Logic Volume Automation and the Effects chain

[8875]

Normal volume automation will be post-effects yes, so I think the only sensible way would be to have the outputs set to buses. It's a shame the faderport won't work with the gain plugin - are you sure there's no way round it? I haven't used control surfaces so I don't know but perhaps there's something you can do in the environment?... Anyway, if you can't do that, the best thing might be to set yourself up a template with all the buses so at least you don't have to spend all your time creating them and setting the routing.

[Torea]

Originally Posted by 8875

Normal volume automation will be post-effects yes, so I think the only sensible way would be to have the outputs set to buses. It's a shame the faderport won't work with the gain plugin - are you sure there's no way round it? I haven't used control surfaces so I don't know but perhaps there's something you can do in the environment?... Anyway, if you can't do that, the best thing might be to set yourself up a template with all the buses so at least you don't have to spend all your time creating them and setting the routing.

I haven't had much time to play with it, but when I did a search on Google there was a lot of disappointment on the matter.

Good idea with the template, I've sped up with hotkeys but a template would be even better.

[Torea]

Another question: If that's how it's usually done (volume after effects), what is usually done if/when there's a volume spike in the take? Or if it gets quiet then loud, or if your damn singer won't stop swaying back and forth and side to side? Those level fluctuations affect the effects.

I ask because I've found my tracks (vocals especially) sound so much better when I do some gain control up front, as opposed to when I was using the Logic fader. I guess I really got it in my head that the gain goes up front and now I'm confused

[-tc-]

Originally Posted by Torea

I ask because I've found my tracks (vocals especially) sound so much better when I do some gain control up front, as opposed to when I was using the Logic fader.

Do that then!

It's not at all uncommon to have pre and post effect volume automation. They accomplish different things; both are valid and useful.

[phas3d]

If you have an iPhone or iPad you can get an app like touch Osc to control your plug-ins. V-control is much nicer IMO.

[squirreltrench]

Originally Posted by phas3d

If you have an iPhone or iPad you can get an app like touch Osc to control your plug-ins. V-control is much nicer IMO.

Oh wow, I had never heard of TouchOSC for iPhone/iPad/iWhatever, but most reviewers of it seem to think it's AMAZING. Looks like it would be awesome to use an iPad (or two) as mix controllers! And only $5 even.

[Torea]

Originally Posted by phas3d

If you have an iPhone or iPad you can get an app like touch Osc to control your plug-ins. V-control is much nicer IMO.

Cool apps! But not really what I was looking for. Plugin (effects, comp, EQ, etc) automation I don't do quite as much, so I don't mind using a mouse for those. But level changes I want a physical fader; feels better under the finger, ya know?

I'm sure I'll find a way that sorta works, use it a bunch of times, then realize there was a much much simpler way to do it all along

Keep the ideas coming though. Good for the creative process.

[phas3d]

There are a bunch of controllers out there. If you're going hardware choose one that uses either Eucon from Euphonix or Logic Control Protocol. Those are the ones that give you less headaches in the end. For iPad I already posted examples above (try it before you say you don't like it). I was pleasantly surprised and I own MCU Pro so I know what I'm talking about

[Torea]

I'm not asking for more controllers, I just want ideas on how best to use mine (Faderport) to achieve volume automation. I wouldn't mind have a full board for automation of every little thing, but I do mind them costing every penny I own and my nicest pair of shoes

I like the feel of a physical fader under my finger. iPads and iPhones and trackpads are awesome, and I love them quite a bit, but this is something that I want to be able to feel. I can always tell where my volume is set with the fader, but I have no clue on the iPad. Guess it just doesn't click the same way for me. Now, if I needed plugin automation, I wouldn't mind trying something like that app out (for 5 bucks, why not?). But I have a Faderport and mainly just need volume automation.

[phas3d]

Curious if you have the latest driver for Faderport. Have you installed this?

PreSonus | Downloads - FaderPort

[Torea]

Yep, that was the first one I installed because the CD I got from the guy didn't have drivers on it, just the manual.

[theblue1]

Many DAWs have a trim volume control that can be automated. I don't use Logic but in googling, I see it has some sort of "trim tool"... ("Trim tool for advanced timeline trimming functions.")

In DAWs I'm familiar with, the trim control parallels the channel trim on a mixing board, where one sets optimal gain going into the board to minimize channel self-noise.

