under applecare then, and they replaced 2 fans and the logic board. The HDD was fine.

Now it's not under applecare but the same exact noise started again. It seems hardly worth it to replace the logic board when I could probably buy a similar model for the same price.

[Myrok Rolles]

Hi Miles... How hot is your macbook running during the sessions? Does this same problem occur if you shut down your MBP and let it cool down, then start up logic as soon as your computer powers on so it is still cool... same problem occurs?

On my 2011 MBP 17" I have to pay close attention to the temparature of the machine. If it gets too hot then I get the same problem... Can't run any instruments, CPU goes to 80% + for no reason...

Usually I just save the session and shut down for about 30 minutes to let the computer cool down, then it's usually good to run for another few hours before getting too hot.

Did you buy your retina directly from apple, or from craigslist / ebay?

If you bought from apple, take it to the apple store, show them the problem, and they'll give you a new one for free.

If you bought it from craigslist / ebay you might be SOL

Try this troubleshooting:

Shut down computer and let it cool off.

Start up computer.

Open up activity monitor (Applications --> Utilies --> Activity Monitor)

Look at CPU & memory usage... is everything stable... with no other apps running you should be at less than 5% on all cores.

Open Logic

Check activity monitor. Everything still stable?

Create an instrument track and load an instrument.

Check activiy monitor again.

Play instrument.

You need to find out at what point is the computer hitting the wall? Is it only once you have a plugin activated? does the problem occur with simple audio tracks?

[Joe Porto]

Of DP allows you to choose how many processors to allocate, try reducing the number.

[MilesSmiles]

Originally Posted by Myrok Rolles

Hi Miles... How hot is your macbook running during the sessions? Does this same problem occur if you shut down your MBP and let it cool down, then start up logic as soon as your computer powers on so it is still cool... same problem occurs?

On my 2011 MBP 17" I have to pay close attention to the temparature of the machine. If it gets too hot then I get the same problem... Can't run any instruments, CPU goes to 80% + for no reason...

Usually I just save the session and shut down for about 30 minutes to let the computer cool down, then it's usually good to run for another few hours before getting too hot.

Did you buy your retina directly from apple, or from craigslist / ebay?

If you bought from apple, take it to the apple store, show them the problem, and they'll give you a new one for free.

If you bought it from craigslist / ebay you might be SOL

Try this troubleshooting:

Shut down computer and let it cool off.

Start up computer.

Open up activity monitor (Applications --> Utilies --> Activity Monitor)

Look at CPU & memory usage... is everything stable... with no other apps running you should be at less than 5% on all cores.

Open Logic

Check activity monitor. Everything still stable?

Create an instrument track and load an instrument.

Check activiy monitor again.

Play instrument.

You need to find out at what point is the computer hitting the wall? Is it only once you have a plugin activated? does the problem occur with simple audio tracks?

First off, I ***REALLY*** appreciate your help with this.

I bought this directly from apple over the phone.

My computer has never felt remotely hot (it's basically cold to the touch) and makes almost no noise. This is totally unlike my old MBP which got very hot and loud (but ran fine). Of course, i could install a temperature monitor app if you think it's something to look into.

I will say that shutting down/restarting etc has NO effect on anything in my DAWs.

The activity monitor is interesting because it never shows that more than 10% of CPU is being used, while logic's CPU meter is literally STAYING in the red while I play a VI. (not to mention the nasty artifacts.

Should I change my processing threads from 8 to anything else?

I have heard something about problems with multi-core in lion and mountain lion and logic...but I really don't know a lot about that. I consider myself an expert musician, but I am by no means an expert with OS X, particularly lion.

I am intrigued by your mentioning apple might replace the computer...I have never heard of this, but i guess it may be worth the trip to an apple store. I just hate going that route...i like solving problems through learning about the situation...maybe I'm being too naive about the nature of this technology.

[MilesSmiles]

Originally Posted by Joe Porto

Of DP allows you to choose how many processors to allocate, try reducing the number.

I'm probably not fully understanding this concept, but wouldn't that further reduce the processing power of my computer?

of course I will try either way...but can anyone shed some light on this?

[MilesSmiles]

Another thing I wanted to know is whether anyone can confirm that performance is better with mountain lion vs lion? Considering how poorly it's performing, I'm willing to try anything including an upgrade...but then I realize that I'm totally new to Lion, and it seems horrible for audio, so how much better can mountain lion be?

