HOLLYWOOD ORCHESTRAL WOODWINDS STATEMENT FROM N and T

[SonicAlchemist]

Originally Posted by Nicholas Phoenix

A statement about Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds:

If Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds does not sound in line with past products
of the series it is because, unlike with prior products, we were only
involved in the production process up until the critical final editing and
programming phase, at which point EW's team took over completely with no
further input from us. We have always been, and still are willing to finish
the Woodwinds for EW in accordance with our original concept, ideas and
design, and in line with the rest of the products in the Hollywood series.
However, despite our continued willingness, EW has refused to allow us to do
so.

All The Best, Nick and Thomas

What should I be looking for specifically in the demos and/or implementation to determine if Hollywood Winds is inferior to the other offerings in the line, which are excellent?

are they sonic in nature, or workflow related? maybe stability?

[blackcom]

Originally Posted by Nicholas Phoenix

A statement about Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds:

If Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds does not sound in line with past products
of the series it is because, unlike with prior products, we were only
involved in the production process up until the critical final editing and
programming phase, at which point EW's team took over completely with no
further input from us. We have always been, and still are willing to finish
the Woodwinds for EW in accordance with our original concept, ideas and
design, and in line with the rest of the products in the Hollywood series.
However, despite our continued willingness, EW has refused to allow us to do
so.

All The Best, Nick and Thomas

I thougt you guyes was part of EW, whats happening here?

[Jackle]

Originally Posted by Nicholas Phoenix

A statement about Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds:

If Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds does not sound in line with past products
of the series it is because, unlike with prior products, we were only
involved in the production process up until the critical final editing and
programming phase, at which point EW's team took over completely with no
further input from us. We have always been, and still are willing to finish
the Woodwinds for EW in accordance with our original concept, ideas and
design, and in line with the rest of the products in the Hollywood series.
However, despite our continued willingness, EW has refused to allow us to do
so.

All The Best, Nick and Thomas

Apparently, people tried to ask questions about that on the EW forum but everything was removed within few hours without any explaination.
Admin keep editing the entire forum in order to prevent any leak of information about that subject.
I'm really concerned about that because until recently, you could clearely read on the EW forum that both Nick and Thomas were involved on the HOW project just as the other Hollywood Series.
They actually used this argument to convince me and others in the first place. They deliberatly lied to us, and they still try to hide it by deleting entire thread of anxious people's questions.

@Nick & Thomas : Out of curiosity, did you try to post on the EW forum to inform the users about this scam ?

[Tui]

More EW oddness...

Anyway, I would like to take the opportunity to thank Nicholas Phoenix for creating Spaces reverb. What a fine job you did.

[Ghosted]

Originally Posted by Nicholas Phoenix

A statement about Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds:

If Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds does not sound in line with past products
of the series it is because, unlike with prior products, we were only
involved in the production process up until the critical final editing and
programming phase, at which point EW's team took over completely with no
further input from us. We have always been, and still are willing to finish
the Woodwinds for EW in accordance with our original concept, ideas and
design, and in line with the rest of the products in the Hollywood series.
However, despite our continued willingness, EW has refused to allow us to do
so.

All The Best, Nick and Thomas

Nick! I just want to say your libraries are the best I've ever used. Why did they cut you out of the critical programming process? Did they really think they could find someone better? Was it because they found some kids to do it cheaper?

You guys basically made that company as popular as it is today, and I hate to see you get jacked around.

[Phil777]

This is unbelievable, what a shame...
People should spam their forum to reveal the truth.

@Nick: Thanks for all the work you've done.
What happened exactly ? Aren't you upset they misslead people to think that you and Thomas worked on HW as you did on HB and HS ?

[Hint]

Originally Posted by Tui

More EW oddness...

Indeed... and, as is traditional for any EW-controversy-themed Gearslutz thread, we have a nice little collection of first time posters all pushing a common agenda.

[sbackdoor]

Yeah same old first posters BS! Lame. Typically EW again.

