7th August 2012
|
#1 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 671
Thread Starter | 96k vs 48k = total shit sound
I have been doing everything in 96k, without really thinking about it.
When exporting to 48k, I notice a HUGE change in sound. A lot of my drum samples have noticeable clicks/pops, the depth is lost and makes the parts sound out of phase. Reverb has super shrill high end.
What's going on here?
| 
|  | |
7th August 2012
|
#2 | | Moderator
Joined: Dec 2004 Location: in a low orbit
Posts: 21,334
 |
sounds to me something bad happened during exporting.
what SRC did you use?
| |
| | |
7th August 2012
|
#3 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 671
Thread Starter |
It's not just during export though.
Dropping the rate from 96k to 48k, even when listening to the track, changes the sound of the drums. Hi-hat sounds now have a noticeable click/pop on the attack, and the hi-frequency content on the reverb sounds super shrill.
| |
| | |
7th August 2012
|
#4 | | Moderator
Joined: Dec 2004 Location: in a low orbit
Posts: 21,334
|
what SRC do you use?
could it be something silly like your master clock still at 96 KHz while the converter (on internal clock) is doing 48 KHz?
It would really help if you sort of list the relevant components.
Your question reads a bit like:
My car broke.
What kind?
It's a pile of *%)#+@.
etc. 
moved to "music computers" 
__________________ "You must have Chaos within you, to give Birth to a dancing Star" Friedrich Nietsche
For SALE: ATC SCM7 bookshelve passive monitors, Bryston 3B Power Amplifier, Emagic ATM8 & Unitor 8 midi interfaces (16 i/o through USB)  | |
| | |
7th August 2012
|
#5 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 671
Thread Starter |
Using a vermona mono lancet as the sound source for everything.
Drums are run in ableton's sampler.
Everything tracked at 96k on apogee duet.
| |
| | |
7th August 2012
|
#6 | | Moderator
Joined: Dec 2004 Location: in a low orbit
Posts: 21,334
|
ah so it's Ableton's SRC algo?
(SRC sample rate converter)
I read Quote: |
automatic (real-time) Sample Rate Conversion for samples at different sample rates than the session
| perhaps this is what went wrong?
| |
| | |
7th August 2012
|
#7 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,732
|
why would you export to 48 K? just finish your projekt in 96 k and convert the master with a highquality SRC tool. The apple quicktime internal one is not too bad.. better than abletons at least.
| |
| | |
7th August 2012
|
#8 | | Gear addict
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 371
|
also ...
what 'peak' and 'RMS' levels are you at before conversion ?
| |
| | |
7th August 2012
|
#9 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 152
| Quote:
Originally Posted by audioconsult  why would you export to 48 K? just finish your projekt in 96 k and convert the master with a highquality SRC tool. The apple quicktime internal one is not too bad.. better than abletons at least. | I would take it one step forward and suggest sending out the mix for mastering at 96k. your ME should have no problem with doing the conversion.
| |
| | |
7th August 2012
|
#10 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,866
|
If you can, use Izotope for your SRC. One relatively inexpensive program that has it is Wave Editor. Makes a real positive improvement in sound.
__________________
_______________________________________________
Ed Billeaud - Snowflake Studio
___________________________________________
There is no justification for the exploitation of weaker beings. We cannot advance as a species until we respect the rights of other species. One Earth, all earthlings. http://www.soundclick.com/edbilleaud | 
| | |
7th August 2012
|
#11 | | Moderator
Joined: Dec 2004 Location: in a low orbit
Posts: 21,334
| Quote:
Originally Posted by edva If you can, use Izotope for your SRC. One relatively inexpensive program that has it is Wave Editor. Makes a real positive improvement in sound. | 
It's in "Sample Manager" as well. (a batch conversion application)
| |
| | |
8th August 2012
|
#12 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jun 2009 Location: Paris
Posts: 1,457
|
Pitch shifting and time stretching algorithms won't sound the same at 96 and 48, same for some plugins (and the real time SRC is probably at work on all your "non Vermona" samples) so IMO and as others stated, it would be far better to not change the sample rate now the mix is done.
A.
| |
| | |
8th August 2012
|
#13 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Nov 2004 Location: Nashville
Posts: 4,308
|
Your samples...live midi triggering?