Definitive answers for this are very hard to find...if anyone has direct experience, I would definitely love to hear about it.

Damn I miss snow-leopard. I literally had not one single issue, crash or anything for 4 years or so.

[Jeff D.]

Originally Posted by MilesSmiles

Another thing I wanted to know is whether anyone can confirm that performance is better with mountain lion vs lion?

My ProTools experience above is with Lion, a nearly identical Mac setup to yours.

But I did have to reduce the processors from "8" to avoid spikes that would pop up an error even though the average CPU usage was low.

[Myrok Rolles]

Originally Posted by MilesSmiles

First off, I ***REALLY*** appreciate your help with this.

I bought this directly from apple over the phone.

My computer has never felt remotely hot (it's basically cold to the touch) and makes almost no noise. This is totally unlike my old MBP which got very hot and loud (but ran fine). Of course, i could install a temperature monitor app if you think it's something to look into.

I will say that shutting down/restarting etc has NO effect on anything in my DAWs.

The activity monitor is interesting because it never shows that more than 10% of CPU is being used, while logic's CPU meter is literally STAYING in the red while I play a VI. (not to mention the nasty artifacts.

Should I change my processing threads from 8 to anything else?

I have heard something about problems with multi-core in lion and mountain lion and logic...but I really don't know a lot about that. I consider myself an expert musician, but I am by no means an expert with OS X, particularly lion.

I am intrigued by your mentioning apple might replace the computer...I have never heard of this, but i guess it may be worth the trip to an apple store. I just hate going that route...i like solving problems through learning about the situation...maybe I'm being too naive about the nature of this technology.

Interesting...

If Logic is saying your CPU is almost at full capacity, but Activity Monitor shows otherwise, it looks like the problem is going to be with Logic.

Do you have any other Daws (even garageband?) or programs that require heavy cpu usage? Maybe Final Cut, or the Adobe Suite?

Do you experience CPU lockup with any other programs besides Logic?

What kind of audio interface are you using? Just the built in? (should be fine either way, just trying to nail the problem down.)

Have you done a total uninstall / reinstall of Logic?

If something similar happens with garageband I would take it straight to the apple store to have the computer replaced. Show them what is wrong, and then have them demonstrate that the problem does not occur with the RMBP's in the store.

If you're not having any problems outside of Logic, then you should start focusing on what you can do to try and fix the problem within logic.

Are you fully updated? Logic 9.1.7? If not, update.

Are you running 32 bit, or 64 bit?

I'm not on mountain lion so I can't speak specifically to the compatibility but a google search turned up some topics you might want to look at... It looks like Mountain Lion and Logic have some pretty serious problems that need to be worked out....

https://discussions.apple.com/thread...art=0&tstart=0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI4n2bIBII0

After doing more research I'm thinking the problem is pretty much gauranteed between Logic and Mountain Lion. It's going to be pretty tough to get a quick fix. I wish I could help more, it seems you aren't the only one experiencing problems.

How long have you had your computer? I would say email apple support and tell them that you work professionally and rely on Logic to support yourself / and your family and that your new $3000 laptop can't even handle a single instrument. Demand a return if your are inclined to do so, and they should agree.

Sorry bud.

[MilesSmiles]

Originally Posted by Myrok Rolles

Interesting...

If Logic is saying your CPU is almost at full capacity, but Activity Monitor shows otherwise, it looks like the problem is going to be with Logic.

Do you have any other Daws (even garageband?) or programs that require heavy cpu usage? Maybe Final Cut, or the Adobe Suite?

Do you experience CPU lockup with any other programs besides Logic?

What kind of audio interface are you using? Just the built in? (should be fine either way, just trying to nail the problem down.)

Have you done a total uninstall / reinstall of Logic?

If something similar happens with garageband I would take it straight to the apple store to have the computer replaced. Show them what is wrong, and then have them demonstrate that the problem does not occur with the RMBP's in the store.

If you're not having any problems outside of Logic, then you should start focusing on what you can do to try and fix the problem within logic.

Are you fully updated? Logic 9.1.7? If not, update.

Are you running 32 bit, or 64 bit?