[mixmixmix]

That's what happens when you get money from devil

[synsongs]

German music magazine "Releasetime" (Veränderungen bei EastWest › Releasetime News) has posted some background infos, implicating that the problem started when EastWest did no longer accept their NFR versions to be used commercially (which Nick seemed to have wanted).

I understand that such a change is not welcome for those who have received NFR copies, but on the other hand, many other companies seem to think along the same line. NI for instance also has this paragraph in their license agreement:
<snip... provided to you as NFR (Not For Resale) may be used for demonstration, testing and evaluation purposes only. </snip>

IMO if this is really all about "NFR copies" (which I don´t know of course) then it would seem bit unfair of Nick & Thomas to only post "half" of the story. IMO every company must make money and if they decide to take a different approach now and in the future in order to secure their business, it´s should be accepted. Also it´s up to the testers etc. if they still want to continue (given they cannot use the products commercially) or not.

[arrowood101]

Filter Fish is that you?

At least East West reps figured out how not to have their Vcard show. 2 posters in an East West thread, with only 1 post and no contact info, seems fishy.


East West PLAY gripes

[Nicholas Phoenix]

This is Nicholas Phoenix just as the name says. I am no longer affiliated with East West, so I wanted to be clear about it.

[devastat]

Hey Nick, really sad to hear you are not with EW anymore. I really wish you and TJ would be involved in finishing the Hollywood Series. I wish you all the best of luck in your future ventures (and can't wait for the next TSFH album). I really hope that you keep developing more sample libraries AND QL Spaces (the best reverb plugin there is). All the best.

[Jeff Hayat]

Originally Posted by Jackle

They deliberatly lied to us...

They lied about what, exactly?

[Ghosted]

All I have to say is don't **** with Nick. He has enough talent to start his own company without you.

[Ivorydom]

That's shocking news for me if hey are for real. Nick and Thomas were always the heart and driving force of Eastwest for the users. :(

[GearNerd]

PLAY still sucks!

[devastat]

I will miss the "Hello, this is Nick Phoenix" videos..

[Jackle]

Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat

They lied about what, exactly?

About the fact that Tom & Nick were involve the same way on HOW, they were on the previous Hollywood series.

Why do you think all the posts about that story were either deleted or modified from the EW forum ?

[Jeff Hayat]

Originally Posted by Jackle

About the fact that Tom & Nick were involve the same way on HOW, they were on the previous Hollywood series.

They never said that Tom & Nick were involved the same way on HOW. TJ & Nick were involved in the production and recording process - so if EW said that (which I am sure at some point they did) - that is not a lie.

EW never said TJ & Nick were involved in the editing and programming process - no lie there. In fact, TJ & Nick are not listed on the HOW box/banner. So, no lie there either.

Cheers.

[Phil777]

Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat

They never said that Tom & Nick were involved the same way on HOW. TJ & Nick were involved in the production and recording process - so if EW said that (which I am sure at some point they did) - that is not a lie.

EW never said TJ & Nick were involved in the editing and programming process - no lie there. In fact, TJ & Nick are not listed on the HOW box/banner. So, no lie there either.

Cheers.

Maybe you're working for EW :p

I noted myself they delete everything that lead to understand what was the real job on NP and TB on HOW. Not lying directly doesn't mean not lying.

If you don't believe me try by yourself to make a thread about NP and TB real involvment on HOW, you'll be fixed.

[donethur]

The thing is simple: there are people who bought the product (preorder) before the news and before they knew that Nick and Thomas didnt work in the most important part of the process. They bought it blind because they trusted in the persons who achieved Hollywood Strings and Brass results, so that is not fair for them IMO if they are not satisfied with the final result.

[Jeff Hayat]

Originally Posted by Phil777

Maybe you're working for EW :p

I do not work for EW. Never have.

Yes, they have deleted all of the threads regarding Nick and TJ. Still don't see where they lied.

[Phil777]

Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat

I do not work for EW. Never have.

Yes, they have deleted all of the threads regarding Nick and TJ. Still don't see where they lied.

Threads and posts and even their own answers.
What don't you get ?
When you deliberately hide facts from people, that's lie.
When you are deliberately unclear with what you say to make people think something that you know false, that's a lie.
And when you prevent people to reveal your lie, it's another lie.