In a DAW, of course, there is no channel self-noise, to speak of, so the trim is typically used in order to adjust the gain of a track before it goes to the FX chain, sends, and channel fader. You should be able to automate the trim control in order to make up for varying levels before they hit your FX. This can be particularly helpful in a comped take where each comped section may vary in level, or where a vocalist's distance to the mic varied for some reason (you might also need to automate a bit of EQ to make up for changes in proximity effect from such distance variance).

By removing large, longer time scale variations in level by careful automation of the trim control, you end up with something closer to the ideal take you would have liked to have started with, and smoothing up broad variations in the signal should help get consistent results from your compression down the line.

[Lagerfeldt]

In Logic you can change the gain of a recording in a variety of ways:

1) Destructively lower the gain of the file or an area of a file in the Sample Editor by using the Change Gain function.

2) Lower the gain of a region by dragging or typing in a dB value in the Gain field of the parameter box in the Inspector.

3) Insert a Gain plug-in first in the chain and lower the gain permanently. Use shift to fine tune.

4) Insert a Gain plug-in first in the chain and automate the Gain plug-in by using "Create 4 Nodes at Region Border" on selected regions. Put on a key command for easy access or do it manually by holding down Shift+Ctrl+Option and rubberbanding an area.

5) Automate the input gain or output make-up gain of another suitable plug-in first in the chain.

Then there's post-fader volume automation of course, but all the above are pre-processing.

[theblue1]

Lagerfeldt's the man!


Sounds like automating a gain plugin would be the equivalent of automating trim in other DAWs.

The great thing about plugin architectures is, of course, that they let the user extend the basic platform.

[Lagerfeldt]

One of the benefits of using the Gain plug-in is that you can easily move it around in the plug-in chain and see if the best result is obtained pre or post.

I prefer to correct major changes or errors destructively or pre processing and then see how much post processing volume automation is needed after dynamic compression.

Another tip for automating volume or trimming all gain settings: Hold down the Command button and pull up or down on the yellow bar in the track header column to offset all automation data.

I forgot a 6th way of doing it, which I sometimes use: split your lead vocal on several individual tracks and change the output for all to the same bus. All processing then takes place on the bus, with the level of individual channels acting as output gain into the bus. Can be combined with regular volume automation on the individual channels. Great if you also want to control individual Auto-Tune settings on different parts of the vocal and aren't doing it graphically or using Melodyne.

[WhiteRhino]

Great advice above this, I'd definitely suggest looking at a couple of compressors; they're built to reduce dynamic range, and are often used (lightly) while we record so that there aren't any unexpected volume spikes. Some of the compressors will warm up the sound too, so it can be a fantastic addition DURING recording.
You can always "ride the fader" (my fingers glued to the gain knob if were ever recording outside the studio), but if you're doing lots of volume automation I would suggest learning ProTools at least a bit, its fantastic for mixing and has loads of automation types (they even combine automation types such as touch&latch mode).
Good luck!

[phas3d]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

I forgot a 6th way of doing it, which I sometimes use: split your lead vocal on several individual tracks and change the output for all to the same bus.

I do use it a lot too. Not only for vocals but also for drums and other sections. People should be aware however that you you should double check not only each channel but also the plug-in chain as sometimes one plug-in can output signal too hot for another one's input below it.

[Lagerfeldt]

Another useful feature is that you can have different tracks that use the same audio channel. This is most useful is you change the Logic Preferences > Audio > General > from "Fast" to "CPU-saving". That will make the mute and solo knobs independent on tracks and channel strips, instead of the default linked state.

Regarding overloading plug-ins I covered that in this thread: Guide to Levels in Digital Audio

[phas3d]

I know you're perfectly aware of that, but some might not be. That's why I pointed it out.

I remember once muting a track in the mixer and wondering why that track didn't play for a few before spotting the issue. But that was before they gave you this option of linking them together.

[EastWest Lurker]

The Gain and Direction Mixer are the two most unknown and under-utilized plug-ins, even by many who consider themselves Logic power users.

[phas3d]

And also the enveloper. Precious tool imho...

[Kickflip]

Did you get the Faderport working with plugins in the end? I'm having great results with a BCR using the 'Controller Assignments' window by assigning the control in Learn mode, then changing the Channel Strip dropdown to 'Selected Track'. This then controls the first instance of the plugin on the current track.

Also, give Sonalksis FreeG a try. It's more accurate than the Logic Gain - 0.5db steps is not precise enough imo.