I'm not on mountain lion so I can't speak specifically to the compatibility but a google search turned up some topics you might want to look at... It looks like Mountain Lion and Logic have some pretty serious problems that need to be worked out....

https://discussions.apple.com/thread...art=0&tstart=0

Logic 9.1.7 GUI slow lag under Mountain Lion or Lion - YouTube

After doing more research I'm thinking the problem is pretty much gauranteed between Logic and Mountain Lion. It's going to be pretty tough to get a quick fix. I wish I could help more, it seems you aren't the only one experiencing problems.

How long have you had your computer? I would say email apple support and tell them that you work professionally and rely on Logic to support yourself / and your family and that your new $3000 laptop can't even handle a single instrument. Demand a return if your are inclined to do so, and they should agree.

Sorry bud.

The exact same problem occurs in DP 7.24.

However, I bought dirt 2 from the app store and it runs amazingly well on the highest graphics settings. it simply looks stunning compared to it's xbox counterpart. How could a computer run a game so smoothly but barely function for audio? seems like some kind of bug in core audio or something.

I have to go out now but I'm going to mess with the processor thread settings when I get back later and we can see if that makes a difference. Jeff D's post caught my eye regarding processor cores.

The problem occurs when running in 32 bit and 64 bit modes. DP 7.24 only runs in 32 bit at this time.

I also have an NFR of studio one, and it too has the same problem. I don't really use it, but I figured I'd install it anyway to see if it's in the same boat, and it is. (studio one 1.6.5)

Again, thanks for all the help people.

[Myrok Rolles]

Originally Posted by MilesSmiles

The exact same problem occurs in DP 7.24.

However, I bought dirt 2 from the app store and it runs amazingly well on the highest graphics settings. it simply looks stunning compared to it's xbox counterpart. How could a computer run a game so smoothly but barely function for audio? seems like some kind of bug in core audio or something.

I have to go out now but I'm going to mess with the processor thread settings when I get back later and we can see if that makes a difference. Jeff D's post caught my eye regarding processor cores.

The problem occurs when running in 32 bit and 64 bit modes. DP 7.24 only runs in 32 bit at this time.

I also have an NFR of studio one, and it too has the same problem. I don't really use it, but I figured I'd install it anyway to see if it's in the same boat, and it is. (studio one 1.6.5)

Again, thanks for all the help people.

Yup, some sort of audio support issue. If you have a friend with an audio interface nearby try a different interface to see if that fixes it.. good luck keep us updated with however you fix it..

[engelen62]

Sounds like a non compatible audio interface...

[vexidz]

Only grinding sounds from MBPr can be HDD. Replace that and report. Otherwise I think Apple jumped 2fast with retina. There is tons of issues all over the web.

[Breaks Dude]

Originally Posted by vexidz

Only grinding sounds from MBPr can be HDD. Replace that and report. Otherwise I think Apple jumped 2fast with retina. There is tons of issues all over the web.

Agreed.

Aside from the fans there are ZERO moving parts in a rMBP, so it ain't the drive.

I have a week old 15" cMBP (no retina I like to add things like a big 2nd HDD and huge RAM - for audio these things are a necessity IMO) and I have no such issues with core audio or either of my two soundcards.

Take it to the Apple store or have Apple replace it. Go over to MacRumors and ask over there.

I am seeing lots of threads regarding problems with the rMBP. Lots of screen issues...they are also slower machines according to the tests I've seen, mainly because they have to process 4x the pixels as the regular MBP. I can see how for graphic design or photo editing one of these retina machines would be a good investment, but for audio it doesn't seem to be the right machine. Maybe after a few revisions but not right now - way too many limitations.

Just my .02 and, yes, I could afford either one.

[danger]

Originally Posted by vexidz

Only grinding sounds from MBPr can be HDD. Replace that and report. Otherwise I think Apple jumped 2fast with retina. There is tons of issues all over the web.

All MBPrs have ssd, forget hdd.

[projektk]

build a Hackintosh and never worry again. just a suggestion. need to move it you can build a mini itx hack with a core i7 3770 no problem. tonymacx86.com

Sent from my LG-P925 using Tapatalk

[MilesSmiles]

Originally Posted by vexidz

Only grinding sounds from MBPr can be HDD. Replace that and report. Otherwise I think Apple jumped 2fast with retina. There is tons of issues all over the web.