[Jeff Hayat]

Originally Posted by Phil777

What don't you get ?

I don't get the bashing and the deliberate innacuracies. That is what I don't get.

When you deliberately hide facts from people, that's lie.

They deliberately hid the fact that Nick & TJ were not associated with EW any longer - yes. But they never said that Nick and TJ were involved in the latter stages of HOW's production. You want to call that a lie? Sure, go ahead. It's not, but you are entitled to call it a lie if you so choose. Saying they were involved when they weren't - that is a lie. Not saying anything either which way, and removing Nick and TJ from the HOW banner is not. You seem to keep forgetting that underlined part.

When you are deliberately unclear with what you say to make people think something that you know false, that's a lie

Ok, that I can kind of understand where you are coming from. They were deliberately unclear - ok, I will buy that. You could even effectively argue that they should have said something like, "oh by the way - Nick and TJ were only involved up until x-point." But do you really think that EW was trying to make people think that Nick and TJ were involved when they weren't? That I don't buy.

Cheers.

[Phil777]

We don't have the same conception about what is a "lie" Jeff Hayat.
For you it seems that a lie is about words said or not, for me it's the intention to cheat with facts.

Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat

But do you really think that EW was trying to make people think that Nick and TJ were involved when they weren't

Yes, definitely, it's so obvious.
If not why constantly deleting everything related to NP and TB?

[Carles]

Hi there,
Is not a matter of terminology what's being discussed here but the fact that something "dark" happened. In my opinion that's a lack of ethic, call it as you want.

I was one of those who pre-ordered trusting that Woodwinds was produced by the same people than two of the libraries I own, HS and HB.

Because of the release delay did a google search to find more and found the thread about HWW in their forum and followed it.
I didn't liked how they handled such a premature release, offering false information, avoiding specific questions and after all ignoring not only potential customers but also those who already put the money in their hands.
Was quite ridiculous and ever humiliating to me see the users begging for any information about (not a single demo, or walkthrough, or manual or even almost no answers... while they ignoring "the mass", just like Gods, just pathetic).

After someone asked if anybody got already the product (since they said that was already being released but nobody got it, and I consider that a lie) they just closed the thread. That's a bit stinky to me.

Once in the forum I've read other posts and answered to a user, explaining a deficiency in one of the products he was asking for, of course in a polite way and also mentioning the good side of that product.

My post got -CENSURED- so in base to what I've found later in other forums plus my own experiences seems that if your posts there are not kind of "EW are the very best ever, and I'm truly fascinated with everything you produce"... they just get deleted.

It makes me think that the forum itself it's just a big lie as it is not impartial but just a manipulated tool for better selling their products.

Well, they are free to do that of course, it's their forum, as well as I was free to cancel my order and get Berlin Wood Winds instead (way better btw) and also free to don't buy any of their products anymore.

Regarding Nick and Thomas, I think you guys should produce Kontakt based libraries, alone or in partnership with anyone more open minded and better ethics than EW.

Would be truly a pleasure to enjoy an "updated HollywoodStrings-like" (or HB) running under Kontakt.

Please think about, with your previous experience in both libraries you could easily improve these. Would be a good starting point for your new adventures.

Cheers,
Carles

[Hint]

Originally Posted by Carles

It makes me think that the forum itself it's just a big lie as it is not impartial but just a manipulated tool for better selling their products.

EW are notorious for that kind of behaviour. It's nothing new.

But let's not forget that Nick Phoenix was a willing participant in that machine not so long ago and has history of being directly involved in equally peculiar behaviour right here on Gearslutz. You should perhaps bear that in mind before blindly following him to whichever new venture he sets up.

[Ivorydom]

Originally Posted by Carles

Regarding Nick and Thomas, I think you guys should produce Kontakt based libraries, alone or in partnership with anyone more open minded and better ethics than EW.

+1

Play is still nothing as stable and efficient as Kontakt. Although I love EW libraries, PLAY is still a necessary burden in order to run those libraries.