USB midi latency with my MacPro tower

[mirrorboy]

Hi-

The USB midi controllers on a Mac should be class compliant (no driver necessary).

Make sure you're NOT using a USB hub....even if it's powered. This WILL cause latency.

If that's not the issue, try a different MIDI cable / USB cable and report back. Also try a shorter USB cable / MIDI cable.

Remember the USB cable should be plugged into the BACK of the Mac Pro into its own discrete USB port.

No hubs! No powered hubs!

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If all of the above have been tried and it STILL is giving you latency issues, try changing the buffer in your DAW to around 128 or turn on whatever LLM feature your DAW has.

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Hope this helps.

Please report back.

Thx.

Scott

[zeekarone]

I've tried different USB cables, and no I'm not using any hub's or anything like that.

Reducing the latency in the DAW didn't seem to have any affect, and musical typing had the same issue.

HOWEVER! I found an option in Ableton's preferences that seemed to help a good bit. There is still a TINY bit latency, but not nearly as bad as it had been. Under CPU tab of Ableton's preferences, there are two options to turn on: Multicore/Multiprocessor Support and Multicore/Multiprocessor ReWire. The "support" one was already turned on, but I went ahead and turned on "ReWire" and that seemed to improve things quite a bit.

Strange that this seemed to help. ReWire is a tool Ableton uses to so that it can be used as either a slave/master to another DAW or external software instrument via MIDI. I do have other DAWs and audio software on my computer - but not running at the same time. Anyway, I'll report back if it starts to act up again or if it only works in certain instances and not others...

[nst7]

FYI, there is no problem using a controller into a hub, and it does not add latency. Mine works perfectly this way. Whatever problems are going on, it's not because of using a hub.

[mirrorboy]

Originally Posted by nst7

FYI, there is no problem using a controller into a hub, and it does not add latency. Mine works perfectly this way. Whatever problems are going on, it's not because of using a hub.

Hi nst7 -

With all due respect, the content of your post is false, or at least not true for the most part.

That said, I, too, used to think a powered-hub would be no problem so I think it's fair to say it's a relatively common misunderstanding.

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More specifically:

YOU may not have any issues but this happens all the time.

For example, I have a couple MIDI controllers. Well, more than a couple.

I tried hooking up one of my newer-ish controllers, the Axiom Pro 25, to a powered USB hub (a quality one) and then the hub of course into the Mac Pro.

....and guess what? Latency!!!


Also, the MIDI controller was the only thing plugged into the powered hub and the hub went directly to a discrete bus via a USB 2.0 port on the back of my 12 Core Mac Pro, FYI.

I also tried two other MIDI controllers as well as a handful of different USB cables, a different, high-quality powered hub from a different company AND I even bought the optional AC power adapter for the MIDI controller (separate purchase) to see if NOT powering the controller through the USB bus would help (ie not drawing the AC for the MIDI controller from the computer, but rather via the wall...like a lamp or a toaster) !!!

....and guess what? Latency!!!

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Plugged the controller directly into the Mac Pro via USB (discrete 2.0 USB bus on back of tower) whilst unplugging and tossing the powered-hub to the side (ie not using it) and....

....you guessed it: No Latency!!!

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I then called my dealer. He was the one that told me a powered-hub would be fine in the first place.

My dealer then contacted the company that makes the MIDI controller in question (in this case it was Avid / M-Audio). Meanwhile, my Yamahas (P-140, P-90) Aurturia 61, Keystation 88es and others were all acting the exact same way, exhibiting the same, latency-prone behavior thus making them unusable in all cases.

Anyways, my rep quickly got back to me and said that THEY (Avid) said that in SOME cases a powered-hub MAY work, but powered-hubs (or non-powered hubs for that matter) are KNOWN to cause significant latency the majority of the time with the majority of gear.

He then went on to say that using USB hubs (powered or not) w midi controllers is NOT recommended for this very reason.

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Bottom line?

What worked for YOU in this particular instance will NOT work for most people.


Will it work for some? Sure.


Hope that clears things up for the OP and anyone else who comes across this thread.


Cheers,

Scott

[lestermagneto]

I agree with mirror boy, just because you haven't had issues with a hub, well probably means you are lucky. I am surprised the issue you have is not with the laptop, as I have stayed well clear of lion for these issues, Snow Leopard is giving me no problems on my tower, despite the ones I guess everyone deals with.