Read my OP again. MY OLD MBP is making grinding noises. THAT IS WHY I got the retina display one.

The retina display mbp has no moving parts, how could it make any noise??

[MilesSmiles]

Originally Posted by engelen62

Sounds like a non compatible audio interface...

The problem persists why my motu 828mkii, as well as with built-in audio. Changing between the two shows no change.

[MilesSmiles]

Originally Posted by projektk

build a Hackintosh and never worry again. just a suggestion. need to move it you can build a mini itx hack with a core i7 3770 no problem. tonymacx86.com

Sent from my LG-P925 using Tapatalk

I'd love to, but to be honest, I'm just not good enough with computers to start a machine from scratch like that. It would be far too time consuming and frustrating to be worth it.

If I can't fix this problem, I'll just sell this machine for near what I paid for it and buy a slightly older one with snow leopard. Maybe a mac pro from last year. It's not like I ever have to bring the thing anywhere anyway.

[valis]

Honestly it sounds to me like you have some issue with aggressive throttling of the cpu. Are you using the laptop while plugged in and with power features set properly? (HD's don't spin down etc)

[MilesSmiles]

Originally Posted by valis

Honestly it sounds to me like you have some issue with aggressive throttling of the cpu. Are you using the laptop while plugged in and with power features set properly? (HD's don't spin down etc)

I have the hard drive spindown option unchecked, but my HDD doesn't spin so that's probably irrelevant. I also have the option to reduce graphics performance unchecked...

I'm wondering if re-installing lion would help.

I did that yesterday only to find that all of my stuff was still there. (apparently the lion installer basically just does nothing now, and you have go out and buy one of those USB superdrives, burn your own lion installer, and install it that way. Because I should totally have to drop another $100 to do something that I would be able to do on any other computer for free.)

[valis]

Apple's current installers will simply overwrite the existing OS files and handle converting any older OS related files to current standards (like migrating receipts/boms to the current system of tracking installed packages). It doesn't reformat & repartition etc...

I get that the current systems use an SSD, but not being able to play a single VI off of the built in audio means there's something afoot imo. Watching the activity monitor at low cpu loads however may not tell the story due to the cpu throttling occuring anyway at low cpu loads, which is what I meant to say above.

[Myrok Rolles]

Originally Posted by MilesSmiles

I have the hard drive spindown option unchecked, but my HDD doesn't spin so that's probably irrelevant. I also have the option to reduce graphics performance unchecked...

I'm wondering if re-installing lion would help.

I did that yesterday only to find that all of my stuff was still there. (apparently the lion installer basically just does nothing now, and you have go out and buy one of those USB superdrives, burn your own lion installer, and install it that way. Because I should totally have to drop another $100 to do something that I would be able to do on any other computer for free.)

The more I think about it the more and more I'm sure it's an audio interface issue.

What interface are you using? Can you try a different one to troubleshoot?

[MilesSmiles]

Originally Posted by Myrok Rolles

The more I think about it the more and more I'm sure it's an audio interface issue.

What interface are you using? Can you try a different one to troubleshoot?

I don't have access to any other interfaces. Just my 828 and built-in audio. The problem is equal to both.

I just did a full clean reinstall of Lion, going to bed now but tomorrow I'll be able to see if anything improves. Thanks for the help, people!

[Dysanfel]

Originally Posted by vexidz

Only grinding sounds from MBPr can be HDD.

How does a SSD drive on a rMBP "grind"? There are no moving parts. Sounds to me more like a fan issue.

[Drumslut]

I have no real solution to the problem with your new computer, but skimming through this forum makes me think that at least Logic has a problem with Mountain Lion. Pro Tools users seems to be fine.

Anyway, if I were you, and needed to work NOW, I would try to fix the old Snow Leopard computer, by replacing either the hard drive, the fans, or both, until the problem with the new system was solved.


There are really good instructions on this site: iFixit: The free repair manual

And cloning you system to the new drive is a breeze with Time Machine.

[Joe Porto]

Originally Posted by MilesSmiles

I'm probably not fully understanding this concept, but wouldn't that further reduce the processing power of my computer?

of course I will try either way...but can anyone shed some light on this?

Doing this will reserve a processor for OS related tasks.