Render them to audio. Then change the sample rate. Problem solved. I've had all kinds of weirdness doing the opposite--VI 44.1 libraries up sampling to 96 in real time. One of the reasons it's still best to have a second machine with analog connections. That said, render and the SRC will work fine.
But, why would you do this? Mix/render at the native 96k...and then SRC the stereo file...it will only change the sound in what you lose at 48k playback anyway.
| |
| | |
8th August 2012
|
#14 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Apr 2008 Location: Canada, B.C.
Posts: 1,332
|
I do all my productions at 96k , I just export a 24/96k file from Cubase then do the conversion in wavelab to 16/44k all sounds good on this end .
__________________ The Ultimate Metal Sample Replacement Kit in Trigger and Drumagog format www.invictusaudio.com | |
| | |
8th August 2012
|
#15 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 671
Thread Starter |
Ah, so I'll need to convert everything to audio at 96k, then downsample it to 48k with another program?
| |
| | |
8th August 2012
|
#16 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jun 2009 Location: Paris
Posts: 1,457
| Quote:
Originally Posted by nrvana8775 Ah, so I'll need to convert everything to audio at 96k, then downsample it to 48k with another program? | If you're happy with how the mix is sounding just don't change a thing and export at 96. If you then need a 48kHz file, use your best SRC algorithm to convert the exported file.
A.
Last edited by Andy_bt; 8th August 2012 at 03:42 AM..
Reason: Ableton terminology
| |
| | |
8th August 2012
|
#17 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Nov 2004 Location: Nashville
Posts: 4,308
|
Yeah, it's not file level SRC causing the change to your samples...it's whatever sample player, that's like already doing a real time UPdample to 96(few VIs are recorded at that) and immediately being asked to real time downsampled it. Render it to audio, in the DAW...then you should be able to export anyway you want, because the actual sample player engine is out of the picture.
But, again...I would just export the song as is to 96k...then downsample offline to 48...not sure why you want 48--DVD being 96 capable...and CD being 44.1. But, none of my biz...
| |
| | |
9th August 2012
|
#18 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 671
Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by popmann Yeah, it's not file level SRC causing the change to your samples...it's whatever sample player, that's like already doing a real time UPdample to 96(few VIs are recorded at that) and immediately being asked to real time downsampled it. Render it to audio, in the DAW...then you should be able to export anyway you want, because the actual sample player engine is out of the picture.
But, again...I would just export the song as is to 96k...then downsample offline to 48...not sure why you want 48--DVD being 96 capable...and CD being 44.1. But, none of my biz... | Ha, because I don't know what I'm doing.  | |
| | |
10th August 2012
|
#19 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Nov 2004 Location: Nashville
Posts: 4,308
|
Just mix (export) it at 96k...then do whatever SRC you need to there. 16 bit 44.1khz is redbook CD standard for your final file.
| |
| | |
10th August 2012
|
#20 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Oct 2010 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,641
|
I would also recommend saving the down conversion for the ME
| |
| | |
10th August 2012
|
#21 | | Moderator
Joined: Jun 2006 Location: Sydney via London
Posts: 18,915
| Quote:
Originally Posted by popmann But, again...I would just export the song as is to 96k...then downsample offline to 48...not sure why you want 48--DVD being 96 capable...and CD being 44.1. But, none of my biz... | As a slight tangent, the audio that ends up on DVD for films etc usually starts off at 16bit/48k, and ends up as a DTS or DD stream that's a compressed version of that - essentially, you're listening to a high-ish quality MP3.
Blu-ray comes off a bit a better - in the production stage I was A/Bing the recent Velvet Revolver live DVD...by comparison to the blu-ray, the DVD sounded terrible!
/tangent
| |
| | |
10th August 2012
|
#22 | | Gear addict
Joined: May 2011 Location: north pole
Posts: 338
|
Even if Live's SRC is known not to be the best around, I can't imagine it would damage the sound in such a dramatic way.
Not saying it wouldn't be noticecable but hard clicks, pops etc. sounds a bit weird to me. Maybe if most sounds are hardcore limited
to 0dB and started clipping big time after SRC.
Anyway: As everybody said, it's always best to stay in the SR you're working at and convert later or let the mastering engineer do it.
| |
| | | |
New Reply 
Facebook
Twitter
LinkedIn