But hubs suck, I try and use them just for dongles etc. If it is your MAIN controller keyboard, dedicate it's own usb bus. I normally don't have problems with usb hubs, but when I do, and they are finicky b*****s at times, well I don't want to bother.

Mirror Boys advice is dead on.

I actually am more curious about what the hell turning on "rewire" support would do to help this.... has anyone else experienced this? I don't use Reason much anymore, but would clicking this magical box solve latency issues?

[valis]

It depends on the hub, generally speaking you want a MultiTTM hub that lacks USB3 support but otherwise uses a multiTTM chip to provide independent connections (and therefore full speed) per port. It's the USB equivalent to a switch in networking, where most hubs are more like a hub in networking and will slow down to the slowest device's speed.

[mirrorboy]

Originally Posted by lestermagneto

But hubs suck, I try and use them just for dongles etc. If it is your MAIN controller keyboard, dedicate it's own usb bus. I normally don't have problems with usb hubs, but when I do, and they are finicky b*****s at times, well I don't want to bother.

True that. +1000

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I, too, only use powered-hubs for three things. And my powered-hubs (i use two) are always plugged into their own, discrete USB 2.0 bus on the back of the Mac Pro tower.

The three things are:

1. iLok USB key ( x 2 )
2. Steinberg USB key ( x 1 )
3. Wireless Mouse USB sticks ( x 2 )

That's the only type of stuff I use and recommend them for and it's never been anything but flawless.

I definitely don't use them for external hard drives either. Especially bus-powered ones.

And even while SOME external drives that DO have their own AC MAY work sometimes, I still avoid it all together.

Why?

Because it's unpredictable and unstable, ime. For serious work this type of stuff is an easily avoidable problem. We all know there are plenty of potential software issues to deal with as it is in DAW land. And this doesn't have to be one of them.


Cheers!

Scott

P.S. If you ARE going to use a powered-hub then at the very least I STRONGLY recommend getting rid of of any and all non-powered hubs all together....they're useless...even for a single iLok!!! (per Avid)

Also, make sure to use a 4-port powered-hub. Not a 7-port and not some bells and whistles BS hybrid USB / FW hub. Just a simple, powered-hub with exactly 4 ports.

The reason for this is that the seven port hubs are forced to make some of the 7 USB ports into USB v 1.0 ports, rather than 2.0, as well as lower their power draw, which is obviously a nightmare waiting to happen for DAW users.

Lastly, (longest P.S ever haha) Belkin and Macally make quality ones. But you have to make sure you pick the right model.

Feel free to PM me or post back here if you're interested in buying something like this but want to be sure you're buying the right thing first.

Best of luck!

[Warren]

Originally Posted by mirrorboy

True that. +1000

--

I, too, only use powered-hubs for three things. And my powered-hubs (i use two) are always plugged into their own, discrete USB 2.0 bus on the back of the Mac Pro tower.

The three things are:

1. iLok USB key ( x 2 )
2. Steinberg USB key ( x 1 )
3. Wireless Mouse USB sticks ( x 2 )

That's the only type of stuff I use and recommend them for and it's never been anything but flawless.

I definitely don't use them for external hard drives either. Especially bus-powered ones.

And even while SOME external drives that DO have their own AC MAY work sometimes, I still avoid it all together.

Why?

Because it's unpredictable and unstable, ime. For serious work this type of stuff is an easily avoidable problem. We all know there are plenty of potential software issues to deal with as it is in DAW land. And this doesn't have to be one of them.


Cheers!

Scott

P.S. If you ARE going to use a powered-hub then at the very least I STRONGLY recommend getting rid of of any and all non-powered hubs all together....they're useless...even for a single iLok!!! (per Avid)

Also, make sure to use a 4-port powered-hub. Not a 7-port and not some bells and whistles BS hybrid USB / FW hub. Just a simple, powered-hub with exactly 4 ports.

The reason for this is that the seven port hubs are forced to make some of the 7 USB ports into USB v 1.0 ports, rather than 2.0, as well as lower their power draw, which is obviously a nightmare waiting to happen for DAW users.

Lastly, (longest P.S ever haha) Belkin and Macally make quality ones. But you have to make sure you pick the right model.

Feel free to PM me or post back here if you're interested in buying something like this but want to be sure you're buying the right thing first.

Best of luck!

Yep agreed, everything he said and I use a Belkin hub, no problems, gltu